Electric radiator fans?

Oldiron440

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I'm sure All the new car manufacturers have got it wrong and you're correct.
 

Poly

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It's a driving project. I have a controller already on my shelf (from a project that is no more) and either way I'll need at least a 100A alternator to be able to install my amp and sub.
I have a 4bbl airgap intake, 1406 carb, new ignition all on my shelf as well as new poly motor and tranny mounts. Just collecting parts and will be installing them when weather is nicer.

I'll suggest doing some compiling on what the total electrical needs will be. And then you might want to go higher with the alternator output to give yourself a safety margin.

Just as an example, say you've got the electric fans, they use maybe 30 amps. But to start them might be 40 amps.
The regular amp and subwoofer amp about 60 amps.
Add other stuff like headlamps, taillamps, heater blower and/or air conditioning. And the ignition system.

With only the music and cooling fans the system is pulling 90-100 amps. And I guess the driving conditions count too. Slow moving, lots of idle ? Lots of stuff to consider.
 

Duke5A

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If you do decide to go electric fans, just do so knowing the factory cooling system will support roughly 400 horse power. It cooled my aluminum headed 360 just fine for years. The mods you listed will get you around 200 HP with a decent exhaust. I only switched when the radiator needed to be replaced when it plugged up. I was chasing that 10 HP figure and wanted to support bigger horse power numbers later on. The added room in the front of the motor was nice too.

If you stay with the clutch fan, you still definately need to upgrade the alternator. Mancini sells a Denso alternator kit that is rated for 60 amps and comes with all the associated brackets. Don't be fooled by the low output as the low speed charge performance smacks the crap out of a factory charge system. I ran this setup for years in my Fifth Avenue and this included having a 600 watt amp in the trunk with two 12" subs. Never skipped a beat. Ever notice the lights with your foot on the brake pedal, the blower motor running, head lights on and turn signal flashing? The low beams blink with the flasher. Not with the Denso. I highly recommend it. Only reason I replaced it is because I was going electric fans and I planned on fuel injecting the car. I might even still have it laying around somewhere.
 

Rustyroger

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I'm sure All the new car manufacturers have got it wrong and you're correct.

Why do most modern cars now have electric cooling fans?.
Most cars today are fwd with the engine sitting across the engine bay, arranging a mechanical fan drive would probably cost at least the same as making an electric fan system, although Peugeot 305 models had a belt running from the crank pulley that turned 90 degrees to work a fan back in the 1980's.
Also there is far less room in an engine bay today, electrical components take up far less space than most mechanical systems.
So the bean counters at the manufacturers plants sanction the most cost effective way to build a car.
It's fair to say if you mostly drive on the highways you almost never need the fan, so the inefficiently produced electric power is vary rarely called for.

Of course if you a running an old fashioned American car then it must be for fun, it makes far more sense from a strictly practical viewpoint to run a modern car which is superior in every driving dynamic, but I've never met a classic car owner who would rather drive a Honda or Hyundai. :eek:
Also if you want to show your car then the more it departs from original the less highly will it be regarded.
This is all irrelevant for you guys who have turned your Mopars into black top wrinkling, tire shredding strip monsters, the first thing a powerful engine needs is a cooling system that can deal with it, certainly the system on my 2bbl 140 bhp 318 Fifth Avenue won't handle something making enough power command respect at a drag strip. :D

Roger.
 

Oldiron440

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The picture Aspen500 put up of the radiator from his 08 mustang shows it's not just fwd vehicles getting electric fans. The electric fan is a popular modification for the car hobby and I don't understand why it makes any difference to anyone if someone wants to put one on there car.

I personally have never used one but I do have a project that would be a good candidate for the modification and I'm open to it.

I did have a 80s somthing V6 Mustang and it had a clutch fan so Ford did switch to the electric fan.
 

Rustyroger

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I'm not anti electric fans, I had a 1978 rwd Fiat that left the factory with one, and I know many rwd cars also use them.
However many people see fitting an electric fan as a cure for another underlying fault, often a plugged radiator or one too small to cope with an uprated engine.
If you like the idea of an electric fan, then fine, it's your car do do what you want with. But it won't be better in any significant way than the original fan.

Roger.
 

Oldiron440

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The thing I don't like about some of the aftermarket fans is they block off far to much radiator so the fan is the only source of airflow, the OEM fans don't do this for the most part.
 

