904 third gear flare

charlesvolare

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If I remember correctly were you manipulating the kick down linkage or not using it?

I'm sure you know this already but, the throttle valve lever should be to it's rear stop when the throttle plate is wide open as far as it will go. Ideally they should both hit their limit at exactly the same time.

I only started messing with the kickdown after it started having a problem from 2 to 3. But for most of that transmission's life, the throttle cable was hooked up using a bracket I made, which didn't allow full throttle (I have ended up with a lokar throttle cable, works perfectly). I don't know how much of a problem that could've caused when adjusting it but I'm just throwing that out there.

If you have the clearance you might want to look at the deeper pans and a cooler. Many of them offered are used and a bargain. And an extra quart or so of fluid. You may already have these items. Can't tell from the photos.

Another thing: I have rubber hose for the cooler lines running into the radiator cooler, connected to about 2" of hardline from the trans to get them pointed in the right direction and then running along the framerail and up under the brakebooster along the fender to the front. This may not even have been the case, but after I got the trans out and I was moving the lines and speedo and everything to put the car down and roll it, I noticed one of the cooler lines might have had a slight kink in it. However this may be completely because of the way I pushed the line up after I unhooked it. Just another thing I noticed.
 

BudW

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All Chrysler vehicles had solid transmission cooler lines from transmission to transmission – until 1982ish. I don’t remember what year, but Chrysler changed from full metal lines to mostly-full metal lines, with a pair of 3-inch pieces of hose to the radiator. They found out that a vibrating powertrain attached to a fixed radiator = cracked metal line sooner or later.

Cooler line cracks dropped to almost nothing after that change.
Now with that said: rubber hose and vehicles with lockup converters = leaks at the hose, and there is not much you can do about it. With lockup converter engaged, the converter line pressure can be about 80 psi vs. 6-10 psi on non-lockup converter transmissions.

I have installed a piece of hose on transmission cooler lines (to bypass the radiator), all the time, for testing, for moving a vehicle in/out of shop and for various other reasons. When the car is ready to hit the road, then I don’t recommend a hose bypass - except on an emergency bases (stuck on side of road, or whatever).

Hose kinks are hard to measure. A minor restriction won’t be noticed. A full kink and when lockup clutch is engaged – the transmission will blow the kinked hose right off the car and a huge mess will take its place.
BudW
 

BudW

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Also, look closely to cooler line routing, after all is said and done.
There should not be any location . . . Repeat, there should not be any location, where lines rub each other or rub ANY THING ELSE.
Cooler line rub-throughs are just as common as cooler line cracks are.
BudW
 

Poly

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I only started messing with the kickdown after it started having a problem from 2 to 3. But for most of that transmission's life, the throttle cable was hooked up using a bracket I made, which didn't allow full throttle (I have ended up with a lokar throttle cable, works perfectly). I don't know how much of a problem that could've caused when adjusting it but I'm just throwing that out there.



Another thing: I have rubber hose for the cooler lines running into the radiator cooler, connected to about 2" of hardline from the trans to get them pointed in the right direction and then running along the framerail and up under the brakebooster along the fender to the front. This may not even have been the case, but after I got the trans out and I was moving the lines and speedo and everything to put the car down and roll it, I noticed one of the cooler lines might have had a slight kink in it. However this may be completely because of the way I pushed the line up after I unhooked it. Just another thing I noticed.



That's good to hear your satisfied with the lokar set-up. Can't say positively but I think we were just having a side-chat about the linkages while waiting for your results. Everyone's mega patient around here, I find.

Ah...the hose routing is elevated then over into the radiator. I'm impressed with the schedule you keep on geting things looked at.
 

