Remote oil filter - ideas?

Does anyone have a working remote engine (or transmission) oil filter system on their fine F, M or J automobile (new Hemi, small or big block)?

If so, can you provide pictures of your system?
Also, any notes as to what you would change - if you were to do it again?

I’m considering installing a dual filter system for my big block(s) as well as one for the 727, possibly – but not sure what would be accessible. The car(s) will be 95%+ street driven.
The bumper shocks appear to be the obstacle.

Also, I’m not married to a dual filter system.

The engine part I plan on using for the (big block) oil pump cover, will be (like) one of these two (depending on which one give me more external oil pickup hose room):


BudW

I tried to find some old pics of my car when it had a remote dual filter set up but no luck. I had the filter adapter mounted to the radiator support where the battery is now. Had a trunk mount at the time. Before that I had it mounted inside the fenderwell, above the bumper shock. Both spots worked but neither was optimal. Toughest part is running the oil lines, with a big block anyways. Now the filter is one the engine, and run a small diameter filter (equivelent of a Motorcraft FL-400S). Have to remove the fan, shroud and p.s belt to change it but what the heck, it's only once a year.

Got a couple pics, or tried to, of the oil pump. The top pump cover has an oil port that will run right into the k-frame. On the second one, the rear port will have problems with the motor mount bracket from what I can see. Possibly if the straight one was swapped for a 90 degree fitting(?) I know it's hard to see but here they are anyways.
The coil pic is just to show that with a big block, you have to use space that's available. Best location I could come up with to put the coil, up there with some remnants of the car's semi-pro street days. Does keep it away from the heat so that's one bonus

When I get closer, I’m building a jig. Measurements have been taken (but will have to again - I lost my measurement notes – sigh) after car was aligned, and tires at proper height. Measurements were taken of the front and rear K-frame holes to ground (not bolts – for sense mounts are currently rubber and going back solid, the K-frame bolts would not be a good measuring location). Also measurement of transmission mount pad (tailhousing) – to ground.

Mount my K-frame into jig and toss my (currently loose) 318 police engine/transmission on it with new mounts - to get the crankshaft center-line. Then toss the big block on there to see what I have to modify and what I have room for.

I’d like to put in a factory looking large oil pan – if I can find one. Nothing wrong with them, but I’ve never been fond of square-edged oil pans (or valve covers). Also, I’d like to install a swinging oil pickup – possibly.
I have a pair of used ‘402” 6-qt pans, already – but as far as oil goes, more is better

I’ve worked with trunk mounted batteries before – but not something I want to do on my station wagon. Sense it will be a daily driven car – I’m not sure I want to move the battery for the 5th Ave, either. That, as well as oil filter access makes me ponder a lot (in that area) and weighting all of the options.

’80 and newer F/M-bodies, the ignition coil fits in the passenger side rear corner of engine compartment – just below the washer tank – and sounds like a great place to keep it on the 5th Ave. The wagon, placing the coil in the same general location as your car – might not be a bad idea.
How is your coil wire run to the engine?
BudW

Well, it's obviously a long coil wire. I actually made it from a plug wire by crimping the correct terminals on and coil boot, along with extending the primary wiring. I ran the wire through a grommet where the side marker wiring used to go. (Ran that, and the coil primary harness, in a different location, under the coolant reservoir) The bracket the coil is bolted to is a hold over from the cars previous life (along with that square tubing along the fender flange) back in the early '90's yet. At one time, the charcoal canister was attached to it.

On the oil pump clearance. I'm running a Milodon high volume pump so it sticks out farther than stock. Had to clearance/reshape the area under the oil filter housing for room.

When I did the original big block swap in '89, there was no Schumacher mounts. Used stock BB spool engine brackets from a '73 or newer something or another. Cut the V-8 k-frame brackets off a K at the scrap yard, cut the S6 ones off mine and welded the V-8 ones on. I looked at a dozen V-8 K's that day and couldn't find a single one that wasn't rusted out around the upper control arm mounting tower. Gotta love Wisconsin, lol. Anyways, my engine might be lower or higher than a Schumacher swap (or it might be dead on too). Pretty sure it's where it should be though. The trans of course, is bolted to a stock mount on an unmodified crossmember and the fan is dead center in the shroud.

A Milodon stock replacement pan is pretty much exactly flush with the bottom of the k-frame, or just a hair lower.

