School me on used auto part shopping!

moreada

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I have a Mirada with a 2bbl Lean burn 318, and came across this ad. I presume the carb needs a rebuild, but does this look worth inquiring about?

1974 Dodge/Chrysler 318 340/360 4-barrel Intake and Carb | Engine & Engine Parts | Oshawa / Durham Region | Kijiji

I am a bit new to buying used parts and such, but am looking to ditch the lean burn, and will be doing the usual bolt ons in time as well - headers, exhaust, cam and heads, but wonder if this may be a good start for a nice peppy street setup. Thanks
 

78VOLAREWAG

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I have a Mirada with a 2bbl Lean burn 318, and came across this ad. I presume the carb needs a rebuild, but does this look worth inquiring about?
I have a Mirada with a 2bbl Lean burn 318, and came across this ad. I presume the carb needs a rebuild, but does this look worth inquiring about?

1974 Dodge/Chrysler 318 340/360 4-barrel Intake and Carb | Engine & Engine Parts | Oshawa / Durham Region | Kijiji

I am a bit new to buying used parts and such, but am looking to ditch the lean burn, and will be doing the usual bolt ons in time as well - headers, exhaust, cam and heads, but wonder if this may be a good start for a nice peppy street setup. Thanks
I would nab it! I would want know if it is EGR or not.
1974 Dodge/Chrysler 318 340/360 4-barrel Intake and Carb | Engine & Engine Parts | Oshawa / Durham Region | Kijiji

I am a bit new to buying used parts and such, but am looking to ditch the lean burn, and will be doing the usual bolt ons in time as well - headers, exhaust, cam and heads, but wonder if this may be a good start for a nice peppy street setup. Thanks
 

BudW

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It took me a while to figure out what 78VolareWag was saying - but I believe it say "I would nab it! I would want to know if it is EGR or not".

The intake shown does have EGR.
It might worth $75.00 - but I recommend to pass and get something else (explained in next post).
BudW
 

BudW

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Moreada, where about do you reside at? The answer is not too critical but it is helpful.


I see and I have a few questions about the ad you have presented.
74 intake TQ m.jpg

The intake is cast iron – and is not fun for us old timers to install (or even remove) when bent over a fender.

The intake shown is not a ’74 model. It is a ‘78 to ’84 piece because of the smaller and angled bolt holed thermostat housing (black arrow, above). If will fit on any FMJ-body small block engine (which I will discuss more on that, later) without A/C or with the Aluminum C171 A/C compressor. It will not fit on cars using the cast iron RV2 A/C compressor.

About ½ of all Thermoquad carburetors are good ones (mostly the early ones). The other ½, the later ones (which includes all used on FMJ cars), are not as user friendly. What I would want to know before buying any Thermoquad is what the Model number is. It will be on the Left side rear corner on base plate and will look something like this:
eBay TQ.jpg

Black arrow location
9103s TQ picture.jpg

pictures swiped from eBay.

The top line will look something like 9123s (which is the only important number on the carburetor – which is the Model number). The bottom line will look like 123 4 (which is 123rd day of ‘74 (or ’84).
In the case of the above photo it says 9103s (second line) 179 7. Based with this information, the Model number is 9103s, which came off of a 1977 B or C-body 400 ci automatic car (non-High Performance). It is a 49-state calibration (not California). This one also has an Idle Enrichment attachment and has a High Altitude compensator. It also has large primary bores (which most big blocks came with, anyway).
The date code tells me carburetor was made on the 179th day of 1977. This particular carburetor (the one in MY photos) rates in the middle of choices (not the best but not the worse choice).

The carburetor in the ad – I do not know enough to recommend it, or not. Not without more information about.

When looking at a used carburetor, always make sure all shafts and linkages operate freely. In this case you have the primary shaft (attached to throttle stud), the secondary shaft (may have to finger a couple of linkages to get that shaft to fully operate), the choke shaft, the air valve shaft (big trap door on top back, and so forth. If anything is not free or will not operate – just walk away and don’t look back.

The choke mechanism shaft is missing from this picture (yellow circle on top photo) – so you will need to get a Thermoquad choke mechanism (white arrow, top photo) to get correct missing part (which is not a bad idea, anyway).

As far as intakes go, there are two different sizes. 318 2-bbl and 4-bbl (non-police) as well as 340/360/318 4-bbl police.
Either will bolt onto each other – but you will have a major port size mismatch.

When looking at small block cylinder heads or intakes, the way I can tell them apart is I take a hand with all fingers pointed straight ahead. I take my thumb and hold back the little finger (so only the middle three fingers are sticking forward). Then stick those three fingers into the cylinder head port or bottom side intake port.
If all three fingers fit upright into hole (or mostly fit) then you have a 340/360 (or 318 Police) head or intake.
If there is no possible way for all three fingers to fit – then it is a normal 318 port (unless you have really small hands).

Being that you already have a 2-bbl – you will want to stick with the small 318 port intake. A true 4-bbl 318 intakes are not easy to find. The intake I highly recommend, in this case, is the Edelbrock Performer (not the Performer RPM, which is different) part # 2176 (or # 3776 if you plan on using EGR). It looks almost like a factory intake, but is much lighter and works better.



My thoughts about this ad purchase. IF (a big if) I was going to use a cast iron intake and if carburetor was a good unit (working and had a good or decent Model number) – it might be worth $75 – but I would pass and here is why:
Personally, I would not install a cast iron intake onto any engine – when aluminum aftermarket (or Mopar Performance) intakes make more power, they lighten the car, and are mucho easier on the ole back to install (see above notes).

