MoparDan
Well-Known Member
Please move if this is in the wrong spot. What is needed to get rid of the Lean Burn? I know the carb and distributor need to be changed, what else? Also need to know what set up is the most reliable.
Time to get rid of the Lean Burn
- Thread starter MoparDan
- Start date
Oldiron440
Well-Known Member
Depending on the aplacation I have done it with a points distributor and rejetting the carb.
Hayzoos
Well-Known Member
I looked at getting a Mopar advance electronic distributor, and a Mopar electronic ignition module. The connector for the module is generally too expensive for a half decent looking one or even one that looks like crap. Cost $100 to $250 plus labor to install module, ballast resistor, and wire in 4 wire connector.
I'm looking at an OEM look HEI distributor and coil. MOPAR 273-318-340-360 BLACK Small Female Cap HEI Distributor Black 45K Volt Coil - SwapMeetParts For emissions stealth purposes, and make sure it fits. I need to find out if it uses an OEM cap and rotor. It can use OEM plug wires. Cost $100 plus a little less labor. I may not even have to unplug any wires from the cap.
I then considered a GM HEI module instead of the Mopar module. Connectors are far cheaper. But more labor to fab a mount with cooling. You need either a ballast with the factory coil or a different coil with a higher primary resistance. The replacement coils for small dist. cap HEI are usually 45KV oil filled looks like OEM, or 50KV "e-core". You don't want more than 50KV with a small cap or the spark will start to crossfire in the cap. If I knew I could fit the large cap between the engine/firewall/air cleaner and I didn't care about factory look for emissions inspection, I could see 65KV from the cap integrated coil. If I stick with the OEM style 45KV HEI coil, I can keep my relatively new 7mm plug wires. If I go to 50KV "e-core" coil, I would be better off changing to 8mm plug wires.
In all cases a new distributor with mechanical and vacuum advance will be required. You will have to connect vacuum, preferably ported, meaning from the carb above the throttle plate.
As far as the carb goes, I'll leave all the rest connected and see how it runs. The easiest 2-barrel swap though would be to a Carter BBD or Holley 2280 (sort of a clone of the BBD). They would bolt right up to the manifold and the air cleaner. Vacuum ports being correct depend on what the replacement came from but most if not all could be adapted. For emissons, you need one with a charcoal canister bowl vent connection.
Fuel injection is an option as well if you are willing to spend more. Fuel injection requires higher fuel pressure than carb, 12-30 psi for TBI or 50-90 psi for MPI, and even higher for GDI. GDI would be the most expensive conversion with major fabrication and engine modification. The more realistic options range from DIY build everything like a MegaSquirt and a suitable throttle body with injectors or change the intake manifold for MPI. TBI is lowest cost and labor and there are bolt on pre-made options like the Holley Sniper and others which can also interface to and sometimes control the ignition (influences ignition choices above). Most require a wide-band O2 sensor. I don't know if the "Lean Burn" O2 sensor is wide-band (probably not) but at least we would only have to change the sensor, not weld a bung into the exhaust.
Keep in mind the "Lean Burn" computer controlled the ignition timing, retarding if knock was sensed and more. It controlled air injection to the exhaust, purge of the charcoal vapor canister, EGR vacuum control, fuel mixture control, idle boost for A/C or electrical load, I might be missing something.
For complete mid to late 80's "Lean Burn" delete, at a minimum you have to provide an ignition system, and possibly address the fuel mixture. You could go back to point ignition and static mixture carb, or you could mix and match upgrade to more modern fuel injection, and electronic ignition.
I'm looking at an OEM look HEI distributor and coil. MOPAR 273-318-340-360 BLACK Small Female Cap HEI Distributor Black 45K Volt Coil - SwapMeetParts For emissions stealth purposes, and make sure it fits. I need to find out if it uses an OEM cap and rotor. It can use OEM plug wires. Cost $100 plus a little less labor. I may not even have to unplug any wires from the cap.
