Dash conversion

[My imp]

Cool, mine's taking a long winters nap, & judging from the roads I don't think she'd appreciate me waking her up! Once I have clean, dry, salt free streets, I'll take her out for a nice blast. I wish I could remember, as I know I've gone faster than 80, but not sure by how far.

 

[greymouser7]

i think that one could just use the f body insterments, leaving the whole pod installed, and use the right side and top pad from a m body...

I am not sure what you mean by right side. I want the round gauges of the dash.

from what I understand he wants the much better looking round M gauges in his F body

Yes sir! You are on point!

I'd be against the Imperial dash for the one reason I'm fighting: 85mph speedometer?!.

This is exactly what I want.
It probably wouldn't work but:
"DO YOU KNOW WHY I PULLED YOU OVER SON?"
no
"DO YOU KNOW HOW FAST YOU WERE GOING?"
I am not sure, the speedometer only goes to 85.

And the other problem: If the car was hack-converted (see mine for example) the fuel gauge becomes useless. The ohm reading between a Mirada and Imperial tank is different enough that your fuel gauge becomes an on-off light.

This is interesting. I planned on replacing the gas tank, but I did no know to lookout for that.

IMHO there's nothing better looking than the digital dash with the genuine/imitation burled walnut plastic/chrome accented dash. I unfortunately threw away a mint interior from a Cordoba with the entire set of wood grained plastic.

My mother went shopping for an airplane with her life savings once. One of the sales pitches was a guy selling digital gauges to people up in Oshkosh, Wisconsin's Experimental Aircaft airshow (Association). Those people shopping in that show had allota money to spend.
He said that the mind does not process the data read from digits as fast as it does with a quick glance at a needle gauge for speed/fuelvolumegauge/altitude/etc. {his gauges were digital electronic displays of what would look like any analog needle gauge}

-I figure that might be important if I decide to look down while at speed at a long trac or completing in the silverstate classic or Nebraska's road course.

genuine/imitation burled walnut grained framing on the dash would look fantastic though!

The Imperial gauge cluster reads up to and only 85 mph in U.S. form, and up to 120 mph in world markets.

I have scene 140 mph circle gauges on eBay before, but I have not prioritized them yet.

 

[Mr.Lopar]

Swap in the round m gauges,and find a 125mph cop speedo

 

[My imp]

I got one.

 

[My imp]

It's what you're used to, & you can get used to a lot! My son in law works on F-18's. How many analog gauges do you think they have? I got used to the digital dash in my LeBaron, & when it got shortened by 18", I had to get used to needles. Then I got the Imp. It's like an old friend returning. I love the digital. I can over simplify it to the point that speed limit signs don't have needles, just numbers. It's all what you prefer. Nothing that is going to happen, happens fast enough, or slow enough that digital/analog is going to matter. Until I get the A pillar pod built for the digital gauges, I have a mixture (digital dash/aftermarket analog gauges under the ashtray) in the Imp right now. Im aging & the ole grey matter ain't what it used to be, but that's not a problem(yet).

 

[Mr.Lopar]

Digital dashes are cool, just too much more to go wrong in my opinion

 

[My imp]

The Imperial gauge cluster reads up to and only 85 mph in U.S. form, and up to 120 mph in world markets.

Other than the Police package, analogs only go to 85 as well. So that "Do you know how fast you were going?" is the same answer on both dashes. Except you could say, "I don't know?, the needle was pointing at the PRND21?" lol

 

[My imp]

The Imperial gauge cluster reads up to and only 85 mph in U.S. form, and up to 120 mph in world markets.

So I found no info about what component is changed in the FSM. Anyone know what to change? The cruise uses what outwardly appears to be an electronic speed sensor, just like all other computer controlled Mopars. Does it use a replaceable gear that can be changed to convert the speed?

 

[NoCar340]

I have an M cop-car speedometer for sale in the "Mostly M-body stuff" thread.

Since the M-body is the same car, fundamentally, as an F-body, it would not surprise me if the instrument cluster & attendant parts were a drop-in conversion. Look at a pre-'80 M, and it's just oozing F-car. Even the doors are the same. I've thought about this same conversion more than once, but I never owned the an F & M at the same time.

When my Imperial comes home, the digital dash is coming out and never going back. I'm going to use a J-body bezel and custom gauges, using every hole in the cluster. It'll still look stock-ish, though, since I'm having the gauge faces made with the same alphanumerical font Chrysler was so fond of during that era (the same thing that's on my cop-car speedo, not the '77-'79 style). I found it as a downloadable .ttf file.