Also, Thermoquad is by far my favorite carburetor. I would get one of the good ones, though (eBay or other). Let me know if you find one and I can give you my opinion on it. If seller does not give you the numbers - from the location provided, above - then educate them or walk away.


Other items you will need, is air cleaner. Having a 4-bbl factory air cleaner is best if you live in a cold weather area because of the exhaust heated air. If you live down South (like Florida, Mexico, etc.) then any 4-bbl air cleaner will work.

Sense the carburetor is located further forward on intake, the throttle cable is longer. A 2-bbl throttle cable will almost barely fit – BUT I HIGHLY DO NOT RECOMMEND USING ONE. One blip on the throttle, the engine will tilt to the passenger side and now your throttle is stuck OPEN. Not a good thing and it will CREATE a BAD DAY, real quick.
You can purchase a new throttle cable fairly inexpensively - and a lot cheaper than a car replacement and/or a hospital stay.

The next hard part is to locate EITHER a proper small block 4-bbl transmission kickdown linkage or (much easier) get an aftermarket kickdown cable system. IF you don’t do this – you will have transmission failure in a few short miles. IF you do the cable (or proper linkage), then everything will be great.

If any questions, ask away.
BudW
 

moreada

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Well I am back to scratching my head. Used parts to get an old school setup sounds cool but maybe not as effective use of time and money as originally thought. Seeing as its the original motor, maybe I will shelf it for a while.

It would seem I am pondering a motor swap, or whether I can turbo a 318. My biggest gripe with the car is the automatic transmission, and am giving heavy consideration to a manual swap of some sort, so a motor swap makes sense.

Given the amount of work and my desire to have something more streetable - an EFI based setup may be a wise choice. Carbs are cool, but EFI may be a bit more suitable if I go turbo. A Magnum would be a nice choice regardless of NA/Turbo, but them damned heads seem to be an issue. I see that LA 360 heads will lower compression on a 318 block, which may play nice with a mild turbo setup, no? With the price of a 318 bottom end, it wouldn't be an expensive endeavour... right? haha

I also hear that going from 8-1/4 and drums to something with disc brakes and an LSD would be wise, but the cheap part of me only sees the Ford 8.8 as the reasonable cheap choice, and that may be blasphemy... my original goal was as much factory stuff as possible... quickly going out the window in the name of fun tho.

Now I just gotta learn how to find used drivetrains :S
 

6thGenImperial

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Play your cards right and you can snag an Edelbrock Performer for around $100. Lotta rebuildable carbs as well, TQ's, but also Edelbrock AFB-style carbs (originally by Carter). Whats the issue with Magnum heads? LA 360 heads will make a significant drop in CR, allowing for more boost, but turbos never really caught on til electronics got good enough to manage them. Are you a tuner? Carbs? Get a supercharger.
 

kkritsilas

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The LA heads also cracked, but not at the rate at which Magnum heads do. There is a very thin section between the valves in the Magnum heads between the valves, and this is where the cracking occurs. It happens in normal operation, not just overheating, or operating with low coolant levels. The EngineQuest Heads ere specifically designed to eliminate this issue, and have thicker material in that area (actually the entire deck surface is thicker). It just happens that the manager of the design team was also an enthusiast, so not only did the deck thickness issue get resolved, the ports and bowls were also improved (especially the exhaust ports) to the point that not only do they outflow the best LA heads, they outflow the Magnum heads as well. There is an article on the EngineQuest heads, and the design process in one of the Mopar oriented magazines, not too far back.
 
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6thGenImperial

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The LA heads also cracked, but not at the rate at which Magnum heads do. There is a very thin section between the valves in the Magnum heads between the valves, and this is where the cracking occurs. It happens in normal operation, not just overheating, or operating with low coolant levels. The EngineQuest Heads ere specifically designed to eliminate this issue, and have thicker material in that area (actually the entire deck surface is thicker). It just happens that the manager of the design team was also an enthusiast, so not only did the deck thickness issue get resolved, the ports and bowls were also improved (especially the exhaust ports) to the point that not only do they outflow the best LA heads, they outflow the Magnum heads as well. There is an article on the EngineQuest heads, and the design process in one of the Mopar oriented magazines, not too far back.
I'd be interested in the actual percentages of cracking. Remember, LA 318 heads had more meat already because of smaller ports and valves, so only LA 360s )heck, count the 340's too) would be the real problem heads back to their introduction, and the total production numbers of them vs ALL 318 and 360 Magnum heads, being that they were identical, and I'd venture were produced in much higher numbers. I had EngineQuest in mind when referencing the aftermarket, just couldn't think of the name.
 

BudW

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The only 318 cylinder heads I see bad/damaged are warped bad enough to drive a truck underneath – usually from driving without sufficient coolant (like from water pump leak, leaking freeze plug, etc.).
Generally this also occurs with a blown head gasket.

I would say most 340/360 LA cylinder heads give little trouble. The early 340/360 heads (’68 to about ’73), I have seen some with cracks.
The Magnum cylinder heads – I would say most have cracks between the valves. I would also say a lot of them can be used for a long time without issues.
A cylinder head pressure test is the best way to check, both hot and cold. Most machine shops will not pressure test when hot (just don’t have the equipment to check).

Personally, if a machine shop checks out a cylinder head and says it’s OK to use, even with cracks – then I would use it. A lot of Magnum cylinder heads are safe to use, even cracked. That said, many cracked heads are only good for door stops, boat anchors, etc.
BudW
 
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