High Tech Train Wreck

Greg55_99 · Jul 31, 2012

I bought this car in 1978. It went from a 318 to a 360 to a 413. I can tell you the last time I had it apart. June 1984. I was on leave from Air Force training, came home and put it back together in my buddies garage. We had to get it on the road to move it from there to a storage unit in Midland, PA 15 miles away. I got it running, made the trip, locked it up and kept it there until 2008. Now, after all of that time, it’s in MY garage and I’m taking it apart again. Looks like the Ziebart did it’s job. Making changes and corrections of things I did WAY wrong back then. Trying new things too. The 413 is coming out (again) and getting a proper rebuild. Things I’ve picked up for this “High Tech Train Wreck”:

2002 Viper T56
2003 Mustang Cobra IRS
Industrial Chassis Dodge Dakota Rack & Pinion Crossmember
120V Lincoln welder

Hopefully, I’ll get it on the road again before I retire…

Greg

efriedrich · Jul 31, 2012

Interesting build, good luck.

MiradaMegacab · Jul 31, 2012

efriedrich said:
Interesting build, good luck.

X2 Beer, SawZall and a MigWelder..... You can do anything!!

Greg55_99 · Jul 31, 2012

MiradaMegacab said:
X2 Beer, SawZall and a MigWelder..... You can do anything!!

As we used to say in the Air Force... "I am.... highly motivated...."

Amazing how much weight this car loses when the bumpers come off...

Greg

76CinnamonRT · Jul 31, 2012

Sweet effin project I like it

Shorty Thompson · Aug 1, 2012

Hmmmm . Where's the like button ?

ramenth · Aug 1, 2012

How ya gonna drive it with the rear end in backwards?

oke:

Seriously, what's your mods going to be to the 413? Any?

When I was at Ford we had a guy coming in constantly with a Shelby GT he liked to drag. He modded the 4.6 a bit, upped his rated 315hp to maybe in the 350 range and kept blowing the 8.8 rear. Never would spend the money on building it right and the idiot service writer kept sneaking it in under warranty so the genuine FoMoCo parts kept letting go. While you got it out, now's the time to think about beefing it.

Nice idea, though. Now you got me thinking about a new rear for Penny...:notworthy:

Greg55_99 · Aug 1, 2012

Well, I figure this project will take a couple of years at least. Spending time with the wife and kids takes priority. However, I DO have a general game plan.
The 413 was poorly put together in 1980 (by the 25 year old me I admit), so it will come apart, get a 30 over fresh bore job, pistons and balance. Things like the cam, lifters, bearings, timing chain and heads were new and had less than 200 miles on them before I parked the car way back when. Stock 69 440 heads were also done up with new valves at the time, so, hopefully, when the motor comes apart, the parts I’d put in then will pass inspection. Don’t want to put too much money into it again. If the block is no good, I’ll just find a 440 one and go with that. I don’t need 500HP.
The Cobra IRS, as you can actually see, is a pretty good fit, length wise, in the F-body chassis. I have a 69 B-body 8 ¾ in there now (which is what you see it pressed up against). I’ve been haunting Craigslist (MAN do I LOVE that thing!) looking for nylon bushings and a Cobra IRS brace to beef up the diff. Internet research show the Cobra blows when hit with high torque and lots of movement through the rubber mounts. There are two sights on the Net that really show some good ideas on how to mount a Cobra IRS into a different chassis:
http://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?46489-TwinTorino
http://www.motorcitymarauders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2579
I like the solid mounted version.
The main thing I’ll be looking at doing is cladding the F-body frame (front to back) with ¼” steel for strength and tying it all together. The car has an 833 in it right now, but the T56 was a Craigslist special I just had to have. Floor cutting involved. Again, the A-body forum has the low down on how that’s done. I just hate to spend $500 for a bellhousing though. In for a penny, in for a pound….
In reality, the only new ground is probably using the Industrial Chassis Dakota crossmember in a Mopar. Guess I’ll see how that goes. Elpolako, the guy that makes them, says with the frame beefed up, it should work….. Crossing fingers……
So yeah, I’ve kinda sorta thought this out…..
Greg

MiradaMegacab · Aug 1, 2012

Cladding the frame with 1/4" plate is gonna add some serious weight!! Do you have rusted frame rails? Seems a roll cage will spread the load and stiffen everything up, remember triangles are your friend.