 

[kkritsilas]

Has anybody been able to find an analog tach that would fit into the gauge cluster of a J body? It looks almost absurd to have such a large opening for the fuel gauge. The fuel gauge should have been in one of the smaller openings, and there should have been a proper tach in the hole the fuel gauge is in. I have contacted some of the custom gauge builders on the 'net, but none of them have ever replied back. One of them (Redline Gauge Works) seems to have the ability to create a tach with a smaller fuel gauge inset into the face of the tach, but haven't been able to get them to respond.

Kostas

 

[My imp]

I have one I'll get rid of also. I still have some stuff left from 20+ years ago. When spring rolls around, I'll find out.

 

[My imp]

I have an M cop-car speedometer for sale in the "Mostly M-body stuff" thread.

Since the M-body is the same car, fundamentally, as an F-body, it would not surprise me if the instrument clustexr & attendant parts were a drop-in conversion. Look at a pre-'80 M, and it's just oozing F-car. Even the doors are the same. I've thought about this same conversion more than once, but I never owned the an F & M at the same time.

When my Imperial comes home, the digital dash is coming out and never going back. I'm going to use a J-body bezel and custom gauges, using every hole in the cluster. It'll still look stock-ish, though, since I'm having the gauge faces made with the same alphanumerical font Chrysler was so fond of during that era (the same thing that's on my cop-car speedo, not the '77-'79 style). I found it as a downloadable .ttf file.

To each his own. Sure would be a lot easier! Throw away that entire Imperial wiring harness! Cleans up under the dash & hood in fell swoop! If I weren't so attached to the dash, I might consider it. But I'm one of the "The way Chrysler should've built it!" kind of guys. I add options, not remove them. If you can, have you considered using the self adhesive sheets of aluminum to do an authentic engine turned panel to cover the plain Jane one on the Mirada one? Not the plastic "chroma graffix" shite they used on Pontiac T/A's! But the real thing? I haven't done one in years, but by the grace of God, & the aid of a die grinder & adult beverages, I used to turn out some bitchin' pieces!

 

[NoCar340]

But I'm one of the "The way Chrysler should've built it!" kind of guys.

Me too... and it should've had needles on a 120MPH or higher speedometer, an 8,000RPM tach, oil-pressure gauge, temp, volts, boost, EGT.... :eusa_dance:

Purists are going to cringe, if not at the dash or the engine, surely the 4-speed shifter will cause some palpitations.

 

[My imp]

Boost? EGT? Standard on a Peterbuilt. lol I happen to prefer digital. If Chrysler had REALLY intended on entering the high end luxury coach building ranks, they could've used REAL burled walnut, Connolly hides, hi end wool carpets, etc.. They said only workers with 20+ yrs experience could work the Imperial line. Look at the paint quality! Horrendous!! The engineering was no where near ready for public debut. Who in their right mind would put sensitive electrical equipment IN an air cleaner? The heat, the fuel, & general conditions don't make for any type of a well thought out plan. Given the unskilled, untrained, racially impaired UAW workers of the era. I really don't see any difference in build quality or materials from the other J body brethren. Except for that groovy shag carpet! Idiot lights never did anything for me either. I guess the executive on the go had better things to occupy his cabin time with than checking gauges. Maybe they figured it's too much information to deal with at one time. Chrysler's good for that. Tha digital dash in an '88 LeBaron vert only shows 1 gauge at a time. You can switch manually, or if there's a problem, it switches, & flashes automatically. The tach is a joke! Hopefully I'll come up with something I like. When did Mopar start using volt meters? When did they quit using ammeters? Lido should've hired less "Yes" men, & more engineers who didn't rush things into production before they were sorted out, like the Imperial. Could've been a home run, instead of an infield hit!

 

[NoCar340]

Lido should've hired less "Yes" men, & more engineers who didn't rush things into production before they were sorted out, like the Imperial. Could've been a home run, instead of an infield hit!

Actually, several senior Chrysler suspension engineers quit the company over the front suspension design used in the FMJY cars, and build quality was in the garbage at the outset with the year-early introduction of the F-bodies. My '76 Volare only had 3 nuts inside the frame to retain the K-member from the factory. The original owner noticed the missing bolt at the first oil change, standing in the dealership service bay with the mechanic. They tried to put a bolt in, only to discover there was nothing into which it could thread. The tech told him it was "fine" which turned out to be true, but the car was rarely taken above 35MPH (all city driving). I bought it from the owner's son, who never trusted it. I never even drove it. It got cannibalized for parts, then crushed.

