Electric radiator fans?

Opticon77

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Engines get hottest at idle after a hard run and need no help cooling while moving. Electric fans can run at speeds independent of engine RPM (even after shutdown on a timer for those of us worried about oil coking). That flexibility make it a no-brainer for anyone pushing/upgrading the factory cooling system. Run a shrouded dual fan setup in case one drops out it'll give you time to notice before temps get out of control. But keep in mind few of us are using these cars as a daily drivers in harsh environments anymore. Buy half decent components and you'll probably never replace them again.

That said, I think I've seen about 3 cars on this whole forum actually pushing the factory cooling setup. If you're not one of those three just flush/replace your radiator and make sure the thermal clutch on your mechanical fan is working. You'll be fine.
 

Oldiron440

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For years I ran my 440 Volare with a 360 radiator on the street with a crappy little flex fan a never had an issue with overheating. If I was to do something now it will be simple and run with a on off switch and a temp controlled switch. I'm not scared of an electric fan.
 

SixBanger

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Currently we live in a time where a car is more equal to a mobile phone. People can hardly do without mobile and internet. As is known, in the future it will be more towards use instead of possession. What in itself is not wrong. There could be smarter handling of things (autonomous driving/sharing cars). But I am glad that the eventual use of transport would not be unnecessarily complex or expensive.
At the moment, I do not know many peers here who like to tinker with old machines or vehicles. But yes, that's the time.
 

Poly

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One thing I'd like to see are wind tunnel results because many of the FMJs are similar to a brick in front clip design. Add in the 6x6 front bumper and the brackets behind the grill and there's a chance the airflow is directed away from the radiator to a point.
 

Oldiron440

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The modern automobile is complex and I'm sure that was said in 1919 also, but today's version has many things expected of it. It must be fuel efficient, low emission, crash worthy, dependable and affordable. The average age for the car on the road is eleven years so that means there are a lot of old junkers running around.
Maybe it's just time to ride a bicycle.:)
 

AJ/FormS

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I could see your point AJ if we were only discussing aftermarket fans (those suck). OEM electrics in my experience have about the same failure rate as fan clutches. The only thing that would ever dissuade me from convincing someone to go electric would be the cost of doing so vs benefit gained; which would vary by build of course.
Good argument
 

Rustyroger

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I realize that change is hard for some people especially when we get older but the car makers today V8 engines that can handle 1000 horsepower, the LS, Coyote and the gen 3 can live at those numbers. Next year Chevrolet Ford and Dodge will have offerings over 750 horsepower show room ready. I'm not sure why you embrace the 70s and 80s so hard maybe that's all you know and ever will? But the time of no to low performance 318s has been replaced with 2 L 4 bangers that make 252 hp and 270 tq. You can go ahead and grump and grumble but your thirty years out of step.

We know and mostly don't care. My wife's 2.0 liter diesel Peugeot could no doubt run rings around my Fifth Avenue on half the fuel.
But which one would I rather drive for its own sake?

Roger.
 

Oldiron440

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When you say we are you talking for a group or what.
But with a Peugeot and an old Fifth Ave as choices for transportation being somewhat different from the mass's who cares what you drive.
 
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Thinking about going to electric fan setup on my 84 fury.
I measured and looks like the core on my rad is 26"x18" and wondering if anybody had found a junkyard efan setup that fits well.
I have heard that the old Ford Taurus electric fans work great
 

Rustyroger

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When you say we are you talking for a group or what.
But with a Peugeot and an old Fifth Ave as choices for transportation being somewhat different from the mass's who cares what you drive.

I'm talking about old car hobbyists in general, who drive their old cars for the pleasure of driving them.
I'm in the UK btw, Peugeot's are just another car over here. perhaps one in fifteen cars on the road is a Peugeot.

Roger.
 

TylerW

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People get hung up on the idea that they have stumbled upon an untapped reservoir of free horsepower when they do these electric fan conversions. The FACT remains that clutch driven fans essentially consume negligible horsepower when disengaged, which is most of the time. Electric fans can draw a lot of amperage, especially at startup, and ESPECIALLY those Taurus fans everyone seems captivated by.

