Broken wheel bearings?

BudW

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First of all, lets not belittle anyone here. We are here to help out our fellow forum member and to help keep FMJ's on the road.

On October 11, 2016 – which was about 15 months after I purchased my wagon, I was dropping my twins off at Elementary school. As I was pulling out of the school driveway and on my way home, I heard a crunch noise, then a grinding along with a loose steering wheel. The R/F outer wheel bearing came apart just like this example. The car only had 36k miles on it at the time and sense I was less than a mile from home, I drove home (slow and careful).

I was going to make a forum post about it, at the time, with lots of pictures. Sense that time, I don't know what happened to all of my pictures (can't find 'em) but did find a Word Document I had started for my forum post (in blue):
"I just got the inner wheel bearing removed from the spindle, using a puller. The spindle shows no sign of discoloration but does have some light scoring to the outer bearing surface (on spindle).

Spindles are heat treated from factory and I believe if a spindle got hot enough to turn blue or black, then the heat treating might no longer be present (no facts to back this up). Spindles are too important for me to trust a “discolored from heat”, issue.

I think some light filing may take care of the roughness to inner bearing spindle surface. The inner bearing (the large one) is one that takes most of the vehicle weight – so I think I will be fine.

Now to get some parts.

Note: I generally only see these type of failures with “cheap” bearings or cars that are WAY WAY WAY past normal maintenance.

Brake pads last roughly 30k miles on our cars. It is important to remove brake rotors to surface for new brake pads, and to clean, inspect and re-pack the wheel bearings at same time. Also, doing so, will remove any errant iron shavings produced by machining the brake rotors.

If a person does that, then these wheel bearings will last forever.

This bearing had mostly enough grease in it to last 30k miles and grease appears to have been replaced a few thousand miles ago – so not exactly sure what failure is from. It might just a cheap bearing?

Note: front wheel bearings should slide freely on the spindle. They shouldn't be loose or require effort to push/pull into place."


Now I did file the outer wheel bearing surface down on my spindle – but it was too deeply scored to salvage – so I had to get replacement spindle (used) to fix my car with.

The bad thing is I had taken about 40 pictures showing what I did – and not sure what happened to those pictures.

While working on car at same time, I found the other side of car, the upper ball joint was way loose, so fixed it as well.

I don't think maintenance had anything to do with my bearing failure. I don't remember who made the bearing (I took a picture of it, but can't remember) – so I suspect a cheap bearing is what failed. I have always said, when it comes to bearings – you get what you pay for.

I did replace the brake rotor, both bearings (Timken), seal and spindle. I also replaced the upper ball joint on other side of car – but that was unrelated.
BudW
 

MoparDan

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Since you already have it apart testing it with the tire on and rocking it laterally is out of the question. You can use a big ass screw driver to do the same thing.
How to Check Ball Joints
Actually I put everything back together after taking the pictures-I don't have jack stands anymore, just the factory jack and a bottle neck jack from a Grand Cherokee...so I did it quick! I'll read up on the link and check them tomorrow (too dark now)

ACDelco 88912474

try rock auto, frame bump stops, easy to install
thanks
 
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MoparDan

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First of all, lets not belittle anyone here. We are here to help out our fellow forum member and to help keep FMJ's on the road.

On October 11, 2016 – which was about 15 months after I purchased my wagon, I was dropping my twins off at Elementary school. As I was pulling out of the school driveway and on my way home, I heard a crunch noise, then a grinding along with a loose steering wheel. The R/F outer wheel bearing came apart just like this example. The car only had 36k miles on it at the time and sense I was less than a mile from home, I drove home (slow and careful).

I was going to make a forum post about it, at the time, with lots of pictures. Sense that time, I don't know what happened to all of my pictures (can't find 'em) but did find a Word Document I had started for my forum post (in blue):
"I just got the inner wheel bearing removed from the spindle, using a puller. The spindle shows no sign of discoloration but does have some light scoring to the outer bearing surface (on spindle).

Spindles are heat treated from factory and I believe if a spindle got hot enough to turn blue or black, then the heat treating might no longer be present (no facts to back this up). Spindles are too important for me to trust a “discolored from heat”, issue.

I think some light filing may take care of the roughness to inner bearing spindle surface. The inner bearing (the large one) is one that takes most of the vehicle weight – so I think I will be fine.

Now to get some parts.

