Police HD steering

My imp

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I bought everything to convert the Imp to the police HD steering, tie rod aasy's, pitman, etc.. I want to re-seal the box, but don't have the Miller C-3988 & 3989 spanners to loosen & torque the spanner nuts. Can't find any on eBay or online. If I can't re-seal it, can I use the fast ratio parts on the stock Imperial steering gear? Thanks, Larry
 

My imp

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Talked to Jasperjacko & he seems to remember reading in one of the Mopar Magazines about a company (other than Miller) who makes the tools to rebuild our powering boxes. Anyone remember the name of the co., or magazine?
 

My imp

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No you aren't displaying your ignorance, they are the right (or close enough for government work!) ones. Truth be told, they look considerately better than the Miller tools! The Miller tools are 1/2 circles with only 2 slots covered at a time. One little slip, & the Miller tool is junk! Also no ext. on tool. You have to set your torque wrench to 200 lb/ft! That probably means a 3/4" drive torque wrench. The FSM says 200, Motech 250, that's definitely 3/4" territory! Thanks again. There's a guy on eBay with a set like that & I'm waiting for an email to see if they're the right size spanners. Once again, thank you very much Kostas! In case I don't get a chance, Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!
 

Rotax

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The description says they built in leverage so you can set your torque wrench to 140 lbs
 

My imp

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Not with the Miller tool, which is what I was talking about. Look in the FSM on pg. 41 at the end of the chapter where it shows pictures of the C-3988 & C-3989. Those are what I'm talking about! I was pointing out how inferior the Miller tools were in comparison, & probably twice the price of the Motech items. Started the front end on the Imp tonight. What a difference between the stock & heavy duty (11/16") tie rod ends! I'll wait untill I get back from Va. Beach to do the steering gear. If everything goes to plan & the back holds out, tomorrow I'll bead blast the control arms & install new ball joints, Energy Suspension bushings (control & sway), torsion bar (poly) bushings.i already installed the bushings in new shells, so all I'll have to do is press the old ones out of the control arms, & press in the new. If I get that done, it's on to get rid of that damn external mounted Holley (Ginsu POS edition) electric pump. That whirring has no place on a luxury vehicle! I have the Delphi tank mounted unit & external regulator, as well as rolls of tubing in case I need to run new lines. If I get THAT done, I have leaf spring poly pads, as well as eyelet, sway bar, & end links to put in. If I get that done, it's time for a double dose of Opana 40's!!!!!
 

My imp

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Not with the Miller tool, which is what I was talking about. Look in the FSM on pg. 41 at the end of the chapter where it shows pictures of the C-3988 & C-3989. Those are what I'm talking about! I was pointing out how inferior the Miller tools were in comparison, & probably twice the price of the Motech items. Started the front end on the Imp tonight. What a difference between the stock & heavy duty (11/16") tie rod ends! I'll wait untill I get back from Va. Beach to do the steering gear. If everything goes to plan & the back holds out, tomorrow I'll bead blast the control arms & install new ball joints, Energy Suspension bushings (control & sway), torsion bar (poly) bushings.i already installed the bushings in new shells, so all I'll have to do is press the old ones out of the control arms, & press in the new. If I get that done, it's on to get rid of that damn external mounted Holley (Ginsu POS edition) electric pump. That whirring has no place on a luxury vehicle! I have the Delphi tank mounted unit & external regulator, as well as rolls of tubing in case I need to run new lines. If I get THAT done, I have leaf spring poly pads, as well as eyelet, sway bar, & end links to put in. If I get that done, it's time for a double dose of Opana 40's!!!!!

For a 30+ year old car, the Imp came apart quite easy. I wish the same could be said for the POS Ginsu brand of bed liner the PO used on EVERYTHING under the car. At least he masked the drive shaft so I didn't get that thrum, thrum, thrum going down the road. Once I finish getting that crud off, it's time to hit the bead blaster! My 84 yr old Mom owes me a day of parts cleaning/bead blasting,( she lost a SURE THING bet) but I knew she'd never pay up on that! Not that I don't love bead blasting, it's as close to playing (that, & cutting stuff up w/a plasma) that a mechanic gets. Kinda like coloring in reverse, or painting everything "New Metal" color? May have a line on new poly bushings for crossmember. I wonder if the round ones in the Energy Suspension #5.4111G would work in our cars? The slot is oval, only the O.D. is round. I'm not an engineer & don't know if that small amount of contact area loss is to great for the load? Anyone try them? If this source pans out, the poly can be made as hard as aluminum! Best of both worlds! Will keep you posted.
 