Aspen500

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I've got a cable set up from Bouchillon Performance. It's basically a factory Mopar piece with a couple different brackets. Bought it back when they were the only game in town for something like this (around 1994 or so). I have never had a single complaint with it. Linkage isn't really an option (big block). Previous to that I had a homemade vacuum operated "kick-down" using an old vacuum cruise servo off a GM (sorry) and a cable to the trans, along with a couple brackets and a bell crank. It actually worked darn good after trial and error with return springs on the trans lever and hole location on the bell crank. More vacuum, less pressure. Lower vacuum, more pressure. But I digress.
 

charlesvolare

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I picked up another 904 today. It was only $80 and a 7 hour round trip lol. The deal was the guy has a shop and works on other people's cars on the side (very cool guy, wish I was closer, seemed like a lot of cool projects) and a guy wanted him to swap the 904 with an overdrive trans and just let him keep the 904. It then sat in his shop for a few years and he just decided he needed to get rid of it. But he told me the vehicle it came out of apparently was a 450 hp 12 second Dakota that drove into the shop to get it swapped out and that's all he knew. Got it home and opened it up. Looks basically brand new to me, very clean on the inside, though surprisingly dirty on the outside. I think it has a tci trans-scat kit because I also found a accumulator blocker rod and that's the only kit I've found d so far that looks like it would be it, but I'm still doing some research.

And if anyone has any tips on getting the broken cooler line fitting out it would be much appreciated.

I went to get it thinking at the very least it can go in the car for the winter until I get mine built again

IMG_20181020_194157.jpg


Snapchat-923199749.jpg
 

Oldiron440

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Yep that's what I was thinking before I even saw the picture.
 

Aspen500

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Like they said, it shouldn't be hard to get out. It's a brass fitting screwed into aluminum so corrosion isn't really an issue.

Depending on what your car is used for, the blocked accumulator could make the shift way to harsh. I had a Barracuda with a blocked accumulator (waaaay back in the early '80's) and it got to be annoying. No matter the throttle position, the 1-2 shift would chirp the tires and snap your neck every time. Just an FYI.
 

Poly

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Shifting that hard at any RPM is also really hard on flex plates, u-joints, and axles. Ask me how I know.

The main reason Gramps would only give Gram a six with three-on-the-tree. The poor guy was always repairing someone's fence along the highway they lived on.
 

Poly

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I picked up another 904 today. It was only $80 and a 7 hour round trip lol. The deal was the guy has a shop and works on other people's cars on the side (very cool guy, wish I was closer, seemed like a lot of cool projects) and a guy wanted him to swap the 904 with an overdrive trans and just let him keep the 904. It then sat in his shop for a few years and he just decided he needed to get rid of it. But he told me the vehicle it came out of apparently was a 450 hp 12 second Dakota that drove into the shop to get it swapped out and that's all he knew. Got it home and opened it up. Looks basically brand new to me, very clean on the inside, though surprisingly dirty on the outside. I think it has a tci trans-scat kit because I also found a accumulator blocker rod and that's the only kit I've found d so far that looks like it would be it, but I'm still doing some research.

And if anyone has any tips on getting the broken cooler line fitting out it would be much appreciated.

I went to get it thinking at the very least it can go in the car for the winter until I get mine built again

View attachment 31882

View attachment 31883

Things are looking up. That's a deal !
 

charlesvolare

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Depending on what your car is used for, the blocked accumulator could make the shift way to harsh. I had a Barracuda with a blocked accumulator (waaaay back in the early '80's) and it got to be annoying. No matter the throttle position, the 1-2 shift would chirp the tires and snap your neck every time. Just an FYI.

So would it be okay to just take the blocking rod out? Would there be anything else to do to reverse that?
 

BudW

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There is a small problem with using existing “easy-outs” aka “hard-outs”, which is metal shavings.
Metal shavings and automatic transmissions are a bad mix – so the trick is extract the broken fitting without producing any metal fragments OR to take it apart and clean everything well, then go back together.

A set I used a lot, was splined shaft extractors. The shaft just barely fit into the fitting. You took a hammer to pound the shaft into the hole. You then had a splined nut (or cap) that slid on and you twisted the whole thing out.
In most cases – it took about 5 minutes to remove. It takes another 10 minutes to remove the broken piece off your splined shaft, for the next job. I hadn’t seen one of these in a long time (but not looked for one, either).

These extractors are close and look like may work as well:
400.jpg

35685_large.jpg

Splined
315mr3bGefL.jpg

Square
p30227_3.jpg


After breaking a few fittings (decades ago), I have gotten to point to make sure the cooler lines are removed from transmission first – using two wrenches. Also to protect them from damage.
These are not fun to extract in-car.