Greg55_99 · Aug 1, 2012

My concern revolves around hanging suspension assemblies on the light weight F-body frame which looks to me like folded sheet metal. In the front, stock, all suspension pieces are attached to the stiff k-frame. I’ll be eliminating that. The IRS will attach to the rear rails somewhere. Don’t want any of that breaking loose under load. Would you suggest a thinner gauge?

Greg

ramenth · Aug 1, 2012

It's a little heavier than just folded sheetmetal, but you're right, it should be reinforced.

We had a thread over on FEBO of someone doing something similar to his E- with the IRS from a Charger. All the pics are gone when he falling out with the for - bodiesonly family of sites. I've just contacted him to see if he'd send me some pics on what he did if that would help.

MiradaMegacab · Aug 1, 2012

Greg55_99 said:
The IRS will attach to the rear rails somewhere. Don’t want any of that breaking loose under load. Would you suggest a thinner gauge?

Ahh... I understand. Maybe backhalf the car, with new aftermarket framerails? Or use 10gauge (1/8") U channel over your factory framerails, sort of like a capping over the frame rail with a 6" long U or C channel..... Whatever u do, post pics. LOL

Greg55_99 · Aug 2, 2012

Forgive me for being a bit naive (having or showing a lack of experience, judgment, or information), but, would it be feasible to simply get another set of frame rails, slide them over the ones already in place and plug weld them together for added stiffness? That would simplify things a bit.

Greg

jasperjacko · Aug 2, 2012

They won't fit over the old ones if they occupy the same space. You would have to mash/distort them to work .

ramenth · Aug 5, 2012

MiradaMegacab said:
Ahh... I understand. Maybe backhalf the car, with new aftermarket framerails? Or use 10gauge (1/8") U channel over your factory framerails, sort of like a capping over the frame rail with a 6" long U or C channel..... Whatever u do, post pics. LOL

1/8" is a good place to start. Remember, like I said, the rails aren't "just" sheetmetal. It's a lot heavier gauge of steel than the outer body panels (can't remember now if it's 16 or 14 gauge).

Our boy over on FEBO (Ray) and FABO (Old Man Ray) sent me this link.

irsforum.boardhost.com. Since you've put this into my head, and seeing Ray's build on his E-body using a Charger IRS, you've both got me thinking about the feasibility of using it with my M-body.

Shorty Thompson · Aug 5, 2012

jasperjacko said:
They won't fit over the old ones if they occupy the same space. You would have to mash/distort them to work .

True, true , but there is a place I can't recall right now that does caps , and they fit over the existing frame rails .:icon_basketball:

MiradaMegacab · Aug 5, 2012

Thats autobody rust technicians.

Old Man Ray is a good guy and is always willing to help!!

Greg55_99 · Aug 6, 2012

Thank you for the inputs gents. I’ve been over to the Autorust site but they don’t list frame caps for the rear of the F-M-J. Just the front. Be nice to have something like that to start with. They DO have the torque boxes and frame connectors however. I don’t live to far from there, so a visit is in my future.

Robert, I found the link for Old Man Ray’s IRS Cuda build. It’s here with pics:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=158964

I have a healthy respect for ingenuity. My daily driver is a 2010 Challenger SE. My IRS (same as the Charger) looked a bit too wide for the FMJ, that’s why I went with the Cobra. However, it looks like Ray got that thing to work pretty good in his Cuda. I’m hoping I don’t have to go as far as he did to get the Cobra IRS in. I confess, I’m just not that good.

Greg

Greg55_99 · Aug 29, 2012

Made a little progress this week (wife and kids are at Grandma's). Drivetrain is out and on a shelf off to the side. I swear... taking this car apart after 34 years is like meeting up with an old girlfriend. I knew where every nut, bolt and kludge were. Rust, dust and rat turds falling out of her.... Just like old times...

I've answered a big question that's been eating at me though. Will the Industrial Chassis crossmember fit? Answer is... Yes it will! I slid it under the car with the engine now out to see how it fit between the frame rails. Like a glove... Took just a wiggle or two to get it to this point. Not all the way in, but that will have to wait until I get solid measurements from the stock K-frame then take that out. Once I get that Ziebart gunk off, it will slide in much better. So far, i don't see any major problems. Crossing my fingers...

Greg