I then considered a GM HEI module instead of the Mopar module. Connectors are far cheaper. But more labor to fab a mount with cooling. You need either a ballast with the factory coil or a different coil with a higher primary resistance. The replacement coils for small dist. cap HEI are usually 45KV oil filled looks like OEM, or 50KV "e-core". You don't want more than 50KV with a small cap or the spark will start to crossfire in the cap. If I knew I could fit the large cap between the engine/firewall/air cleaner and I didn't care about factory look for emissions inspection, I could see 65KV from the cap integrated coil. If I stick with the OEM style 45KV HEI coil, I can keep my relatively new 7mm plug wires. If I go to 50KV "e-core" coil, I would be better off changing to 8mm plug wires.
In all cases a new distributor with mechanical and vacuum advance will be required. You will have to connect vacuum, preferably ported, meaning from the carb above the throttle plate.
As far as the carb goes, I'll leave all the rest connected and see how it runs. The easiest 2-barrel swap though would be to a Carter BBD or Holley 2280 (sort of a clone of the BBD). They would bolt right up to the manifold and the air cleaner. Vacuum ports being correct depend on what the replacement came from but most if not all could be adapted. For emissons, you need one with a charcoal canister bowl vent connection.
Fuel injection is an option as well if you are willing to spend more. Fuel injection requires higher fuel pressure than carb, 12-30 psi for TBI or 50-90 psi for MPI, and even higher for GDI. GDI would be the most expensive conversion with major fabrication and engine modification. The more realistic options range from DIY build everything like a MegaSquirt and a suitable throttle body with injectors or change the intake manifold for MPI. TBI is lowest cost and labor and there are bolt on pre-made options like the Holley Sniper and others which can also interface to and sometimes control the ignition (influences ignition choices above). Most require a wide-band O2 sensor. I don't know if the "Lean Burn" O2 sensor is wide-band (probably not) but at least we would only have to change the sensor, not weld a bung into the exhaust.
Keep in mind the "Lean Burn" computer controlled the ignition timing, retarding if knock was sensed and more. It controlled air injection to the exhaust, purge of the charcoal vapor canister, EGR vacuum control, fuel mixture control, idle boost for A/C or electrical load, I might be missing something.
For complete mid to late 80's "Lean Burn" delete, at a minimum you have to provide an ignition system, and possibly address the fuel mixture. You could go back to point ignition and static mixture carb, or you could mix and match upgrade to more modern fuel injection, and electronic ignition.
Mikes5thAve
Well-Known Member
You need to change the carb. The feedback carb 80 cars have depend on the computer to work properly. Get a BBD or 2280.
I'm not sure what you mean about the connector for the ecu being too expensive the mopar performance one is only $20-$25 for the whole harness you need to do the conversion. It's under $20 at Jegs.
If you don't want to spend the money on a complete kit get a used or rebuilt vacuum distributor.
No setup is more reliable then another, they're all Chinese parts now. It depends on if you want to stick with the mopar setup or go GM with hei or something else.
Replace that control arm and the front end safe before messing around with this.
I'm not sure what you mean about the connector for the ecu being too expensive the mopar performance one is only $20-$25 for the whole harness you need to do the conversion. It's under $20 at Jegs.
If you don't want to spend the money on a complete kit get a used or rebuilt vacuum distributor.
No setup is more reliable then another, they're all Chinese parts now. It depends on if you want to stick with the mopar setup or go GM with hei or something else.
Replace that control arm and the front end safe before messing around with this.
MoparDan
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the responses, since the set-ups all have the same reliability, I'm leanings towards a Mopar set-up over GM, fuel injection is not an option-I'd have a new(er) car if I wanted that. Now the BBD is an earlier carb and the 2280 is later right? Is one carb better then the other? The guy who will be doing the swap has another customer with an '86 or '87 Ramcharger with a factory 2bbl carb and has tuned it before, that would be the 2280 right? The control arm would've been fixed by now if not for my Wife's heart issues...will be tightened ect once she's out of the hospital...
Note: I'm still open to any and all suggestions, reliability is most important
Note: I'm still open to any and all suggestions, reliability is most important
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I’ve had a Pro-form ignition system (supposed to be an officially licensed Mopar replacement) with a MSD Blaster 2 coil and 0.8ohm ballast resistor on my car since early 2019. Haven’t had any issues with it as a daily driver, car always starts like a top and idles and accelerates smooth.