Bud, I think I read on Farleys page a gm O/F relocation kit from a 4.3 astro van somebody used worked. 45* I think? Add however much hose you need to hang the filter on passenger side frame rail where you can get it w/out oil messing up your ride.
*Highjack ahead*
How many qt and who made your oil pan Aspen500? Is that a Miladon? I picked up a cheap chrome replacement pan, shallow. Probably 5qt. Should I go bigger? I was concerned deeper it would hang below k member. Its a street car.

Nice!
I like it.

It is good to put some items like that, out of the way.
Ignition modules are one of those items sense (I would think) it is good to away from the underhood heat.
The voltage regulator is an exception for it uses the underhood temperature to control alternator output voltage. Note: voltage regulators are installed in the exact spot they are needed at (was told by a factory engineer many moons ago).

I don’t plan any crazy RPM’s – so a normal pressure/normal capacity oil pump should work fine in my case. Personally, I think (no proof of such, though) that too much pressure is hard on the crank bearings. the more capacity pumps the extra oil right back into the suction pipe.
There is more to this story about oil pumps that I could talk about – but this isn’t the location for it.
I still want to make sure there is room for pump (and external lines) on existing K-frame, though.


Most likely, I plan on installing a K-frame skid plate – of some nature – but one might not be needed. These are examples of factory skid plates (which are being repop’ed) – but one was not ever factory installed on an FMJ vehicle.
I will want to make sure the larger sway bar will work (fit) with a skid plate, before welding one in.

Pics swiped from the internet

E-body K-Frame.

I don’t have any testing data on this - but I do know propeller shaft angles are important for both vibrations as well as for U-joint life. I would think that front crankshaft height would be important – but maybe not, that much.

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/identification-of-sb-vs-bb-k-member-for-73-74.79241/ talks about the small block vs/ big block differences in ’73-79 B-body K-frame. The same difference is also in the newer C-body sub-frame between small vs. big blocks.
A person can get a big block to physically fit in the slots – but engine will be about an inch taller and transmission mount holes will be a couple of inches off, sense one side (driver’s side?) is in a different location. The engine wants to fit into compartment sideways. There should be enough wiggle room in all 3 rubber mounts to make it fit, but the mounts will always be bound up.
I “think” I have an easy fix for it – but won’t know until I mock things up, first.
Cutting down the K-frame mount uprights “should” still be needed, I suspect.

I spy an oxygen sensor . . .
BudW

4speedjim said:

I read on Farleys page a gm O/F relocation kit from a 4.3 astro van somebody used worked.

Click to expand...

I picked up an external oil filter adaptor and hose setup from a Ford (Expedition?) but I don’t see a spot that it fits anywhere, in that area.

I’ll go find that post and read up on it. It might be better to have both filters on passenger side, anyway, maybe.

My goal is to get filter system installed (engine and transmission) before installing the big block – if possible (and yes, I know the filters are on different corners on small vs. big blocks).
BudW

Seems with steering, box, P/S (if applicable) and oil pump on the left, there has to be someplace on the right, right? I'm not there yet so I'm just guessing. Radiator support? No room. Can you weld a angle iron tab up a few inches on the front K with a couple holes drilled and tapped in it. Hang the bracket and filters off that? Bottom of firewall, passenger side? Here it is I think!> Make a bracket off the WP and alt and hang them on the front or back side of that! Beneath the alt. Should be room there Id think. That sounds plausible. Yes?

I drove my ’77 wagon today – so went ahead and took some pictures.

First of all, this car came from factory with a 318 and with no A/C. It has an 18” wide radiator. Obviously, the 26” radiator is wider – but is different in two different areas.
The first one is the radiator itself.
The second item is the two core support brackets the radiator bolts to are different (the first two pictures, marked by red and orange arrows). The current width of my 18” radiator and approximate width of 26” radiator is marked by white lines.






There is not much room in front of the radiator. Also, I’m hesitant to put anything there, except for coolers (transmission and engine oil) – mainly because I don’t want them seen through the grill.


Pictures behind L/F fender


Behind R/F fender




Looking at these pictures, I see two areas to mount filters (that is not underhood).
The first there is a (more or less) level section on inner fender which a person could bolt to (see blue and purple lines, above).
The second idea I have would be to take some sheet steel and bolt it behind the bumper shock, then angle it over it and towards the outside - Then attach filters to it.

After looking at things, now, I’m leaning towards the second option.