Note: I generally only see these type of failures with “cheap” bearings or cars that are WAY WAY WAY past normal maintenance.

Brake pads last roughly 30k miles on our cars. It is important to remove brake rotors to surface for new brake pads, and to clean, inspect and re-pack the wheel bearings at same time. Also, doing so, will remove any errant iron shavings produced by machining the brake rotors.

If a person does that, then these wheel bearings will last forever.

This bearing had mostly enough grease in it to last 30k miles and grease appears to have been replaced a few thousand miles ago – so not exactly sure what failure is from. It might just a cheap bearing?

Note: front wheel bearings should slide freely on the spindle. They shouldn't be loose or require effort to push/pull into place."


Now I did file the outer wheel bearing surface down on my spindle – but it was too deeply scored to salvage – so I had to get replacement spindle (used) to fix my car with.

The bad thing is I had taken about 40 pictures showing what I did – and not sure what happened to those pictures.

While working on car at same time, I found the other side of car, the upper ball joint was way loose, so fixed it as well.

I don't think maintenance had anything to do with my bearing failure. I don't remember who made the bearing (I took a picture of it, but can't remember) – so I suspect a cheap bearing is what failed. I have always said, when it comes to bearings – you get what you pay for.

I did replace the brake rotor, both bearings (Timken), seal and spindle. I also replaced the upper ball joint on other side of car – but that was unrelated.
BudW

I just checked the service records, the brakes have 27,754 miles on them, not quite 30K, but close enough, they started getting weak around 2018, I was trying to save some money to replace them, then the Bayview Hotel-the place I was living at burned down "accidentally" (which is a total lie but that's another story...) and all the money I'd saved was in the room, and since the owner refused to pay for anything in our rooms, or even refund our deposits (he's a millionaire so he got away with it...) I now had no money and had drive several places a day so cops won't impound my car...so the brakes never got done, while I was homeless for the next 9 months I'd fix one thing a month, it was the only way I could afford to get anything done and the brakes weren't bad enough to think about, it wasn't until recently they started getting bad, I'm thankfull the spindle on mine is ok! I'm sure the New Haven garage used the cheapest parts they could find (they may have even used to old bearings, and just charged me for new ones like they did with the cotter pins) Now where do you buy good bearings like the Timken ones you mentioned? I plan to repack the bearings like guys have said I just never knew about doing that until now, one last question is do they make replacement caps that cover the bearings? one is dented and other just looks old
 

MoparDan

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Since you already have it apart testing it with the tire on and rocking it laterally is out of the question. You can use a big ass screw driver to do the same thing.

How to Check Ball Joints
Update: I was just looking at the link and it says you need a jack stand and also shows them using a hydraulic jack, I don't have either so I guess I can't check them myself, I did take the right side tire off earlier today just to see if it was bad too (its not) but I was looking at the ball joints and on the upper ball joint I noticed a small crack with grease around it on the boot, it said that that is somthing that causes failure, so I guess the upper one needs to be replaced, I didn't see any obvious cracks, but it looks dry rotted, I'm not sure about the left side, but it looks like the right side ones need to be replaced, exactly how an when will depend on how much money I get...I need to replace afew other things also: tires, and steering box (its leaking pretty badly) so there are a few things to replace. Obviously the brakes/wheel bearings need to be done first just so I can move her around. Is there a specific brand that works/lasts best?
 

Duke5A

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Rotors are hit and miss. I bought Bosch (cost twice as much) for my daily driver and the $#@$ing things are warped in under a year. Might as well get the cheap ones as all rotors seem to be shit. Bearings I always get Timken. The rotors will come with the outer bearing race already pressed in. I typically remove these and use the outers that come with the bearing, but with your availability of tools, this probably isn't an option.

This isn't a job you can do with a scissor jack. You need stands at least. Who is going to drive your wife around if Cherry Bomb lands on your neck? I'm not trying to be a smart ass or anything. Those jacks are made to be used for quick tire changes and not getting under the vehicle, even if you're just poking your head in the wheel well.

Are you ex military by chance or know anyone who is? Bases with housing typically have a garage with lifts and fully furnished with tools that are open to soldiers so they can fix their own stuff. Civilians could get in with a sponsor. When I was 21 I spent an entire summer on a base with a friend whose Mom worked on base and we swapped a 360 into his second gen Dakota. Miss those days...
 

