Justwondering
Well-Known Member
lightning II
There is more to the story than you provided.
The grid itself has been made unstable by state and federal subsidies. Having these subsidies distort the energy market. It also prevents the buildup of reliable power generation.
My friend at the Nuclear Power plant had it explained this way:
Electrical service is broken down into the following components:
generators (the ones making electricity),
wire companies (the ones that own the transmission lines)
substations and distribution infrastructure,
energy providers (they sell the electricity to consumer and who you get your monthly bill from)
and lastly ERCOT (they own and operate the statewide electric grid in Texas)
Recent government initiatives in the past few years have called for the promotion of "green" energy. This means that people want more renewable source choices such as solar or wind generators, while urging for the shutdown of our tradition nuclear, coal and natural gas plants.
Every year were seeing more the latter type of generators being forced to shutdown their production/plants.
What does that mean during extreme weather events? During cold temperatures like the ones recently experienced people draw more load onto the system from electric heaters, ovens, stoves, etc. being run overtime. This additional load required extra generation (electricity being produced) to supply the power needs. The green energy we're promoting doesn't work during this type of weather.
Windmills are currently frozen in place or there is not enough wind to move them after the front comes through and stalls out.
Solar plants aren't producing enough with the lack of sunlight and weeks of cloudy weather when the front stalls out.
Our traditional plants (coal, nuclear, natural gas) we used to rely on have been shutdown due to the environmental efforts. They can't give us the supply that was once covered by them.
The population has increased dramatically in the past 20 years. However, federal restrictions prevent traditional plants from being built in a cost effective manner because of the excessive subsidies going to the green solutions.
So what now? The grid operator (ERCOT can't let the demand (load) get higher than the supply (generation) since it could lead to a statewide outage. That's why they have now issued the forced outages to areas with high loads to try to keep the grid stable. Now the utilities (owners of the transmission lines, substations, and distribution lines) are being forced to cut power. This will keep occurring until load needs can match what the generators can supply
.....
To me it is a great representation of what we face at the federal level and best exemplified by California, Illinois (chicago) and New York fiscal policies. Everybody wants money, pet projects, special consideration. No one wants to do the work and put in the effort to earn the money, get the degree or specialty skills. When they run out of money, they expect magic fairy dust will make it happen. Unlike the feds, the energy companies can't just 'print more money' that is -- they can't just make more electricity. You have to plan in advance.
Winterized versions of green energy solutions may have mitigated part of the problem, but it would not have prevented the whole fiasco. Investing in traditional power generation and keeping it at levels that can support the increase in population is paramount. The 'green solution' is inferior in efficiency, suffers from 'not in my back yard', and can only be placed in limited locations.
While I'm on this explanation, there is the entire dynamic of rural electrification that is completely ignored in most discussions. Again, the haves vs the have nots. It takes far more power lines to support one rural customer than a walk-up 3 story apartment complex in a dense city.... mutliple house in the sub-division of the urban areas. All that line, all the annual tree maintenance, all the individual smaller transformers, costs money to support. But you can't gouge the smaller rural folks or they would never be able to afford lights. When the city folks start paying their share of our needs in the rural areas, you will see some changes. Until then, its just he said/she said on the problems.
JW
There is more to the story than you provided.
The grid itself has been made unstable by state and federal subsidies. Having these subsidies distort the energy market. It also prevents the buildup of reliable power generation.
My friend at the Nuclear Power plant had it explained this way:
Electrical service is broken down into the following components:
generators (the ones making electricity),
wire companies (the ones that own the transmission lines)
substations and distribution infrastructure,
energy providers (they sell the electricity to consumer and who you get your monthly bill from)
and lastly ERCOT (they own and operate the statewide electric grid in Texas)
Recent government initiatives in the past few years have called for the promotion of "green" energy. This means that people want more renewable source choices such as solar or wind generators, while urging for the shutdown of our tradition nuclear, coal and natural gas plants.
Every year were seeing more the latter type of generators being forced to shutdown their production/plants.
What does that mean during extreme weather events? During cold temperatures like the ones recently experienced people draw more load onto the system from electric heaters, ovens, stoves, etc. being run overtime. This additional load required extra generation (electricity being produced) to supply the power needs. The green energy we're promoting doesn't work during this type of weather.
Windmills are currently frozen in place or there is not enough wind to move them after the front comes through and stalls out.
Solar plants aren't producing enough with the lack of sunlight and weeks of cloudy weather when the front stalls out.
Our traditional plants (coal, nuclear, natural gas) we used to rely on have been shutdown due to the environmental efforts. They can't give us the supply that was once covered by them.
The population has increased dramatically in the past 20 years. However, federal restrictions prevent traditional plants from being built in a cost effective manner because of the excessive subsidies going to the green solutions.
So what now? The grid operator (ERCOT can't let the demand (load) get higher than the supply (generation) since it could lead to a statewide outage. That's why they have now issued the forced outages to areas with high loads to try to keep the grid stable. Now the utilities (owners of the transmission lines, substations, and distribution lines) are being forced to cut power. This will keep occurring until load needs can match what the generators can supply
.....
To me it is a great representation of what we face at the federal level and best exemplified by California, Illinois (chicago) and New York fiscal policies. Everybody wants money, pet projects, special consideration. No one wants to do the work and put in the effort to earn the money, get the degree or specialty skills. When they run out of money, they expect magic fairy dust will make it happen. Unlike the feds, the energy companies can't just 'print more money' that is -- they can't just make more electricity. You have to plan in advance.
Winterized versions of green energy solutions may have mitigated part of the problem, but it would not have prevented the whole fiasco. Investing in traditional power generation and keeping it at levels that can support the increase in population is paramount. The 'green solution' is inferior in efficiency, suffers from 'not in my back yard', and can only be placed in limited locations.
While I'm on this explanation, there is the entire dynamic of rural electrification that is completely ignored in most discussions. Again, the haves vs the have nots. It takes far more power lines to support one rural customer than a walk-up 3 story apartment complex in a dense city.... mutliple house in the sub-division of the urban areas. All that line, all the annual tree maintenance, all the individual smaller transformers, costs money to support. But you can't gouge the smaller rural folks or they would never be able to afford lights. When the city folks start paying their share of our needs in the rural areas, you will see some changes. Until then, its just he said/she said on the problems.
JW
After that though, back to the 30's and 40's. Guess one crappy cold day isn't the worst thing that could happen. Even low 20's is 30-40 degrees warmer than it was a little over a week ago.