I know I have a harness for the conversion in the garage, possibly a ignition module and distributor (not 100% sure on the last two), I’ll see if I can find them in the garage. @MoparDan, you’d be welcome to them If I can find them.
I know I have a harness for the conversion in the garage, possibly a ignition module and distributor (not 100% sure on the last two), I’ll see if I can find them in the garage. @MoparDan, you’d be welcome to them If I can find them.
Mr C
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In my experience, both the 2280 (89 5th Ave) and BBD (84 Diplomat) have proven to be absolutely reliable. However, the 2280 has had an off-idle stumble that I have never been able to rectify. The BBD is smooth.
MoparDan
Well-Known Member
Thanks!
Mikes5thAve
Well-Known Member
Bbd is older then 2280. The ram charger is either 2280 or 6280 (feedback).
They all look almost identical.
They all look almost identical.
MoparDan
Well-Known Member
Then it has a 2280 no computer, the carb looks like mine which I know is a feedback carb
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MoparDan
Well-Known Member
Can you get parts for the BBD still? That's a Carter carb right?
Mr C
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Yep Carter BBD. Last I saw rebuild kits were out there for the BBD, but it's been a while.
MoparDan
Well-Known Member
How hard is it to find a carburetor?
Hayzoos
Well-Known Member
You're in luck: FOR SALE - "Remanufactrued" BBD for a 318
The yellow cap is a ported vacuum connection you will need to connect to the distributor vacuum advance.
That is a very good price too.
You will want to know if the remanufacture was done with ethanol fuel compatible parts. If unknown, I would buy a ethanol compatible rebuild kit just to be sure.
The yellow cap is a ported vacuum connection you will need to connect to the distributor vacuum advance.
That is a very good price too.
You will want to know if the remanufacture was done with ethanol fuel compatible parts. If unknown, I would buy a ethanol compatible rebuild kit just to be sure.
MoparDan
Well-Known Member
I worry when I see the word remanufactured, bought two remanufactured carbs one for my '82 and one for my '87 both had issues, ended up getting rid of the '82 partly because of that...the '87 I couldn't get it to run and had to have it re-rebuilt: nothing was right: the jets were not only wrong for the carb they were totally different from each other! The whole carb had to be machined...and still wasn't right
Mikes5thAve
Well-Known Member
Order one for a mid 70s dart from a parts store. It'll cost more then that one but if there's something wrong with it at least you can exchange it.
I've had maybe 50/50 luck with rebuilt carbs.
I've had maybe 50/50 luck with rebuilt carbs.
MoparDan
Well-Known Member
That's a great idea! That's what I'm doing when we can get the money in the bank...Yah I've had such bad luck with rebuilt carbs, will I need any type of adapters for the carb or will it bolt right in?
Depends on how cheap you want to be. Easiest is to get a non lean burn distributor and carb, 76 - 77, but a used MSD 6a and msd blaster 2 coil (used between 100 and 150). Car will idle better, get better gas mileage and eliminates the silly resistor Chrysler insisted upon.
If it was still easy to find them in a junkyard you could just steal the setup off a non lean burn Volare or Aspen.
Super cheapest is HEI Distributor + Spark Plug Wire Set For Dodge Chrysler 318 340 360 V8 (164+475 | eBay
HEI Distributor + Spark Plug Wire Set For Dodge Chrysler 318 340 360 V8
and get a 77 - 77 non lean burn carb.
If it was still easy to find them in a junkyard you could just steal the setup off a non lean burn Volare or Aspen.
Super cheapest is HEI Distributor + Spark Plug Wire Set For Dodge Chrysler 318 340 360 V8 (164+475 | eBay
HEI Distributor + Spark Plug Wire Set For Dodge Chrysler 318 340 360 V8
and get a 77 - 77 non lean burn carb.
Mikes5thAve
Well-Known Member
Hayzoos
Well-Known Member
You may want to look for a small cap version, the traditional large cap HEI may hit the firewall. The small cap versions use an external HEI coil traditionally an "E-core" like the coil in the large cap HEI but only 45-50KV instead of the approx. 65KV the large cap coil outputs, or now you can get an HEI coil in the round oil filled type for the OEM look but at "only" 40KV which is still an improvement over stock.
