BB in an F or M body.

bremereric

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Sorry I am late to respond. Way too busy with other stuff. I finished getting the 400 in my Volare. It wasn't as bad as I thought and not as easy either. I have written up a little article on what you need and how to do it.

I have posted on a couple of boards. I kind of left this thread alone because there seemed to be some resistance to using factory parts vs buying a Schumacher kit.

So for the record :) I have a 76 400 bored .060 pistons sitting a mile down the hole. A set of mildly bowl worked 452 heads. a summit racing 6401 cam with a TM6 intake. The intake will be changed to a Holley SD in the near future and I picked up a set of Edelbrock heads with Crane gold roller rockers about a month ago. So those will go on when I get ambitious.

The tranny is a rebuilt 727 using stock clutches and heavy duty bands. It has a Cheetah reverse manual valve body and a 3500 stall converter. 8 3/4 out back with clutch posi and 3.91 gears.

Had it to the track twice first time I was running a new set of MT et streets and I could not keep the car straight once I broke about 90 mph. So that night was lost. Next time we went out my fan clutch died and the car started over heating and had a massive backfire with a little carb fire. That was fun!

Planning on hitting the track this coming Friday. Trying some different tires and I am very excited!

Dan...
Dan I didn't feel any resistance..others offered up their ideas and I even posted the DC k-frame post...take some pictures and show us how you did it...Eric
 

Remow2112

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Here is my write up on it and I am always happy to answer questions.


Here is the deal. I did this for a mostly drag race car.
1. I have manual steering (Don't know if PS will clear.)
2. Used factory late model BB spool motor mounts.
3. The tranny mount (not the cross member) needs a little modifications.
4. Hedman Hedders 78030 work great in a Volare.
5. I put in a cheap 26" aluminum radiator with the upper and lower ports matching a BB.
6. Milodon 30931 oil pan
7. I am using manual brakes. You can stick with PB but you will need to find a different power booster that will clear the valve cover. An A-body one might work.

Details:
Using the stock motor mounts will put the engine about a 1/2 further forward then using the Schumacher conversion mounts and a little taller. What I did was got a set of beat BB motor mounts and drilled some 1/4" holes through the rubber on the engine side of each mount. (They sit just a little wide and you need some extra give. I also trimmed the extra rubber and metal off the front and back of the motor mounts making them flush to the spool insert front and back. If you don't do that when you get it in the K frame mounts it tweaks the engine so it sits crooked in the engine bay. You will need to buy a bunch of flat washer and cut slots out of the bottom. When you trim the spool ends it leaves a gap on the K-frame mount and you have to fill the gap before you tighten down or you will never get them tight. I did that with cheap washers.

The only mod I did on my K frame was on the passenger side at the front of the motor mount. There is a long thin v fin towards the front of the car. I took a grinder and cut it off because the engine block hits it.


The tranny mount has 2 slots. You need to cut them open on the end that goes to the front of the car. You will then be able to have enough adjustment to get it connected to the 727 tranny. If you weld you can extend the slots.

I used the headers listed above. There are 2 styles of BB headers (that I have seen) this version will not work, Hooker Headers 5209HKR. It has the 5 tube cross over and the 7 sticks out. The 7 will not clearing the steering.

You cannot use a small starter or modern starter. It will hit the header tube. They sell expensive indexable style starters that will work. I just bought a old style 440 starter (It has a longer motor and a little more torque) For those that will ask. I did try banging some clearance in a headers tube to fit the small style starter. I got the tube to half the original diameter and gave up. Not worth it to loose that much flow in 1 tube. I have not had an issue with heat saturation yet.

For a drive shaft I went and found one out of a 70 station wagon and had it shortened. I would not recommend using the small diameter drive shaft. I have a mild 400 and it feels radically different launch then my 375hp 360.

I also chose to cut part of the fender well out on the passenger side to make it easier to get to the #6 spark plug. All the rest are easy. If you don't want to go that route you can drill a 1.5" hole in front of the #6 and get to it that way. The plug wire will still be a pain.

Oil pans: I started with a 699 (this is a number stamped in to the bottom of the pan ... Follow this link for an oil pan breakdown: http://www.440source.com/oilpans.htm) But the one I had did not have any baffles. After talking to a friend that has been racing BB Mopar for 20 years I switched to the Milodon listed above. He said that with a good launch and no baffles ( i am not exactly clear on what he considers a good launch :) His cars runs in the mid 10's.) you will starve the bottom bearings. He then warned me that it could still be done with a baffled stock oil pan so I chickened out and ponied up some cash. Back to oil pan options.

Mopar pans 699, 971, and 187 should fit fine. 971 is best just due to the extra room from the front of the pan to where the sump starts and you can still buy one from Mopar 5007807.
These are all 5 quart pans and if you are just street driving. I would just find a used stock pan and go for it. Most generic aftermarket oil pans are elongated 187 pans. Using a 187 or 699 might require a little trimming on the lip on the back of the k frame where the sump sits.

Do not try to put the engine and tranny in together. The engine hits the firewall and prevents the oil pans from clearing the k frame. I tried!

I also chained down the driver side of the engine since I beat up on the motor mounts quite a bit.

There is no reason that this could not be done with a 440 but the extra 1/2" a side is going to make the passenger side even tighter fit.

If you have your act together there is not reason that you couldn't put a BB in your F or a normal weekend. But they will be long days.

