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Bruceynz

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explain why, I can connect back up, its very easy and quick. So if you put a breather on the valve cover instead of a PCV this must be bad as well?
 

AJ/FormS

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explain why, I can connect back up, its very easy and quick. So if you put a breather on the valve cover instead of a PCV this must be bad as well?
By itself no it's not bad, so long as you service it at regular intervals. But When you floor it the blow-by gasses will be greater than your atmospheric dump can pass, so now they will pass out of the engine thru that breather. The gasses will be laden with oil,and/or oil vapors that the crank is furiously churning up. The breather will do the best it can to separate the oil, but it not likely to get it all, and so the general area around it will become increasingly messy.
The factory system overcomes this with the fresh-air tube. Somewhere in your air-supply between the air filter and the TB, should have been this hose.
And again, after shut-down,the cooling engine will be drawing in unfiltered atmospheric air.
 
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Bruceynz

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Well I am thinking to go for a catch can system now.

Capture.JPG
 
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Bruceynz

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Ok this is what PCV does to a direct injected engines intake valves, you think its pretty good eh?

With my mopar 360 I am connecting the PCV up for sure, it will have no issues!

16254d1403492417-ecoboost-sludge-build-up-intake-vavles-possible-fix-carbon.jpg
 
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slant6billy

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My daily is a 2013 accord.......... I hate honda and I bought it just to beat like it owes me money
 

BudW

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The PCV system – for most cars – is a positive item to use, in a lot of areas.

It can actually reduce engine oil leaks! (Sense the crankcase is under vacuum most of the time).

My fix for some cars – the engine from picture above included, is to keep using the PCV system – but to make sure there is some kind of baffle before the PCV valve (in valve cover or wherever that valve is located at) so it does not have a direct oil access (splash oil).

Next is to have some kind of a catch can for oil to “rest” at before hose goes into the intake.
Note: this catch can WILL HAVE TO BE CLEANED OUT, OFTEN. At least once a month, maybe longer – your mileage will vary. The picture above will work fine in this case.


The cars before PCV valves use a draft tube system. Those systems promote sludge inside of engine due to water moisture (see AJ’s notes, above). Also they stink to high heaven when car is driven.
Most draft tubes had hose exit close to underneath of car so airflow past tube would help suck some fumes/smell out.

If you are going on a cruise with a bunch of older cars – I recommend you do not follow one that uses a draft tube – unless you like stinky fumes.
I suspect the PCV system was invented due to customer’s complaints about the stink, more than anything else – and the discovered benefits were huge from using it.
BudW
 

AJ/FormS

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Ok this is what PCV does to a direct injected engines intake valves, you think its pretty good eh?

With my mopar 360 I am connecting the PCV up for sure, it will have no issues!

View attachment 27231
Which valves are those?
You say that the PCV is to blame for that?

Well I don't know chit about Direct Injection, but I do know about PCV, and I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you would have a very hard time convincing me,to blame that coke on the PCV.
 

Bruceynz

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Direct injection has a high pressure pump and the fuel is pumped straight in the chamber like a diesel. With a carb car or conventional EFI car that dumps fuel into the intake manifold the fuel washes against the backs of the valves to keep them cool and clean, direct injection this doesn't happen, the PCV sprays a mist of oil into the intake which sits on the back of the valves and cokes up and those photos are what your lovely PCV system does. Worked find for old setups but is proving to be a problem for this modern stuff, BTW this is the way forward, California emissions laws and European laws have forced car manufactures to go to smaller turbo engines to meet the emissions standards. If you hang around long enuff on this planet you will see it all happen, Ford is just one step ahead of all car makes in the USA! In Europe they are saying Naturally Aspirated engines are dead now! All will be turbo, its the only way at this stage to meet the new emission standards.
 

Bruceynz

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In NZ we are seeing Hyundai compact SUVs with 1.6 turbos, Volkswagen are doing 1.4 turbos now, we are seeing quite a few ford models here using the ecoboost and even mustangs here can be had with a 2.3 ecoboost, Aussie falcons had the 2.0 ecoboost.
 

AJ/FormS

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I'd be more inclined to blame that on cylinder pressure finding it's way into the crankcase, and from there overloading the valve seals. I'd be experimenting with figuring out ways to reduce the blow-by, or to improve ventilation, or to increase the intake valve temperature. That looks like a lot of carbon in there as well, and if so, how did it get there? It's supposed to be direct injection. The only way for that to get there, is back past the intake valve with a late closing ICA and the piston pushing it back up in there. Well I suppose with a turbo, it could come around thru the overlap cycle, but that's a bit of a stretch.
I also think that part of the problem is that the little engine is working too hard.
You see what I mean about not wanting to be the guinea-pig?

