Wagon frustration

Kramer79

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Well I was hoping to have the wagon back to life... but I think I may have fried the starter but not sure how to tell. I was cranking it over for quite some time and I don’t think the mechanical fuel pump was priming well enough. I used ether and got some excellent quick runs... then drained the new battery. Charged it overnight and went back at it today trying to fill the carb bowl with some fuel, the stater just turned the engine a bit, now nothing happening... not sure how to replace the stater but I’ll start looking - or maybe starter and fuel pump! Or maybe list the wagon !
 

Mr C

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You sure the battery took the charge? What noises is it making...clicking?

Did you put a meter on the battery to be sure you had the voltage?

Replacing a starter is 2 bolts to the bell housing and 2 bolts securing the wires to the starter. Not rocket science...just fiddly. Note, this is if you do not have headers. If you have headers, double the time and aggravation.
 

Kramer79

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No clicking... just nothing. I hooked up jumper cables to my car just to make sure- still the same - but good to know only two bolts!
 

Aspen500

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You can check for voltage on the small wire at the starter, when the key is in the crank position. If there is none, check again at the relay on the firewall. The relay should click (not very loud though) when the key is turned to crank. If you were cranking for an extended period, there is a good chance the starter overheated and failed though, most likely the solenoid itself, as you say it doesn't even click. As long as there voltage on the battery cable @ the starter, and the cable can carry the amperage under load, you can "short" the two terminals together with a screwdriver to bypass the vehicle start circuit. If nothing happens or all you get are sparks, it is the starter that's failed.

Worst part about changing the starter (if it's the stock large size starter) is, wrestling the seemingly 100 lb thing around while laying on you back under the car.:D
 

Kramer79

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Thanks, no clicking so I will have to check the relay - is that drivers side with a multi wire plug going into it?
 

BudW

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It is not far from the brake booster, and yes, it has a black multi-wire plug-in and a single wire (black plug) -which goes to the starter.

Note: the battery has to have ~9 volts to crank the car and about 10.5 volts to actually start the car (when cranking). In most cases, you get down to 9 volts - its not doing anything.

If you find you need to replace the starter, get one for a '90 Dodge pickup 318 (or so) which will get you one of the mini starters. So much smaller, lighter and much easier to install. When you get one, don't bring your old one with you. Take the core back at a later date - or the parts clerk will get you the larger one instead. The mini starter will crank the engine over faster, which is another plus. The mini starter will fit without any issues, but sometimes you need to force the electrical connector on before attaching the two nuts. The mini starter nuts are metric and the large one is SAE, but every new starter I've bought came with new correct nuts.

BudW
 

Justwondering

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Kramer79 ...
even I was able to replace the starter on my Fifth Avenue.
The only thing is, I did not put back the oh-so-elegant- shield.
And you need to really tighten the bolts or they will back out.
And yes, hardest part was wrestling out the old heavy starter.
JW
 

Kramer79

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Thanks! I replaced the relay and nothing, starter came in the mail, I will see if I want to brave the cold weekend in the garage!
 

Kramer79

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New starter in, new relay... nothing must be a resistor or fuse? Does the brake light on the dash normally go on when trying to start?
 

DCAspen

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Is it turning over when you turn the key?
 

Kramer79

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It turns over like a few times, randomly. Starter has the same voltage as the battery, replaced the starter, relay... I even tried to jump start it. When I first hooked everything up (before new starter) it cranked over. Unless the econcraft cheap battery is bad? Gets like 12.5/6 volts reading after trickle charger. I’m thinking ignition control module, or park sensor switch? Not sure what else to test, I did the brown wire to the battery and the starter tried to move a bit... something seems to be stopping it from being able to crank ... maybe ignition itself is on the go?
 

AJ/FormS

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Just short across the two terminals of the starter at the starter, with a screwdriver or anything metallic . If it doesn't immediately crank like crazy, then jumper cable from the starter case to the battery ground to prove the ground-loop is good, then try again. If it still does not crank properly,then clean all the connections between the starter post and the battery positive post, and the negative as well, but leave the jumper cable ground loop.. then try again. If it still does not crank properly, now you can replace the starter.
The engine will not start during this test, unless the key is in the run position, and the ignition circuit is working. But it sure as heck should crank! Unless of course the battery is defective, but that is easy to loadtest.
 

Mikes5thAve

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It turns over like a few times, randomly. Starter has the same voltage as the battery, replaced the starter, relay... I even tried to jump start it. When I first hooked everything up (before new starter) it cranked over. Unless the econcraft cheap battery is bad? Gets like 12.5/6 volts reading after trickle charger. I’m thinking ignition control module, or park sensor switch? Not sure what else to test, I did the brown wire to the battery and the starter tried to move a bit... something seems to be stopping it from being able to crank ... maybe ignition itself is on the go?

ignition module has nothing to do with starter or cranking. If you can get solid voltage at the starter relay turning the key that rules out the neutral safety switch.
 

MiradaMegacab

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Old battery cables+ long crank time (2X starters+ new relay)+ good battery/ jumper cables= bad engine ground.

Solution, ground engine. Replace Negative battery cable
 

Kramer79

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Thanks bad ground would explain the occasional crank or two I get... I’ll try that next!
 

Kramer79

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I put a wrench briefly on the starter to connect both terminals- cranked away... so I’ll explore negative battery cable and maybe ignition relay in the fuse box next?
 

Mikes5thAve

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If the starter works the way it should when you do that you can rule out negative cable and ground. Its down to either the starter relay or ignition switch or the wiring that powers that stuff.
You can jump the wires at the relay to bypass ignition switch to check the relay. You can can also check for consistent power from the wire from ignition switch to relay, if that's not consistent you now it's a problem with the switch or that part of the wiring.
This diagram is a bit different but general idea. If you unplug the relay it should be labelled what the different terminals are for.


dodge-starter-solenoid-wiring-diagram-online-wiring-diagram.gif
 
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