Dan...
 

red80roadrunner

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Remow: what mods did you do to fit the low block into the mounts? Im putting a raised 440 into a mirada shell with a 727 and 3:91 sure grip, im hoping to use stock manifolds as going to be street only car what did you use?
 

red80roadrunner

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what did you break at 90mph? and what driveshaft did you use? custom made? and are you stock brake booster or an a body one? is there good clearance to steering shaft etc?
 
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Remow2112

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For the motor mounts I got an older set and I drilled 1/4" holes on the inside part of the spool until it had enough give to settle (with a little prying) into the saddles. I also chopped the front and back extra rubber and tube from the spool and made up the gap with washers.

If it were me I would still use headers, it will be cheaper to build the exhaust then going with stock manifolds. I paid less then 150 for the headers I used. Check out my write up above. It has the details and part numbers.

I didn't break anything at 90. It just seemed that at that speed the car started veering hard right so I let off. I am pretty convinced the ET streets tires are the problem. I will know for sure this Friday.

For the drive shaft I went and found one out of a station wagon. It has a large diameter and I had it cut and balanced. A guy here in town does it $98.

HTH,

Dan...
 

crayzcuda

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Cool build!! Two different concepts coming up with same solution. BB in a F body. I was wondering if your using a cable shifter or did you shorten the shifter linkage? Are you using a stock tank and 5/16" line? I had to put my engine and tranny in as one being that there was no access to tranny bolts once installed. Any pics would be cool!!
 

Remow2112

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I actually used the stock shifter and linkage. It hooks up with no problems well with in the adjustment range. I am using the stock gas tank but I use a Holley blue pump and the fuel line is upgraded to 3/8 from the gas tank forward. I will probably go to a fuel cell in the future.

I have put my small blocks in with the tranny and engine together but I could find no way for that to work with the big block. There is just not enough room to the fire wall to get the oil pan to clear.

Now that I think about it. If you used a stock oil pan it might just drop in. I am using a Milodon 8 quart.

Dan...
 

red80roadrunner

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what manual steering box and columns are you 2 using when mounting the big blocks? also I see manual brake masters, were the boosters too big? what master and what mods did you do to the car to make them fit and work? Ohh sorry guys I whimped out on factory stuff and ordered the shumacher kit as well as energy suspension poly kits for k member mounts and tranny mount, I have limited shop time to use the hoist so went easy route to save r&d and getting frustrated time to a minimum.Would appreciate input on steering box and column and also manual brake conversion info.
 

Remow2112

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My gear box came out of a 76 dart and I had to buy a new pitman arm the a body won't work. For the master cylinder I got one for a f-body with manual brakes. The crappy part is you need to find an f-body with manual brakes to get the brake plate and push rod from.

Someone on here may have one. You can use power brakes but you need to find a smaller power booster. I know at least one guy that uses a Dart power booster.

HTH,
Dan...
 

Eastyorker

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Do any of these tips apply to a '78 M body? Trying to convince the Captain to go big!
 

airlifter141

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guys I did this back in 79 and went thru all your headaches but finnally got it done ,even with stock rams horn manifolds the power to weight ratio was awesome,,BUT TIE THE FRAME then realign your front end,, the weight transfer will pull the spring mounts if you get big bite so watch yourself there.. put a pusher fan setup in front for clearance . then hang on ... Don
 

joeblo

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I had a 400 Volare, no problem with power steering.
 

Remow2112

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Plenty ot room.

There is no issues running power steering with the BB.

Dan...
 

jasperjacko

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Just saw this thread, so I thought I would throw in my 2 cents. I put a 440 in a mirada in 1990. I used stock tranny mount and location, but I actually cut the drivers side motor mount in 1/2 , moved the spool end forward, welded back together with gussets. I also notched the k-member. I also used heddman headers 1 7/8 3.5 collectors, but I don't remember the p/n. I kept the p.s. a/c and p.b. , but had to remove the little drip thingy for the a/c on the firewall. For the brakes, I used a k car booster, I think I had to put a bushing in where the pin goes through because it was a different size. Radiator came from a c-body, three row that barely squeezed in. I had the lower rad. hose nipple replaced with a 45 degree elbow to clear the torsion bars because the rad was taller than stock. Speaking of the torsion bars..... One snapped about 6 months after the swap.... fortunetly it broke in the night while we were sleeping! I figure the extra wieght did it...all cast iron, no aftermarket aluminum. Many good times in that car, total sleeper . My wife sometimes drove it to work and said her favorite thing about the car was that she never had trouble merging with highway traffic !! I " almost went the same route on Modoba, but decided against it......I have teenage boys you see...lol
 
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jasperjacko

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Actually had big plans for that car. I built the engine with stock compression because I was going to turbocharge it. I built my own manifold for the turbo, had a rotomaster turbo made for the application. I bought a b&m superjection efi with a mass air flow set up and bigger injectors for the 440. Expert power estimates were 550-600 hp/ 6-700 ft lbs , all less than 5000 rpm and 7 lbs of boost. But..... Babies and life came along and the car plans faded. You know how it is. So everything gradually got sold to pay for this or that. But I am a very blessed man with my family, and wouldn't trade it for any car or anything!:love7:
 
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jasperjacko

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440 mirada pics

Found a few low quality old pics of my 440 mirada circa 1990.

100_4225.jpg


100_4226.jpg
 

jasperjacko

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Just remembered a few other things. I installed solid k-frame bushings and removed the rubber donut on the steering shaft to clear the header. I think I also ground a couple teeth on the steering shaft to mount the wheel straight because bolting the the column directly without the rubber biscuit caused the wheel to be out ( not straight) There may be headers available now that don't need so much fiddling.
 
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