Note: I already have plans on replacing the core support bracket plates on the wagon before big block transplant - because it already overheats as is. Also, I plan on adding A/C to wagon, so a bigger radiator is already in the planning stage. The good news is most 318’s came with 26” radiators (standard with A/C and with towing packages) – so I was one of the unlucky ones.
I have a list of things to get from F Body Deconstructor Jim, and those plates are one of ‘em.
BudW

4SpeedJim, J-bodies do not have the huge bumper shocks on them, like F and M-bodies have – so you should have more room between fenders and inner fenders (if considering going that route).

Also, I’m planning on using a factory P/S cooler – which just adds to the congestion in the battery area.
BudW

A dual setup will fit inside the wheelwell, even with the bumper shock. It doesn't leave a tn of room but it isn't bad. That's where I had mine for a while (when I had a remote filter). The oil lines ran up, over and out through the fresh air intake hole next to the battery. Was it that asthetically pleasing to the eye, no it was not but, at the time, it did the job.

4speed Jim: Yes, that is a Milodon stock replacement pan. I sanded the plating off and primed/painted it. It's a heavy pan with guaranteed not warped rails. I originally had a generic aftermarket pan and it leaked like a sieve. Metal too thin and the a straight edge across the rails left an 1/8" gap in the center. Entire pan was "bowed". The Milodon, used with a neoprene gasket that has a plastic core, 100% leak free. Don't forget to get the matching pick up tube/screen. It's a stock replacement but the oil baffles will interfere with a stock pick up tube.

A note about radiators. I had a 3 core made from the largest f-body radiator there is (assume from like a 360 4 brl with A/C). The radiator shop supplied the side brackets and tank so not 100% sure plus, it was made 20+ years ago. Anyways, with that radiator, a Milodon high flow water pump, clutch fan withe shroud, and a high flow 192 degree t-stat, the 500" BB with A/C cools just fine. Only time the gauge has ever gotten to where it was going past half scale (and then only just a tiny bit) was on a 90 degree humid day, going up a very long and very steep grade at 35 mph on the way home from work, with the air cranked full on MAX. Otherwise, even in traffic on the same day the needle stayed below the center.

Clarification on the oil pump I run. It's high volume but standard pressure. I only went with a high volume just for peace of mind. By standard pressure I mean, the highest the gauge ever shows is 42 psi. Normally, when driving down the road it's 30-35 psi and hot idle in gear is 9-12 psi. I agree on the high pressure thing. On a dedicated race car, maybe but street car, no.

If I get a fan shroud – I'd bet my “current” overheating problems will go away.
Most, if not all 18” radiators didn't come with a shroud.
My car originally came with a 4-blade stiff fan blade. When I replaced the water pump on it (shortly after getting the car), I put on a (wider) 5-blade fan with thermo-clutch. The car sounds so much better now – but might not do anything about overheating.

It only overheats during summer driving and when stuck in traffic (low to no-speed) - so a fan shroud should fix that concern – but I’d rather just install a 26” incher to begin with.


Note: there is a big difference between “cheap” and high end oil pans. As well, I don’t care for the gold plating much. I even have a new Milodon (p/n 30760) 4-qt (?) big block car pan in my garage - which might even be the same on that Aspen500 has, maybe.
It is heavy, maybe twice as heavy as a factory pan is.
BudW

I'm curious what the volumes at RPM are on the std and high volume oil pumps. I bought that good $25 OP gasket with the pan, forgetting I needed 2. Is there an acceptable OP option that's doesn't come with a $300 entrance fee

BudW, you probably have the same pan as I do. I left it gold at first but after a couple years it started to get rus spots. Last time (and I hope it really wa the LAST time) I had the pan off, I sanded all the gold off and painted it Hemi orange. Looks much better under the car that way. I guess it would technically be a 4 qt pan, with a 5 qt total capacity w/filter and what "hangs" in the engine. Cheap pan = guaranteed leak no matter what gasket you use. I learned that lesson the hard way. Plus Milodon "Made in USA". The cheap one I had "Made in China".

4speedjim said:

I'm curious what the volumes at RPM are on the std and high volume oil pumps.

Click to expand...

A very good question - which I have no answers for.


I hadn’t tried one of the newer style big block oil pan gaskets yet – but my experience with the newer style rubber gaskets - should work outstanding.

Speaking of which – there are a couple of manufactures making these: https://www.holley.com/products/gaskets/oil_pan_gaskets/parts/61100G (this is just one example).


If a windage tray is available – I won’t put together an engine without one – even if building a 318 2-bbl for my grandmother.
It is free horsepower and also better fuel mileage (not much – but hey anything better is – better).

On same note: why use two pan gaskets where here, you can use, um, none (well, except for what is built onto the windage tray). My hat is off to whoever thought up this design.

