Restore it or Part it?

[Justwondering]

I'm planning my first trip to an older models boneyard (ctcautoranch over in Denton County, Texas).

I'm looking for 1) a driveline for a 1961 pontiac tempest - manual
and
2) just taking pictures of older cars

If I'm walking through these rows of cars, they all have rust. They all sit out in the weather all year.

From other threads, it sounds like the order of (walk away down to its possible) is:
1. Rusted so bad you can see daylight, all metal is gone
2. Rust so thick it breaks off in layers
3. Rusted down below the paint but scratch it and there is metal
4. Rusty streaks in the paint but no holes or thick areas of rust

Is that about right?

 

[Aspen500]

Sounds about right to me!
Obviously, one and two would apply to any Wisconsin cars that somehow made it into that yard, lol.

 

[BudW]

I been wanting to go down there, myself. Wouldn’t mind meeting you there, as well

Question for you. You mention you are looking for driveline for your Tempest.
Are you are saying you are looking for an “engine, transmission and differential”?
Just the engine?
An “engine and transmission”?

The next thing one needs to do is find out what fits, directly, and what will fit indirectly.
I’m not an GM person, but I do have access to some Hollander interchange books.
Knowledge is power. You don’t want to pass by what will work, nor do you want to purchase something that won’t fit.

Next question.
What does the 4 layers of rust (sic) you mentioned, have to do with a driveline, or are you are looking for more than mechanical parts?

Picture taking. A whole different topic by itself.

Before going, you may want to make sure they will allow you to “roam”.

Becky, I sent you a couple of pictures.

 

[Justwondering]

BudW...
Two unrelated topics.. rust and driveline.

I'll send you some pictures.
Best I can tell from my research..
1961 - 1963 Pontiac Tempest had the tophy 4 engine (half of a 389) and a 'rope drive'. Was only made 3 years.
There is a difference in length between manual (what I have) and automatic (only things I've found for sale).
When folks say they have pontiac/tempest parts, they usually mean they have 1964 and newer. They also usually assume you want a normal transmission/driveline/differential setup like in the early LeMans. That is not what I'm looking for.

We need to get you a day off to come down to Texas so I can show you the car and we can go to the boneyard!

Til then, here's a link to article in 'The Truth About Cars'...
Tempest Cross Section - The Truth About Cars

 

[Justwondering]

My backup plan is to see what it takes to modify a porsche 924/928 torque tube to use with the tempest. Spline count is obviously going to be a concern, so is length of the tube.

Need to get more rock down so I can drag the tempest from dad's up to my place.

But of course, the Chrysler still needs the mouse removed and the trim finished before I go to far down this road.

Just gathering info at this stage.

 

[kkritsilas]

You might want to talk to some of the 928 parts suppliers and see if they can help. There used to be one that could make Torque Tubes to any specfication you wanted, but they were not cheap. The could make them out of steel, aluminum, or carbon fiber. Gettting a used 928 torque tube can be hit or miss, as they have a tendency to twist the drive shaft inside the torque tube, which causes the shaft to bend, and then takes the bearings out inside the torque tube. A lot of that is because the 928 is a very heavy car, with a powerful V8, so the Torque Tube get a lot of stress put on it.

You can probably find the Torque Tube vendor on the Rennlist.

 

[BudW]

Well, I can say I don’t know much about this car (which is about 5 years older than I am).

I have a feeling finding parts for this car may be very fun, and fabrication may end up being the way to go.

The newer Corvettes also have the transmission/rear differential located in rear of car – which are more troublesome than the Camaros are (not sure why – I would think Camaros are driven harder than the average Corvette is).

The Plymouth Prowler also uses a “similar” system – but there are not many of them out there though. What they did was take the North/South front wheel drive transmission (transaxle), taken from the ’93-04 Concord/300M/Intrepid (LH body) and place it in rear of vehicle, with engine in front of car. Chrysler then used a somewhat normal looking propeller shaft (driveshaft) from engine to transaxle. A majority of Prowler powertrain components interchange with the LH body cars.

Adapting a corvette powertrain might be an option (expensive though), then you would have a ’61 body on a ‘11 powertrain (you might as well drive the Corvette).