My imp

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Kostas, I finally made it over to my father's house to check those Motech Performance P/S gearbox spanner wrenches. Ooohhh! Aaahhh! Nice precision fit on both sizes of spanner nuts, not a bit of slop!
 

alf44

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i use a 1/2 inch drive torque wrench at work ,its a 250 lb/ft and never slips. nice when you dont have a lot of room to use those larger sockets in tight places
 

My imp

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i use a 1/2 inch drive torque wrench at work ,its a 250 lb/ft and never slips. nice when you dont have a lot of room to use those larger sockets in tight places

Which sockets are you referring to?
 

alf44

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just a comment on torque wrenches that a good 1/2 inch drive will work up to that torque value of 250
 

alf44

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a 3/4 or 1inch drive torque wrench would be nice to have but then i would need to buy all new sockets and those things are spendy and huge. i do have a cheap set at work in the 1 inch size made in china . 40 bucks 10 years ago. sockets are so big that they kinda get hard to use.. just my thoughts,lol
 

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I have a Snap-On TQR or TQDR (I forget which) 1/2" torque wrench that goes from 50-250 ft. lbs., which should be plenty for cars. The "Big Iron" diesel mechanics at work have 3/4" and 1" torque wrenches, and impact guns as well. They sort of look ridiculously large to me, but I suppose if I were doing wheel/tire changes on 18 wheelers, I'd have better appreciation for them.

The really ridiculous looking tools are the >2" combination wrenches. they are what I call "Bugs Bunny" (the cartoon show) wrenches, due to their looking so oversized, they look like some of the sledgehammers cartoon characters hit each other with. One of the 3" combination wrenches probably weighs close to 50 lbs. And sometimes they aren't up to the job, so they use a 1" hydraulic impact wrench. That is stupid heavy.

Kostas
 
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My imp

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That's what I used. My impacts run from a Snap-On 3/8" butterfly, IR 1/2" std & 3" anvil, IR 1" XHD with 1" to 3/4" adapter. That's the only gun I have that'll break loose the pinion nut on the Rockwell rear ends. That's the only way you can change a pinion seal, if you want it done right. I have a 3/4" torque wrench that's not the easiest thing to wield in tight spaces as you might guess. But I'm not in shape enough to be doing that work anyways. That 14" extensions on the wrenches will make life much easier. The stock Miller tools only caught 3 of the slots on the spanner nuts on the gear boxes. The Motech wrenches catch all 8 slots in a continuous ring that encompasses the entire nut, vs the Miller which could spread, or possibly break the nut, because it doesn't distribute the load over the entire nut. I only wish they'd chamfered the edges of the wrenches before they plated them. I'd give them an 8.5 out of 10!
 

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The only real difference between the "firm feel" steering box and the standard one is the reaction spring. One stinkin' little cheese-monkey part... but of course you have to disassemble the box to change it. The other difference is that they were built with hand-selected parts, which of course isn't an option to the home player unless you have 10 extra steering boxes disassembled to check tolerances against numbers to which you don't have access. :eusa_wall:
 

My imp

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Luckily, it's a box out of a Police car. The thing turned with two fingers w/o even a hint of binding. I want to merely inspect & reseal the box. Of course a trip to my bead blast cabinet along the way. Along with a chuck up in the lathe & a crank polish won't hurt! Add that to the myth of the "No less than 20 years line experience to build Imperials" to assure build quality. Good thing they didn't put any newbies on that line, or they never would've made it out of the factory. Hand selected parts means the one on top, or easiest to get to!
 

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Someone did an article years ago where they ripped apart two brand-new Mopar steering boxes, one being a Firm Feel. Sure enough, it was much closer to "as-designed" specifications inside. I probably still have the article somewhere but it's not worth bringing the shovel in the house to try and find it. That F-body big-block swap article I sent to kkritsalis was right on top of one of the piles. :icon_biggrin:
 

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Chrysler's ability for self promotion has achieved high art status over the years. Jasperjacko told me of an article on Mopar blocks. All the stuff that's been published over the years is supposedly BS. While working for an engine shop, we always sonic tested the blocks before grout filling. There never seemed to be year to year differences, only QC issues. Now I didn't do hundreds of blocks, so I don't feel like passing judgement by the half dozen or so I did. Whether the figure "8" water passages in the "motor home" blocks, or the bosses by the mount meant anything or not, who can say? I've read it for years, in many publications, both factory & aftermarket, about supposedly stronger blocks. Marketing? Who knows. I like to find the reportedly stronger blocks, whenever possible. Whether its true, or not, can't say. But as sue happy as everyone is these days, if not true, I'm surprised no one has sued them for false advertising! lol
 

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There's definitely some BS out there about blocks, but it's not all false information.

