Spark Plugs and Wires

Justwondering

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My Silverado (2000 4x4 gas) was stumbling up hills this past weekend and couldn't get enough compression to back up an empty gooseneck trailer. Very embarrassing.

When I got home after my 4 hour drive, I stopped in the city and bought 8 new spark plugs on the way.

Today after I finally got the chrysler home, I watched and read some info and then started the spark plug exchange.

Here's my situation:
1. First spark plug looks like the center metal (electrode?) is completely flat. Nothing is black, but everything is oxidized and brownish. Definitely doesn't look like the new one. Was able to get the wire off by hand.
Old one out, new one in. 7 minutes

2. Second spark plug looks like more of the center metal (electrode) is present but it looks more like a nipple than the new one does. Is not black, everything is brownish. Was difficult to get the wire off. Lots of twisting and had to resort to vice grips to finally wiggle it off.
Old one out, new one in. 12 minutes

3. Third spark plug was horrible to get the wire off. I think I broke the wire. There was a black plastic bit about 2 inches long with some rounded metal on it that was left on the spark plug when I finally got the wire off. It is not black, everything is brownish. It had the most metal left of the center metal (electrode).

These are the spark plugs on the passenger side going from the front of the engine towards the back.

Lost my daylight at that point and the other 5 will be done tomorrow.

My questions:
1. Is is normal to break the wire to get it off the plug?
2. Should I just plan to replace all the wires as well?
3. The wires plug in to the plug at the bottom and a square box at the top (coil?). Should I replace all the coils as well?
4. Do I use a torque wrench and tighten them to 20 pounds or 'just a little more after I hand tighten them'?
5. My special socket for spark plugs was way too big a diameter for use so I used a regular deep socket. Is that okay or does it harm the spark plug since it does not have the rubber insert?
 

Justwondering

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And my last questions:
I bought the spark plugs based on their cost. They were halfway between the highest and lowest. Was that okay?

Also, since I've broken 1 wire and it definitely looks likes issues, should I replace all wires?

If I replace wires, a set of them (8) can be 50 bucks up to 100 bucks. How do you decide which ones to get?
 

Justwondering

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Part of my problem was ignorance.
Part of my problem was the boots were seized on.

Apparently these are the original wires. Dad doesn't remember ever changing anything. Says 'always ran fine for me. only started having problems after I gave it to you' somehow implying I was the cause. Sigh.

Maintenance has never been his strong suit and I was too ignorant (unknowlegeable) to know what I shoud have been doing.

But that is in the past.

The passenger side took me nearly 2 hours to get all the boots and plug wires off the spark plugs and to get the plugs out.

I had two boots that were seized on the truck and one wire that was seized on the plug. One plug broke on its way out (thank goodness). All the plugs had very little center electrode left.

On the drivers side this morning, I had all boots off and all plugs removed in a little over 8 minutes. More room to work in the engine bay and nothing was seized up. Every sparkplug center electrode was worn to a nubbin.

I was able to get the driver side plugs in and torqued to 20 pound before the rain started. So I'll take this time to head in to the city to get a new plug set.

I'm thinking I just need the truck running again to get it in to mechanic to fix the heater hose problem from the weekend. He has the specialty tool to remove and replace the plastic spouts/nipples that the hoses connect to in the firewall.

Pictures later. Gotta get this done inbetween rain downpours.
 

Justwondering

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I should have done the anti-seize but I didn't think of it while I was in town and couldn't bring myself to drive another 50 miles for it.

However:
I did get all the wires off.
I moved all the boot coverings over.
The new plug ends are a little longer than the older ones, but everything went back together.
I put dielectric grease on both ends before I put the wires on.

Oh my goodness how much better it runs.
And the natural high as I test drove it 8 miles up and down hills. No stumbling. It backed without failing.

And a side benefit, at least on this first run, neither of the brake idiot lights came on. (abs or towing).

I really appreciate all the advice. This was a major success.
 

Aspen500

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Actually, anti seize isn't recommended for plugs if they have plated threads (either silver colored or black). If you do use anti-seize, use it sparingly and avoid getting any of it on the electrodes and especially on the insulator.
Main reason plugs gets stuck, unless they've been in there for a million years in a salt state, is over torquing. Depending on the head material (iron or alloy) and gasket or taper seat, the torque specs are generally between 9 and 20 ft lbs. Basically, not all that much. Especially in alloy heads, over torquing will roll the threads and the next time someone tries to remove them,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they either come out very hard all the way or take the threads out of the head. Then you have to install an insert.