Aspen500

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Aside from Diesel pickups, I can't say there's any cars or gas pickups that have a mechanical fan anymore, RWD or otherwise. I'm talking anything made in the last 5 years or so.
One reason could be they can run less belt tension, which takes less power to run, and less stress on component bearings. Also, electric fans typically take up less space AND they can be commanded on or off whenever needed. It can also help warm up times to an extent. Even when a clutch fan is "disengaged" it's still blowing cold air over the engine. Even though the t-stat is closed and the radiator isn't doing anything yet, it'll still cool the engine somewhat. They want the engine to reach operating temperature as quickly as possible for emissions reason. In fact, if it takes longer than it should for the inputs (intake and ambient air temp, load, etc) it'll set a code and turn on the check engine light. Amazing how many check engine lights are fixed with a new thermostat.
 

Poly

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...so if you want to show your car then the more it departs from original the less highly will it be regarded.Roger.

A small part of your reply but... I hear that ! Those S-10 bucket seats might be the thing in 2019 for your FMJ but I can hear the cursing 20 years from now...for an otherwise viable restoration ends in deep discounts on sale day or just past right on by.
 

Rustyroger

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Aside from Diesel pickups, I can't say there's any cars or gas pickups that have a mechanical fan anymore, RWD or otherwise. I'm talking anything made in the last 5 years or so.
One reason could be they can run less belt tension, which takes less power to run, and less stress on component bearings. Also, electric fans typically take up less space AND they can be commanded on or off whenever needed. It can also help warm up times to an extent. Even when a clutch fan is "disengaged" it's still blowing cold air over the engine. Even though the t-stat is closed and the radiator isn't doing anything yet, it'll still cool the engine somewhat. They want the engine to reach operating temperature as quickly as possible for emissions reason. In fact, if it takes longer than it should for the inputs (intake and ambient air temp, load, etc) it'll set a code and turn on the check engine light. Amazing how many check engine lights are fixed with a new thermostat.

I think you are right on the money.
I first noticed this when Japanese cars came to the shop I worked in with engines running poorly. Quickly cured by fitting a new oem thermostat. This was in the UK in the 1980's, we didn't have emission controls then, but Japanese cars probably had the same carburetors as the ones sold in North America.
Old American cars aren't so sensitive, and generally have plenty of room in the engine bay.
Modern cars were designed to have electric fans from the start, for all the reasons you have given.

Roger.
 

Rustyroger

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The thing I don't like about some of the aftermarket fans is they block off far to much radiator so the fan is the only source of airflow, the OEM fans don't do this for the most part.

Absolutely. Someone from another forum made the point that he needed to run his aftermarket fan most of the time even on the highway because it was blocking airflow.

Roger.
 

AJ/FormS

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I'm sure All the new car manufacturers have got it wrong and you're correct.
The vast majority of new cars are not built with with longitudinal V8s. nor with hi-torque engines, nor with 3800pound plus chassis.
Furthermore, we don't usually run our cooling systems at 220/230 plus degrees so we can post 36 mpg stickers in the in the sales brochures.
And why anyone would spend money on a complicated,usually expensive conversion,electric fan system; that is known to be failure prone ,or with possible catastrophic engine failure if the fan system fails,...... when a much simpler more reliable system exists ...... is beyond me.



I get electrics are all the rage with new car transverse engine designs. But the same DA engineers that put them in pick-ups, do so not with your best interest in mind. New vehicles have a built in count-down-to-destruction-timer that starts as soon as it leaves the showroom, making them disposable. They are built cheap for a reason. Profit drives the business. Not best ideas, not best quality, nor even what's best for you. It's all about bottom-line, and meeting government regulations. How cheaply can it be made and still survive the warranty period, without evoking the lemon-laws.
Obviously this thinking was not always at the forefront, else we wouldn't have our 40/50 and even 60 year old ClassicCars.

I don't care if someone freewill chooses to run electric fans. I tell what worked for me, and what didn't. The rest is up to the individual. If I see your ClassicCar parked on the shoulder,with a big ol' puddle under it, and see you have electric fans, I freewill choose to drive on by; you made your bed.


Cars have had mechanical fans since day-one, for a reason; they are trouble free and just flat work.
 
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Duke5A

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I could see your point AJ if we were only discussing aftermarket fans (those suck). OEM electrics in my experience have about the same failure rate as fan clutches. The only thing that would ever dissuade me from convincing someone to go electric would be the cost of doing so vs benefit gained; which would vary by build of course.
 

Duke5A

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@84Furyus

What kind of controller did you already have? Do you have A/C? Make sure it has provisions to turn on when A/C clutch is energized.
 

SixBanger

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I agree that the quality of new systems is not always good or remains good.

But, is it not possible to make a solid system? Apart from quality aftermarket fans.