There's an article on 440Source's website about big blocks, and there actually are a lot of differences over the years. All Chrysler ever really said was not to take the later big blocks more than .020" over, the printed reason was "thinner walls". The truth of the matter is that the late B/RB blocks often have slightly thicker cylinder walls. The concern was actually metallurgical, as the '76-'78 blocks are of a slightly softer (lower nickel/tin) alloy. It was just easier to explain it to Joe Public in simple terms. That information was actually released when the blocks were new, though, and time has proven it to be a non-concern, especially as the blocks have actually gotten a stronger with use. Heat cycling is a beautiful thing. Thank the B/RB engines' ridiculously long connecting rods and excellent rod:stroke ratio. There's so little side load on the pistons that accelerated cylinder wear or failure did not become the issue they'd expected. The same lesser alloy was used in the small blocks of the era, but I have absolutely no concerns over the strength of the '78 360 block sitting in my garage.

The one that's complete trash, and I don't know where it started, is the "early 360" myth. This one centers around the water jackets. According to the legend the '71-'73 360 blocks have thicker cylinder liners because they were made with 340 water-jacket cores. The casting process isn't that simple, especially with a somewhat complex casting like an engine block. With the minor revisions made in the bottom end for the larger crank bearings, the jacket core mold has to be specific. Then there are the obvious questions: if the preceding scenario was the case, why would Chrysler change to a specific 360 water-jacket core after three years of success using the 340 core? If the 340 water jacket and crankcase were sufficient to house the 360 crank, why didn't they just start boring 340 blocks to only 4.00" and cutting larger mains, and simply use a new casting number on existing tooling, if at all? I mean, think about it: the Direct Connection race 340 block (the "X" block) used a 318 casting number. No matter; no reputable engine builder with whom I'm familiar has ever actually ever found such a block, and those who claim they exist cannot provide any evidence to back up their claims. Yet, guys will fall all over themselves and pay big extra dollars for the "good" '71-'73 block. If you're one of those guys, please let me know. I know the location of no less than six early 360s, all sleeping quietly in junkyards. Before you ask, I already took all the J heads. :eusa_dance:

I think my favorite one, though, has got to be the "dash number" myth. This is the last number on the block casting ID, such as 2780930-340-6. I've had it told to me over and again that this is the number of cylinder-liner cores that were replaced during the making of the original mold. I have no idea where this one started, but it was the subject of a magazine article many years back. While replacing a broken core is possible, it's not what you'd call "advised." I'd love to meet the adventurous soul that decided the -9 block in my '85 AHB was a go. :icon_biggrin: Though able to withstand 3,000° molten steel, sand molds of any kind are fragile things. Anyone who's ever worked in the production area of a foundry could tell you that anything more than one trashed core would probably result in the mold being scrapped, and it's likely that even one would fail the overall mold. However, that's not even the truly laughable part. The casting number is part of the tooling used to make the mold (the "pattern"). You can't change the casting number of a mold. Period. It is simply not possible. You can change the number on the tooling, yes, but once a mold is made from it, you are stuck with whatever identifying marks were on the pattern that made it. I've also been "told" that the -6 340s were the T/A blocks, the number denoting to their carburetion. Uh ,no. If you have a T/A block, trust me, you'll know it by the big "TA" in the casting number and the thicker main webs.

Mixed truth/myth: the .040" overbore rule. This is the largest overbore Chrysler recommends on any LA/B/RB block (all of which are thinwall castings), and they're right. Yes, there are thousands of .060" engines out there running happily every day with no problems... that's where the myth part comes into play. No, going .060" over will not cause you to blow out a cylinder wall; that was never the concern. The concern is that above ~.045" past original, the cylinder walls will actually flex in hard usage, compromising ring seal and causing a loss of power in comparison to what you'd make at .040" or less. You've got to remember, these recommendations were made by Chrysler powerplant engineers of the '60s and '70s. Tom Hoover & his crew were hardcore racers; the Ramchargers were all guys that worked in the Chrysler engine labs. They designed the stuff in the first place and those recommendations were for similar-minded guys. Will you notice an issue in your daily-driven Fifth Avenue? No. It'll go tens of thousands of miles without so much as a hiccup. I know of a +.090" 318 with about ten years' use on it, in fact (I would not recommend attempting this, in fact I attribute it's longevity to light use and dumb luck). Would you see it on a dyno pull? Yes, assuming you had a smaller-bore engine of exact spec otherwise to use as a baseline, like your dyno sheet prior to the larger overbore assuming nothing else changed. If you're going racing, stick with the smaller overbore and get every last HP out of your engine. Blocks are cheap. If you're building a weekend cruiser/daily driver, don't worry about it. Yes, I'm aware of the effects of "positive" or "good" core shift in the major thrust direction for larger overbores, but it's not worth exploring in this thread.
 
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