I’m too lazy to make a windage tray for an engine that never came with one – but if there is one already made for an engine – then I highly recommend using it.
The exception is for stroker engines – they need a slightly different tray.


IMO, that gold finish on oil pans, just doesn’t appeal to me. I’ve painted over the gold and the look afterwards is just not the same.

After work tonight, I’m on a long road trip for thanksgiving with my side family (only time it works for all of nieces/nephews to attend) – so will be away most of this weekend. If I remember, I will take a few pictures of my oil pan collection – which might be helpful to 4SpeedJim, and others.


Going back to what 4SpeedJim said about oil volume:
My younger brother used to work for a major race car engine builder in Tulsa OK. They mainly worked on Chebys, but did a great job on whatever came into the shop (Sprint car, drag boat, you name it). They bored out a 340 block I had, 30+ years ago, and my brother pulled me aside to show me a tool the shop made to check oil pump capacity. In this case, it was a high winding sprint car cheby. They made a tool and welded onto e side of an oil pan.

The hole was just open, in this case. They knew what the oil pressure release valve position was when engine was off (0 PSI oil pressure) and what position it was in when full open (too much oil volume). They were working on roller lifters and roller rocker arms (before those became popular) and was having problems with oil flow at really high RPM’s. In this case, they knew exactly where the oil release valve was in relation to engine RPM and oil pressure and could map out what was needed - on a dyno.

I didn’t see any of the testing take place – but it does tell me that at least some people have looked at it.

My brother also told me that basically any engine that runs the stock RPM range and uses stock valve train – doesn’t need anything but a normal pressure/normal volume oil pump. If using a radical valve train and/or exceeding factory RPM range – then (as he put it) further testing is needed before recommending an oil pump.
BudW

Noite: my brother said: “any engine that runs the stock RPM range and uses stock valve train – doesn’t need anything but a normal pressure/normal volume oil pump. If using a radical valve train and/or exceeding factory RPM range – then (as he put it) further testing is needed before recommending an oil pump”, and I’m repeating what he told me.

I have no first-hand knowledge to say, one way or the other - other than it makes logical sense.
BudW

Back in the day, thirty years ago, when I put my first rb in my Volare I used the rocker panels and front frame rails for a datom line. If I remember correctly it's in there square and 4 degrees up in front and I had to clarence the k member for the oil filter.
I used a Milodon deep sump pan and had to extend the rebound snobers two inches because it's not good to smack the stip with your oil pan. I don't no what the debate on oil pumps is I have always used the HV Melling pump, I blueprint the pump and blend all the passages, both my 452 and the 500 run 75 psi. 10/30 synthetic and I have never had bearing issues.

My junk has been run to 7200 rpm, this last refresh thay both got much smaller cams and are done at 6500, 520hp from the 452 and 645 hp from the 500.
452 is pump gas 9.5 , 500 is e-85 12.5

My justification (to myself) for using a high volume pump was a combination of things. I have one of those "anti-leak" rear main bearings with the groove to channel oil to the front side of the bearing and the roller rockers which require push rods with oil holes. Is it really necessary for a street car the way I normally drive it? Probably not but I just wanted to be sure.

On the plated oil pans, you have to completely remove the gold or the paint will peel right off. Don't ask how I know this Can't tell it from a stock one when painted except it's actually better than stock, being made from heavier material.

Don't tell anyone but, I don't have a windage tray. Technically I do, it's sitting on the shelf. I never did check if it would clear the stroker crank or not.

The pan gasket I use is this one and absolutely no complaints.
Moroso Oil Pan Gaskets 93174

I had that blasted pan off half a dozen times in the past couple years, trying to cure the oil leak from the rear seal area (got it at long last this past spring!!!) and these pan gaskets have never let me down, even when reusing them. After the second use though, I got a new one for the next time. Hopefully, the pan can stay right where it is for a long time to come. So far, most oil there ever is, is after an extended freeway run or "spirited" acceleration and then it's only a tiny drop hanging on the bell housing. I can live with that. The true leak was past the seal retainer, not the seal itself.

My final trick.....Mancini billet seal retainer with the inside clearanced for better oil drain back and along with the square cut side seals, a bead of anaerobic sealer (aka strawberry jam) on the inside of the seals, a bead of gray rtv between the two side seals and finally, a bead of Permatex Gasket Maker #2 on the outside of the side seals. Covered every possible sealer, figuring one of them should work and,,,,,,,,,,,happiest I'd been in a long time when it stayed dry!!!!!