I do believe that switching off the fan causes some wear of the relays and possibly the electric motor. But what if you created the relays from solid state relays. And instead of the controller turning the fan off, it switches with a lower voltage. So that the fan works partly, but the electric motor is used continuously.
In addition, it is also possible to measure the water temperature. And to link this back as a warning if the fan fails.

But another option. Is it not possible to control the temperature on the basis of a voltage regulator of the fan? Speed fan depending on the cooling water temperature. This way the fan turns continue without switching off and on. Plus a back up relay, should the controller be broken that the fan is running completely.
 

slant6billy

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I run an electric fan in my 79 and ran a similar one in my 95 Ram van. Temperature probe, thermostatic relay and power fan relay. I also ran a toggle switch to turn the fan on at will. I could see more of an obvious difference with van. The 3.9 V6 was a stump puller. Adding the fan and a free flowing exhaust (still manifolds) and a cold air intake allowed the fat 275 /60s T/A radials a little spin out of first gear. The parasitic losses were more obvious on takeoffs. Similar, my 79 made more low end power. Not as noticeable as the van, but more so 60foot mark.
 

Rustyroger

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I get electrics are all the rage with new car transverse engine designs. But the same DA engineers that put them in pick-ups, do so not with your best interest in mind. New vehicles have a built in count-down-to-destruction-timer that starts as soon as it leaves the showroom, making them disposable. They are built cheap for a reason. Profit drives the business. Not best ideas, not best quality, nor even what's best for you. It's all about bottom-line, and meeting government regulations. How cheaply can it be made and still survive the warranty period, without evoking the lemon-laws.
Obviously this thinking was not always at the forefront, else we wouldn't have our 40/50 and even 60 year old ClassicCars.

Cars were always a consumer durable after the days of the Model T Ford.
Built to last long enough for the buyer to be happy with it, but needing to be replaced when it was worn out.
Then the industry speeded up the process by making annual styling changes, hitting the marketing bullseye as the buying public wanted to be seen driving the latest model. Cars were built to be good for maybe 100k miles over ten years or so then they were done.
Obviously some survived far beyond there expected lifespan, they end up in the hands of collectors and old car hobbyists like us. And many had premature deaths from accidents, abuse and neglect.
When they were built some parts, like a radiator fan for example, were just as cheap to make as robust almost indefinite lifespan articles as it was to build them with just a few years life in them.
It's fair to say modern engines are normally good for 200k miles and more, but more because the engines always run at optimum efficiency as a byproduct of emission regulations.
Also rust is much less of an issue, most cars over here end up in junkyards because a major electronic component has failed. A bad transmission on a 10 year old car might easily cost more to fix than the car is worth too.

Roger.
 

Oldiron440

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The vast majority of new cars are not built with with longitudinal V8s. nor with hi-torque engines, nor with 3800pound plus chassis.
Furthermore, we don't usually run our cooling systems at 220/230 plus degrees so we can post 36 mpg stickers in the in the sales brochures.
And why anyone would spend money on a complicated,usually expensive conversion,electric fan system; that is known to be failure prone ,or with possible catastrophic engine failure if the fan system fails,...... when a much simpler more reliable system exists ...... is beyond me.



I get electrics are all the rage with new car transverse engine designs. But the same DA engineers that put them in pick-ups, do so not with your best interest in mind. New vehicles have a built in count-down-to-destruction-timer that starts as soon as it leaves the showroom, making them disposable. They are built cheap for a reason. Profit drives the business. Not best ideas, not best quality, nor even what's best for you. It's all about bottom-line, and meeting government regulations. How cheaply can it be made and still survive the warranty period, without evoking the lemon-laws.
Obviously this thinking was not always at the forefront, else we wouldn't have our 40/50 and even 60 year old ClassicCars.

I don't care if someone freewill chooses to run electric fans. I tell what worked for me, and what didn't. The rest is up to the individual. If I see your ClassicCar parked on the shoulder,with a big ol' puddle under it, and see you have electric fans, I freewill choose to drive on by; you made your bed.


Cars have had mechanical fans since day-one, for a reason; they are trouble free and just flat work.
I realize that change is hard for some people especially when we get older but the car makers today V8 engines that can handle 1000 horsepower, the LS, Coyote and the gen 3 can live at those numbers. Next year Chevrolet Ford and Dodge will have offerings over 750 horsepower show room ready. I'm not sure why you embrace the 70s and 80s so hard maybe that's all you know and ever will? But the time of no to low performance 318s has been replaced with 2 L 4 bangers that make 252 hp and 270 tq. You can go ahead and grump and grumble but your thirty years out of step.

As an edit the 300 and Challenger are closer to 4500 LBS than 3800
 
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