MoparDan

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No I don't know anyone from the military. I plan on getting a set of jack stands, I don't feel like getting crushed by The Cherry Bomb :D (the wife's had two strokes and doesn't have good reflexes anymore so she doesn't really drive anymore) Its been a few years that I've had a driveway to work in, I can't do too much there because we rent the house, but if something comes up they'll come in handy thats for sure.
Where do I buy Timken bearings from?
 

Mikes5thAve

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do they make replacement caps that cover the bearings? one is dented and other just looks old

As long as they aren't punctured and can be seated all the way (it's not in one of your pictures) they don't need to be replaced. Put the money towards the more important parts that need to be replaced. The caps get banged up over time being removed and re-installed. They're only there to keep dirt and moisture out of the bearing.
 

BudW

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Dust caps do get banged up a lot. Unless you are a sticker for appearance or as long as existing cap is not punctured – don't worry about it.

The nut, slotted nut cap and washer can usually be reused without issue as well. Sometimes the washer can get damaged/scored. Not a problem – just flip it around so rough/damaged side is out.

Cotter pins – they are cheap insurance – so don't scrimp here.

Timken bearings are one of the better made ones I've seen/used. They are also harder to get and a bit more expensive. ANY bearing should last the car if it is cleaned and repacked with grease every 30k miles (or so) – but with that said, ANYTHING can break...at any time, so a lot can be said or implied here.
Typically I will STAY a long distance from anything made in China – but it is getting hard to get much not made there anymore.

The brake rotor I purchased was Bendix or Wagner (I can't remember) – and (sigh) it came from China.

I agree with @Duke5A about changing the outer race (on brake rotor) after a bearing failure (or even with new cheap rotors) – but my new brake rotor didn't have punch reliefs in it – so couldn't tap old (new) race out. My old brake rotor was big time damaged from it the brake caliper.

www.RockAuto.com is the cheapest place to purchase auto parts from – just as long as you are not in a hurry for the parts.
I looked up '86 Diplomat (not sure if that what you have – but shouldn't matter much) and they have 30 different wheel bearings listed (half are considered economy and other half are standard replacement).
Keep in mind there are four different wheel bearings used for any one year FMJ: Two for front (inner and outer) and two in rear (a different bearing for 7¼” or 8¼” differentials).

If looking for a front Timken bearing, “Set2” would be outer front (the smaller one) and “Set17” for the inner bearing (the larger one).
These two part numbers apply to all FMJ's and a huge number of other Chrysler vehicles.

The seal is important to change as well. Timken makes a seals as well – but I don't know there is a hill of beans worth of difference on which brand of seal you use. www.RockAuto.com does offer a front seal for as low as $0.26 (plus freight and shipping). Yes, that is twenty-six cents! I doubt I would get that seal, though – for I'm sure its made in China.
I've had decent luck with National (p/n 5121) or SKF (p/n 19500) – but personally, I have no preference to seals (except for the China, part).

Before you install the seal, they make a special tool to install them with – but what I've done is gone to the hardware store with seal in hand, and purchased a piece of white plastic pipe fitting that fits the seal, and glued a piece of wood on it to use to install the seal with. If your hammering skills are good, you could use a normal “nail” hammer and “lightly” tap the seal in place (after bearings are packed) – but if you bend the seal (anywhere) – toss it and get another seal. My hammering skills are, well, non-existent – so I have a bunch of well-used handmade (ie: hardware store "through-together") tools for this purpose.

I did the same for a dust cap installer – using a short piece of metal pipe – but I only use it on “new” dust caps.
For old dust caps, I use the side of the hammer to tap it on. The caps do not need to be hammered on far. Be sure to leave a bit of space so a screwdriver can get between the cap edge and brake rotor edge for your next “go at it”.

I like to clean the spindle really well before installing the rotor – then dab on a thin layer of grease on the entire stub, inside the cap and on the area where the seal goes – for it keeps rust at bay. I also like to apply plenty of grease in the cavity of rotor between the two bearings (my preference).