My '81 Mirada had the groovy shag in it, and it was a gorgeous, low-mile original. Damned shame what happened to that car. A drunk driver totalled it while it was parked in front of my house.

 

[My imp]

Yeah, I know I sound like a Monday morning q-back, but wouldn't a little bit of common sense gone a long way? I know they had no $$$ for R/D, but neither did AMC & they made the AMX! Calling a higher contented Cordoba with a rubber nose an Imperial just doesn't make sense. '75 Imperials & older owners don't even consider the Y car an Imp. I love the looks of the car. It's shortcomings can be corrected. Everything on these cars were built & designed by people who didn't even know if the company would be in business Monday morning. In theory, the front cradle is a masterpiece. Everything is contained in one tight, small package. Engine, suspension, steering, are all mounted to the front crossmember which ties the car together. Saves weight, material, time on assy. line, etc.. Then the bean counters stepped in. For all they cared about it, that was good enough. Had more time been dedicated, either it would've been fixed, or nixed, & the old fashion style torsion bars would've been used again. All the other Imps had a big block, high perf everything. Lido decided to showcase technology & economy. The tech wasn't up to snuff, & the economy from the purchase price (most expensive domestic model of '81) on down wasn't there either. Car was 800-1000 lbs too heavy to begin with. Swing batter, batter. Swing!

 

[NoCar340]

I agree that the front-suspension packaging is genius; it's the geometry that's nothing short of atrocious. The caster and camber go all over the place throughout the wheel travel because of the torsionstrutbarrods. It also moved the roll center up and forward in comparison to the longitudinal setup of prior models. That's the one shortcoming of the car that can't be corrected without major surgery (replacing the entire front suspension). The reason for the packaging design was solely to reduce NVH at the driver's butt, but as someone who's owned a slew of longitudinal-bar cars, I can't say I ever thought they had a bad ride quality to them. Chrysler was trying to mimic the pathetic Nova, whose ride might have been better but it was not the unitized construction to which Chrysler was committed (barring the C-barges). The F suspension was just an outgrowth of the 1973 redesign on the B-body; many of the parts interchange and the B-body was also largely self-contained other than the T-bars; that design was good enough to use on the R-bodies, which are simply reskinned Bs.

Anyhow, what were we talking about? Ah, yes, gauges. I want to make a driver's car out of it. Mr. Executive didn't have time for gauges because he was in the back seat with his briefcase or his secretary in a four-door with a company driver. A peformance car can have luxury; the original Mark VII LSC being a perfect example. A driver's car has driver input: good steering feedback, positive brakes, and yes--easily-referenced needles to monitor the vitals. As was mentioned earlier, you don't have to read analog gauges. Your eye knows where the needles should be. You can look at one spot and with peripheral vision instantly know if there's an issue. Digital gauges require you to actually read each one, which slows down response time. As I grow older, I find myself becoming more fond of idiot lights if they have the right threshold. The stock oil-pressure switch kicks on when it's already too late; an AutoMeter replacement comes on at 18PSI rather than 7. Digging through catalogs at the parts store can find you almost any range of temperature switch you desire if you frequent the right places (AutoZone, O'Reilly, and Advance need not apply). Do I want idiot lights? Maybe as backups for those times loafing along the freeway when you don't think to watch te gauges as closely... but gauges with a pointer are an absolute must for me. I always felt the F-body cluster weak in that department. Yes, you could get a factory tach (I've owned several of those) and a tacky factory oil-pressure gauge (had a few of those too), but the layout of the M and J clusters virtually beg to be filled with good instrumentation.

Hence the desire to swap the M cluster into the F dash. The point of this thread. Nice save, huh?