Now that class is over :D ,,,,good news the truck runs like a champ again!

............and to make myself feel like an idiot,,,,the plugs in my '96 Dakota are stuck. I didn't realize they'd been in there so long. Looked in my notebook and I changed them in 2003 at 87,000 miles. It now has 155,000. Ooops. It runs fine, doesn't misfire or anything else like that and they are Motorcraft platinum so run 'em and leave well enough alone :p
 

brotherGood

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I need to look into plugs in my truck..it's not running poorly, just I'm not sure when its been done last
 

Justwondering

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This was a big learning experience for me.
First, I should have done just basic maintenance and assumed that nothing had been done to it as it should have been done.
Second, I should have bought plug wires when I bought the plugs.
Third, I should get that dang diary for each vehicle and keep track of what, when, and where things happened and maintenance was done.

Its like I have a new truck the way it runs now.
 

old yellow 78

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Although it sounds like it was a PIA, at least you can change the plugs in your truck yourself. I wouldn't dare touch the plugs in my '00 F150. It has that 5.4 Triton whatever V8 in it, and the plugs are anchored into the block with only a few threads, and they are notorious for stripping out when changing plugs. The only time the plugs get changed in that truck is when the stupid coils on each plug burn out and then I have the local shop assume the risk of stripping them.
 

Aspen500

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Have repaired many a Ford 4.6/5.4 spark plug hole. You want some REAL fun, try changing plugs on the newer 3 valve 5.4L. You WILL break off at least one trying to get them out. More likely it'll be more than one. Worst plug and head design EVER. In fact, we've got a kit made specifically for those engines to extract the broken plugs. For that matter, we also have a kit made specifically for repairing the threads on the 2 valve engines with an insert.

In the glove box of my Dakota is a little notebook that has every single thing I've ever done to the truck with the date and miles since buying it in 1998. How I missed seeing it's been so long since changing the plugs I'll never know. Since it's life expectancy is getting shorter by the month due to the rust, I'm not too concerned about the plugs. Was bound to happen (the rot), it just turned 21 years old a couple weeks ago and it's lived 19 of those in Wisconsin and it's first two years of life in Chicago. Actually, it's lived a lot longer than 95% of daily driven Wisconsin vehicles it's age.
 

Justwondering

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Here's what my old spark plugs looked like.
IMG_5516.jpg

IMG_5515.jpg
Tried to get them so you could see each bank.
I did break one getting it out.

There is so little center electrode that I'm amazed the truck would run.

After the change, runs like a champ.
 

Aspen500

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Those are platinum tip plugs and the center electrode is supposed to look like that although, those are worn some. You should see the iridium plugs some vehicles take. The center electrode is about the size of a sewing pin.

I can spot what was most likely the main problem and that's the carbon arcing on the insulators (the black lines). That's most often caused by bad plug wires that "leak" and the electricity bypasses the plug and travels down the insulator to ground on the plug body. Always remember, electricity is like some people, it always takes the path of least resistance:D

Platinum plug:
plug platinum.jpg


Iridium plug:
plug iridium.jpg
 
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Justwondering

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So while its possible the plugs were okay and I only needed wires, the wise decision was new plugs and new wires?

I didn't go with anything expensive or exotic because this was a guess on my part to solve the problem. I figured if it worked out, then in a couple of years or 50,000 miles, I'd do it again.

The 2000 silverado 2500 has traveled a little over 239,000 miles. I wasn't sure how much longer it would normally survive which is why I did middle of the road solution.
 

Justwondering

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Brothergood -
I went with NGK v-power TR5 2238, selected because the cost was halfway between the cheapest and the most expensive. I had blown the heater hose about 300 miles earlier (broke the nipple off the firewall) and was tired from the drive. All I know about spark plugs I just learned from this thread after the fact.

But I don't remember the name of the wires. I think it was something like Duralast Gold or maybe the house brand of similar type at O'reillys. Again, I went with something in between the least and most expensive. All I know about wires is get them to match your coils- round or square.

You should have seen the counter guys expression when I told them I'd never seen square wires and would prefer round ones. They looked at each other and rolled their eyes like I was a dumb blonde. It was funny. Of course, once they explained about the coils I changed my mind since my coil packs are square.

TMI - but there you go.
 

Justwondering

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Followup on the Silverado.
New heater hoses installed by the mechanic on Tuesday.
Wed I order new shoes for the rear and move those on the rear to the front.