PK4058398 8574 4903
“PK” Kokomo, Indiana transmission plant
“4058398” transmission part number
’81-85 J, M & R-body 318 A999 HD w/lockup.
Also fit ’81-85 Dodge pickup and vans (2*4).
“8574” Build date = Thursday, January 17, 1985
4,903th transmission built that day (must have been a busy day?).
It is a good transmission to have.

I found a accumulator blocker rod and that's the only kit I've found d so far that looks like it would be it
Direct Connection/Mopar Performance sold a transmission shift kit used a thin piece of pipe to replace the accumulator spring with – which I think you are referring too.

You need a spring in there – if you are going to remove that blocker rod.
The stiffer the spring, the faster the shift (and softer the spring, the slower the shift – which is how most new cars are made).
No spring = really soft shift (takes a long time to fill that much space – which occurs before shift takes place).
The rod in place = a neck jar on every 1-2 shift, regardless of throttle petal position (which some people like . . .).
Any A904/A998/A999/A500 Accumulator spring will work. I "think" the A727/A518 spring is too large in diameter to work.
BudW
 

charlesvolare

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I've had the new tranny in for a few weeks now and finally got around to replacing the leaking brake booster and getting the carb tuned in and everything adjusted nice. I'm about 85% sure it's got a tci scat shift kit in it, and I left the accumulator rod in it, just so I wouldn't mess anything up not knowing what all was there, thinking I could go back and change it later if it was too harsh. It shifts great, super firm but no broken necks... yet . I can get the kickdown adjustment set good for everything except full throttle... when in second gear at lowish rpm, flooring it won't downshift but pulling the shifter down will and chirp tires upshifting. I need to get on the highway to really see about 3-2 but it seems okay.

If I slow down enough in D for it to downshift into first and then floor it, it'll break a tire lose a keep spinning it through the gears until I let off, no early upshifts or anything.

Here's a video:

I kept it floored, just pulled down the shifter.
I hope to get to the last test and tune next weekend and getting some better feeling of it.

Here's the slack at wot, good shifting at regular throttle. Would a different length lever arm help? Or is that just this shift kit?

IMG_20181117_145945.jpg
 

BudW

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Most “non-Chrysler/Mopar” carburetors have a different opinion as to where to put the throttle cable at/kickdown linkage at – when comparing them to a clock position.
Clock.jpg


GM has the throttle cable stud located at a 10:30 O’clock position (between 9 to 12 O’clock position) when at rest and WOT (Wide Open Throttle) 1:30 O’clock position.

Chrysler has their throttle stud located at the 11:30 O’clock position (almost straight up, but not quite) when at rest and at 2:30 O’clock when at WOT. These angles do not sound that much difference – but it makes a huge difference to the transmission kickdown as well as the “rate” of throttle opening and so forth.

Here is an example, from another forum member, who had a similar problem:
Throttle Holley mod.jpg

(it is hard to tell, but this is at the 10:30 o'clock position)

Holley (and others) have an adaptor to bolt onto the carburetor shaft to fix these issues. Holley part number 20-7 – but there are others out there, as well.
Holley 20-7.jpg


Look at your carburetor at rest and at WOT and see if it looks more like 10:30 to 1:30, or more like 11:30 to 2:30 o’clock.
If at 10:30 to 1:30 – then I think fixing that (with a bolt on bracket) will fix a few problems (and then re-test).
BudW
 

Aspen500

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I hadn't noticed the throttle lever. You definitely need a Chrysler adapter lever on your carb. Most aftermarket carbs have the lever set up for a GM and require an adapter for Chrysler or Ford.


As BudW explained, I think if you get the lever, your problems will be solved. This is the cable set up on my car with the adapter. It's a Summit carb, not Holley, but they take the a majority of the same parts. They have changed the design since this one (it appears) but does the same thing.
DSC00162.JPG

DSC00160.JPG
 

Camtron

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Happy I found this. I had my cable set at about 11:20. Ran out to the garage and moved them around and now the car feels about dead on to factory shift points.
Demon carbs have 3 kick down locations on them out of the box. Car felt way better going around the block.

image.jpg
 
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