 

[My imp]

Do you wind your alarm clock? lol I have both in the Imp right now. Summit oil & water analogs with needles & lights, & everything! Then the dash is digital, the clock is digital, the radio is digital. I prefer digital. The speed limit signs in my neighborhood that let you know how fast you're traveling are digital. No needles anywhere? I've head both, & I prefer digital. You prefer needles. Digital dashes were the rage, as were the HUD dashes. I understand they're safer, but a bit distracting until you got used to it. Radio stations report time digitally. They say 5:20, not twenty past, or after 5 like they used to in the old days. Many of the older school busesi used to work on would have the cables go bad & the needle would flutter. Seems I remember more than a couple of my old cars that did the same thing. Sometimes the cable, sometimes the speedo head. Now THAT used to drive me batty! I think the reason digital dashes fell out of favor was that if one thing malfunctioned, the entire dash needed replaced, or repaired, vs. swapping out one gauge. Rolls Royce actually put BOTH digital & analog chronometers in their cars. When I got my first digital alarm clock ,I was hooked! No more analog for me! I'm getting older myself, & like to challenge the olde grey matter whenever possible. Until I either find, or fab an A pillar pod for the digital gauges, I'll mix & match with what I have in there now. LSC's were a cool car. The turbo T-bird's had IRS units in them. I'd like to get a Factory 5 65 Coupe (Daytona) & put one in. That would be one fun project!

 

[kkritsilas]

I used to work in electronics manufacturing, in a number of different roles, but for this discussion, it would be when I was a test engineer. I used to spec and issue purchase requests for equipment used by the production techs. This was in the mid 1980s. One of the projects I worked on was a switching power supply, that had a number of test points, and the old timer design engineer that I worked with was adamant about using analog multi-meters to monitor things (during the era of the truly great digital multi-meters, as in the Fluke 80XX series). He explained that you don't really use analog meters for getting accurate measurements, but you need to see how fast and how far the needle swings when things are changing during adjustments. Judging rate of change on a digital display is close to impossible, as is how steady a reading is. He did say to make the most accurate measurements, use a digital meter. In the same way, an analog gauge cluster is easier and faster to read than a digital one. You don't read the number (a lot of factory gauges don't even have numbers on them), but just check to make sure the needle is in the right place. It is easy, after you get used to a car, to know where the needles are supposed to point, and can pick up really quickly when they are not in the right place.

My previous car was a 1993 Lincoln Mark VIII LSC. For its day, a top of the line car. It had an analog dash, without even an option to get a digital dash. With the cost of the car from the factory, they could have used a digital dash, but didn't. A lot of the newer, very high end cars, have a screen that displays the dash information, and most can be flipped to display a variety of displays. Almost all come with a default display that is analog. In the case of these cars, there is no cost penalty for putting out a digital read out, yet almost all of them default to an analog display. I just rented a Ford Fusion for a week while in Montreal. It had an analog dash. Has to be a reason for it.

Kostas

P.S. Turbo TBirds had a standard live axle (later on with the Quadra-Shocks). The Thunderbird SC had an IRS (as did all of the MN12 cars, supercharged or not, including the Mark VIII that I had).

 

[My imp]

My mistake on the Ford, I know of needle sweeps as well, all the old tech's I know feel the same way. As you say, the human eye cannot follow the speed with which a digital readout rises or falls & the infotainment screens are all the rage now. Every function reduced to watching television. Chrysler has always been an engineers company. When Chrysler released the Airflow, it was decades ahead of its systems. Unit body & aero? Unheard of, except in the aerospace industry. Remember the "No respect"? Here's an analog vs. digital for you; the B-58 Hustler (in my day, the ultimate boner inspiring ride!) vs. the SR-71 Blackbird. Convair (General Dynamics owned by Chrysler) built the Hustler. Don't know if you're into aviation at all, but the Hustler gets NOOOOO respect! First plane ANYWHERE to exceed Mach2 in level flight (spiraling in for a crash doesn't count!). Not even the fighters of the day could hit Mach 2! Yet to watch all the aviation shows out there, Kelly Johnson is given credit for many of the firsts that the B-58 pioneered. Honeycomb construction, stressed titanium, high temp paint, & the list goes on & on. The XB-70 Valkyrie is always assumed to be the only supersonic bomber. It never made it past the prototype stage, the 58 was in SAC for 10 yrs.. Then along came the Blackbird. Everything that the XB-70 wasn't given credit for, was given to the SR-71. This is really turning into a Peter-pulling, pissing contest over what type of dash we prefer. For accuracy, digital is the way to go. Some people like vinyl, some like digital. That's like saying that ref.'s & ump.'s totally F*cking up a call & losing a game (Browns vs. Patriots) is part of the "beauty of the game"! Clearly instant replay is vastly superior to human eyes (digital vs. analog), buts let's just ignore it for the integrity of the game? BUULLSHHIIITTT!