After rotor is on, outer bearing, washer then the nut, tighten the nut with a wrench until snug, rotate the rotor a quarter turn, and snug down the nut again. I like to rotate the rotor once more and tighten the nut once more – THEN back nut off about a quarter turn, and back to finger tight (this is to center the bearing correctly. Stick the nut cap on so cotter pin can go through the hole. No match, then keep rotating the cap – and it “should” line up. If still not, then lightly tighten the nut a smidge more and try again. Insert cotter pin, and bend to lock in place, lightly tap the cap on and call that portion of the job done.
BudW
 

MoparDan

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As long as they aren't punctured and can be seated all the way (it's not in one of your pictures) they don't need to be replaced. Put the money towards the more important parts that need to be replaced. The caps get banged up over time being removed and re-installed. They're only there to keep dirt and moisture out of the bearing.
Ok, thanks
 

Oldiron440

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Inspect all new parts no matter the brand, I've seen Timkin sets with problems. Flawed races and bearing even Timkin fresh out of the box.
 

BudW

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I think the above statement is TRUE, no matter what the part is or who made it.
 

Addy87

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Update: I was just looking at the link and it says you need a jack stand and also shows them using a hydraulic jack, I don't have either so I guess I can't check them myself, I did take the right side tire off earlier today just to see if it was bad too (its not) but I was looking at the ball joints and on the upper ball joint I noticed a small crack with grease around it on the boot, it said that that is somthing that causes failure, so I guess the upper one needs to be replaced, I didn't see any obvious cracks, but it looks dry rotted, I'm not sure about the left side, but it looks like the right side ones need to be replaced, exactly how an when will depend on how much money I get...I need to replace afew other things also: tires, and steering box (its leaking pretty badly) so there are a few things to replace. Obviously the brakes/wheel bearings need to be done first just so I can move her around. Is there a specific brand that works/lasts best?

Your steering gear (box) may not have to be replaced as an assembly. The power steering return and/or pressure hoses could be the source of the leak or at the top of the steering gear. If the leak is under the big round cap on the top of the gear, Chrysler had o-ring seal kits for that area. Don't know if those o-rings are still available from the dealer or not. They were red/orange in color. I made sure we had them in stock at the Chrysler/Plymouth dealer I worked at, as those o-rings get hard and possibly shrink over time. Just checked my Factory 1987 Chrysler Parts Book (same as your 1985 Gran Fury am sure) and here's the MoPar Part numbers: 3879920 Strg Gear Shaft Cover O-Ring Service Package and 3879919 Strg Valve Body Seal Service Package. What I would do is get some degreaser and carefully spray it on the steering gear, let it set a bit and carefully wash it off so you can see exactly where it might be leaking. Of course, some leaks look like they're leaking in one area, but are actually leaking in another area. If I were you, I'd look to see if there's a MoPar mechanic in your area who could put those o-rings on, if in fact they are causing the leak. With the way new parts are made these days unfortunately, it's best to overhaul or repair those such as the original steering gear. But, many mechanics today only want to replace the assembly and not want to repair it. Do you have a service and owner's manual for the Fury? If so, the owner's manual would list that the front wheel bearings need to be inspected every 22,500 miles OR every 9,000 miles if vehicle is used in severe service (short trips, stop and go traffic, etc.). If you have a service manual, is it the factory one?
 

Addy87

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Inspect all new parts no matter the brand, I've seen Timkin sets with problems. Flawed races and bearing even Timkin fresh out of the box.

It's very sad to hear that Timken bearings are having quality issues these days. They used to be the best bearing brand out there back in the day! :(
 

LSM360

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Maybe the issue he had with Timken bearings was not a common one. I used a set of sealed hub bearings in a high mileage police charger I had and they were good out of the box and for several thousand miles prior to selling.
 

MoparDan

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I think I have everything now: pads, rotors, calipers, wheels seals, inner and outer bearings (yes Timken) spindle lock kits, and bearing grease, is there anything else needed?
 

BudW

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Elbow grease and hand cleaner


Edit: One more thing, before applying grease to either wheel bearing, take the (new) bearing(s) and make sure they slide smoothly over the spindle.
If the bearing doesn't slide smoothly, then take some sandpaper (or file, lightly) - to the spindle (only) and make it smooth. If that doesn't make the bearing slide smoothly – then its time to find another spindle. I've seen many a wheel bearing failure (or past due for grease replacement) – where the spindle is damaged beyond reuse.
If any sanding (or filing) was needed - be sure to clean the area well before continuing.

Yes it takes a few minutes more to complete the job – but at least you won't have to worry about driving the car and see one of your wheels pass you on the road (ie: the making of a bad day).
 
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