Should free up some tires for use on the old equipment my brother purchased.

I swear, its gonna be quite a weird feeling having a vehicle that doesn't need some major repair.
 

Aspen500

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Always a god idea to change the spark plugs with the wires, especially if you find the problem is caused by a bad wire or wires.
Biggest killer of plug wires (or now days, coils) is bad spark plugs. It all goes back to that path of least resistance thing.
 

BudW

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Third, I should get that dang diary for each vehicle and keep track of what, when, and where things
Very good advice.
Writting down part numbers, etc, might also be something to consider.

Sometimes parts fail, and most car parts nowadays come with 12 month warranty, so keeping track of that information – for warranty purposes, and sometimes keeping the receipts is a good thing (like battery’s), for example.


One thing you didn’t mention is how many miles are on the truck (or if you said, I missed it).


For FMJ’s, the spark plugs (and sometimes, wires) generally last about 30k miles (using normal plugs).

We can be here all day debating the newer spark plugs and such – so I won’t cross that bridge today, but the parts, as our cars originally equipped, plugs and wires generally every 30k miles.

The material the spark plug is made of, steel, copper, platinum, Iridium, etc. and design, split fire, etc. – do make a difference in many cases.

For a stock vehicle, made in ’70-80’s, the oil consumption our cars have can normally foul out a more expensive plug – so I’m a bit hesitant to recommend one (not saying not to).
On today’s cars, the engine oil consumption is much tighter, and in those cases the more expensive plugs excel.
On many rebuilds or a lot of our engines which are rebuilt to better/higher tolerances - then the more expensive plugs I think can excel, as well.

My ’86 5th is not wore out but does use some oil (leaks it mostly) – I can’t justify the cost, for I believe I will still have to change plugs and wires every 30k miles – do to normal wear/tear and oil fouling.
If anyone disagrees, let’s take this to another thread (please).

Your questions:
1. Is it normal to break the wire to get it off the plug?
2. Should I just plan to replace all the wires as well?
3. The wires plug in to the plug at the bottom and a square box at the top (coil?). Should I replace all the coils as well?
4. Do I use a torque wrench and tighten them to 20 pounds or 'just a little more after I hand tighten them'?
5. My special socket for spark plugs was way too big a diameter for use so I used a regular deep socket. Is that okay or does it harm the spark plug since it does not have the rubber insert?


1. No, but it does happen. A plug wire that moves a lot, rubs against something, gets manhandled a lot and or gets oil/chemical contaminated – will do that.
What I think happened here, is the lack of anything between boot and plug (dielectric grease) and possible a lot of heat (overheat?) can/will make boots stick – especially on vehicles that have to replace plugs longer than every 30k miles.
I have seen spark plug wires melted onto spark plugs, before, from overheating.

2. This varies and depends on status of your existing wires. What I recommend to do before purchasing wires, is to (at night or in a dark location) take a water spray bottle and mist the plug wires while engine is in operation. If you see any arcing anywhere – then change them.
If you have an engine that won’t rust in a long time, due to oil leaks (like my 5th), then plug wires every 30k miles might be recommended (due to oil contamination/breakdown of wires).
Spark plug wires have improved over 40 years.

3. Ignition coils do not go out that often. On your pickup, the check engine light will come on in advent of a bad ignition coil. Today’s computers test them and keeps track of coil performance while normal driving.

4. On your newer vehicles, I would recommend to always use a torque wrench, especially of you have aluminum cylinder heads. I don’t think it matters a lot on your Chrysler. Too loose, the plug will come out. Too tight and using cheap plugs, the spark plug may break. Extracting a broken spark plug is NOT FUN, but a lot easier on your 318 than it is on a lot of other vehicles.

5. If you plan on keeping the pickup for a while, it would be best to get the official spark plug wrench/socket for it. The rubber insert is to A, hold plug in place when held upside down (doesn’t work every time) and B, to prevent damage to plug. A regular socket can work in a pinch – just need to keep in mind, they put the insert in for a reason. Yes, I have broken a few plugs using sockets without inserts.


An Indian rope trick I learned, dealing with spark plugs.
Take a short piece of vacuum hose that fill fit over the end of spark plug. Thread the spark plug in using the vacuum hose. You will not be able to damage the cylinder head or spark plug that way.
Really handy on plugs recessed, like Hemi’s, /6’s, Ford V8’s, etc.
 
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