But if you do hook up that vapor separator, and it does eliminate your issue, boy I sure hope you come back with more valve pics and an I-told-you-so. If the separator accumulates a lot of oil, I'd be asking why, and working on reducing it. You may have to relocate the plumbing or re-engineering the factory baffle system. If you are successful at that, then maybe the PCV can be returned to factory porting.
You're kindof a pioneer out there for those of us who might be contemplating to follow in your footsteps in the future. Not me,lol; I don't see a turbo-4 in my future. Probably not a turbo-anything.....
But Ima rooting for you.
 
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brotherGood

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Hyundai has the 1.6T in the Tucson..probably about what you're seeing in NZ.

Turbo and Direct Injection are the new way engines are being built. Hyundai/Kia are all GDI, with a few different turbo options. FCA is developing new engines to include both GDI and Turbo technology. Ford, GM..they've also been working with it. I know my new Sonata has less than half the sized engine of my Diplomat..and had more power than the Dip AHB had from the factory, and 3 times the mileage.

If there weren't the MPG and emissions standards in place, and people still cared about performance more than anything..youd still see massive NA engines.

While that picture may be a result of GDI, I'm not really worried about mine. A:it's a lease, B: it has a 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty..which tells me they're very confident it'll last a long time.
 

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A lot of newer cars do experience this problem. The good news is it only effects a small majority of all new cars.

GM had a problem with their newer pickups about 10 years ago, from not including a baffle on one valve cover. Rocker arm oil splash was directed directly into the PCV valve. A redesigned valve cover and replacement PCV valve and hose fixes those vehicles (and GM tried to make a secret recall/warrantee fix on them, so when a car came into shop, the valve coves got changed without owners knowledge – but it didn’t stay secret very long).

BMW has a problem with their plastic valve covers. The plastic internal baffle is melting (more like shriveling up) under hard usage – which again, allows splash oil a direct shot towards the PCV valve. Also, some turbocharged BMW’s has the turbocharger located about 1½” on top of the plastic valve cover – which also melts them (easily).
I’m not yet convinced that plastic is a good material for valve covers, yet.

Actually most BMW’s have oil consumption problems via the PCV system, due to its design.

Volkswagens and their turbo's also have their share of oil consumption problems via the PCV system, as well (also due to a poor design).

I can go on and on about the different cases and it matters not if direct injection, or not.
That said, direct injection are more acceptable to intake valve/port buildup sense there is nothing to wash them clean (if you want to use that term).

In most cases, the factory has a fix for the problem – but not in all cases.

On a different note, Mazda is working on a gasoline direct injection system that doesn’t use an ignition system!

All I saying is using a catch can is a simple fix – until the factory realizes there is a problem and finds a fix for it.
PCV systems are highly recommended to use – but in a few car lines, a catch can might be the way to go until the factory devises a better fix.
BudW
 

kkritsilas

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I have read, no experience with, GDI cars having carbon build up on the valves. Same articles have attributed that to improper oil use, and extended oil change intervals. Synthetic oil is supposed to greatly reduce the build up, as does more frequent oil changes.

I am still of the opinion, that in cars of our generation Fs, Js, and Ms, that a working PCV system is a pretty major benefit.
 

BudW

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I have read, no experience with, GDI cars having carbon build up on the valves. Same articles have attributed that to improper oil use, and extended oil change intervals. Synthetic oil is supposed to greatly reduce the build up, as does more frequent oil changes.

I am still of the opinion, that in cars of our generation Fs, Js, and Ms, that a working PCV system is a pretty major benefit.
I agree with both statements.
That said, I think the first point also has "other considerations" as well, like design flaws, melted parts, and other aspects which are outside of the end users control.


Something else not mentioned – which I “would think” is a contributing factor, is a smaller engine has to work harder to produce the same work.
Blowby is what is leaking past the rings when an engine works harder. Turbocharged engines can also contribute to blowby. Blowby in excess (of normal) over time could allow for oil consumption in the PCV system.

Somewhat unrelated: port fuel injected engines currently have similar problem with “buildup” on the throttle body.
A person has to clean the throttle body roughly about every 30k miles (48k km) from the same appearing buildup (on most – but not all port fuel injected cars). Otherwise car runs rough from airflow past the throttle valve.
Give the throttle body a good cleaning (carburetor cleaner, a few paper towels and about 15-30 minutes of elbow grease) and all is good again - for about another 30k miles. I think oil in the PCV system and a lack of fuel to clean the area, is why a throttle body cleaning is needed – or my speculation, anyway.
Cleaning the valves is a lot more involved (picture from post #46).
BudW
 
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