GM does use common Bell Housings – so if your engine does use a common Bell Housing bolt pattern, then you do have engine choices available to you – if you can’t get existing engine running again.

Are you having transmission problems?
It not, you may be in luck – for the torque tube, transmission and differential appear to be the hard part to find mechanical parts for.


“Rope Drove” sounds like a pirate ship foreman encouragement (punishment, or example) system used on its captive crew (along with a whip)

 

[Justwondering]

BudW....
You are not gonna believe this.
I've been searching for years for parts for this car with limited success. Ran across an article last night and in it were two links -- 1 dead and 1 for a company in tulsa - East West Auto Parts.
The guy is a pontiac man and says he has plenty of the cars and parts from same. Its mail order only, so more expensive, but at least its a place to get something viable.

Still going over to ctcautoranch to check things out. But, it looks like I have another option as well.

 

[BudW]

I used to live not far from East West (moved to OKC before they opened).
A couple of blocks from there, WAS a Mopar only auto salvage (not there any more).
A couple of years ago, there three Mopar only auto salvages in Oklahoma. Now there is only one.

 

[360 mafia]

What the hell!! What happenex to the days when mopar ruled everything?Now its all chevy or that stupid ford mustang.This planet sucks!

 

[BudW]

Need to get more rock down so I can drag the tempest from dad's up to my place.

How far is “Dad’s place” to yours?

Is rock needed on your place, his place, both?

Are you not able to get transmission out of gear or is brakes rusted solid (or both)?
If brakes are rusted and/or stuck in gear), do you have access to a trailer to move said vehicle with? A car tow dolly?
(Note: both are on my want list).

Leaving the parking brakes on for an extended period, can cause the brake shoes to rust onto brake drums – which can be fun to un-stick (and/or brake cables rust/seize up, etc.).

BudW

 

[Justwondering]

17 miles one way to dad's
I'm out of steam this week.
Too much rain and I had testing or doctor visits tues/wed/thurs and friday. Drove almost 1,000 miles this week.

Since the tempest has a transaxle at the rear of the car, I'm thinking I have to have the drivetrain to unlock the engine... but then we all know how good I am at reading the service manual.

Its just an odd duck made for only 3 years with that trophy 4 and the rear transaxle.

I'll get back to you on your questions/answers this weekend.

 

[hemijoe]

the drive line of the tempest is from a corvair 100 percent front syspension and full rear transaxle the torque tube is the only part that pontiac built

 

[Justwondering]

Hemijoe ---
I didn't think the rear on the 61 tempest could interchange with the corvair. Live and learn.
Tell me you have one you want to send my way and we are friends for life. lol

 

[hemijoe]

there is a guy on ebay that sells corvair pars in the us with very good prices he can help you out for sure

 

[hemijoe]

Hemijoe ---
I didn't think the rear on the 61 tempest could interchange with the corvair. Live and learn.
Tell me you have one you want to send my way and we are friends for life. lol

here you go a complete corvair rear setup 1964 Corvair 4 Speed Engine & Transmission

and a complete 61 tempest parts car 1961 Pontiac Tempest

 

[Justwondering]

Thanks Hemijoe..
Saw the blue car on craigslist for 1800 a month ago, but is an automatic and the length of the driveshaft is too long compared to my manual tempest.

But I get where you are coming from.

Its a scavenger hunt and I need to be persistent.

 

[hemijoe]

Thanks Hemijoe..
Saw the blue car on craigslist for 1800 a month ago, but is an automatic and the length of the driveshaft is too long compared to my manual tempest.

But I get where you are coming from.

Its a scavenger hunt and I need to be persistent.

remeber the wheelbase is the same on a 4 door as a 2 door

 

[Justwondering]

quote:
The two halves of the drivetrain/powertrain combination were joined with the ‘rope drive’. This was a one piece, flexible shaft of 87.25″ (2216mm) in length on automatic cars, 82.3″ (2090mm) on manuals. The diameter was 0.65″ (16.5mm) on automatics, 0.75″ (19.0mm) on manuals.
unquote

I was more concerned about the torque tube and drive line rather than the overall length of the car.

 

[hemijoe]

i had a 63 tempest with the 326 in it and swapped in a 421SD that was 30 years ago with the stock 4 spd that thing was quick but the front suspesion was crap the corvair front end was never made to handle