Another problem related to that is that the wiring jobs people do for these things range from adequate to downright dangerous. I bought a truck recently that had some OEM electric fan added in front as a pusher fan, and the wiring job consisted of a piece of extension cord and wire nuts. You can NOT use those generic parts store relays either. They are not rated for continuous duty. If you decide to proceed with this idea, then an excellent approach is to source a relay box from the fender of a late model Ford Crown Vic. One relay is 30 amp and one is 60, both rated for continuous duty.

In the end, I think it's too much work for too little result. It doesn't take long to get bored with 5 more hp. A gear change and some airflow work on the engine will be much more entertaining.

Also, why are we running to Mancini to buy a 60 amp alternator? I'm pretty sure the 88-91 version found in junkyards everywhere is 90 amps already.
 

Oldiron440

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I'm sure glad I don't care what other people think about what I build, if I did I wouldn't have picked an 76 Fbody.
 

Duke5A

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Also, why are we running to Mancini to buy a 60 amp alternator? I'm pretty sure the 88-91 version found in junkyards everywhere is 90 amps already.

Because it's completely brand new and you don't have to muck around with salvage parts. 60amp is plenty depending on what you're adding to the car. I only presented it as an option.
 

Justwondering

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This is really an interesting conversation for me.
Personally, I've never given any thought to fans in the engine compartment.

I think the alternator comment is worth learning more about as well.

As a major NOVICE and ignorant of a great deal of technology I'd like to ask a couple of questions...

1. Do these fifth avenues all suffer the 'brown outs' when you have all the electronics on (lights, signals, radio, etc) and then flip on the A/C?

2. Are you saying the electric fan conversion would make that worse which is why you would upgrade your alternator?

3. Enjoying the ride and comfort as well as the sound and sturdiness of my fifth avenue FAR MORE than the Subaru Forester my brother drives is in part due to the construction materials. But isn't is also a matter of knowing that more of the mechanical bits are 'repairable' rather than being 'must replaceable'?

just some things on my mind this evening.

JW
 

Aspen500

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Even brand new cars with computer controlled alternators get the little headlamp or heater fan brown out when another heavy load is first switched on at idle before it recovers.
Your're right about the replace rather than repair parts. Most are actually repairable and to do it can be had but,,,,,,,,,if you are paying someone like me to work on your car, it comes down to labor cost. It costs less to replace something rather than repair it in a large number of cases. If the part is $100 and there's $50 labor to install it, you're better off than $25 for a part to repair it with $200 labor (for example).

Side note off topic some more: A couple weeks ago I replaced the right side axle shaft oil seal in the power transfer unit (similar to a transfer case) on a Toyota Highlander which has a transverse engine. The seal was $12 from Toyota and,,,,,,,,,,,14 hours labor at $88/hr and I hope I NEVER have to do one of those ever again. Egad! Yeah I know, that story has nothing to do with anything here, sorry.:oops:
 

Poly

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I'm pretty sure the 88-91 version found in junkyards everywhere is 90 amps already.
partial quote from your post TW.

Are you referring to the Denso 90 amp ? If so then some brackets need changing or fabricated. So I've heard. And some models are scarey close to the valve cover where the charging cord attaches when doing a retrofit.
 

XfbodyX

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Here are a few things to consider. Im not saying anyone is wrong as we all do things differently.

As I read through all this a couple things pop out, one is not simply planning out a good cooling system and then putting it into motion.

Second is, stop being cheap bastages and pry open the wallet and pay for good parts you will use in your well thought out cooling system, do it one time and never look back.

Oem cooling systems like on our oem cars are great when all is in good serviceable condition. good rad, good pump, good belt alignment, proper shroud however looking back how many overheated cars did we used to see on long interstate trips. how many snakes in the road (the single v belt that got tossed or broke)?

I recall many, more then many.

How many of us with high rpm street cars never tossed a single v belt at the wrong time? How many of us used to thrash or tow and the good working oem cooling system would be semi taxed and we would have to let the rig rest?

On a night of spirited street cruising, did you ever tighten the belt as not to toss it only to eat a alt or water pump bearing?

If you never had trouble like this id say you were not having enough fun, or trying to.

Now to the al rad/ele fan deal.

This is not your high performance cooling option. This here is $236 of ebay heart ache. (let me post this pic and then edit and add on).

s-Junk.jpg


Ive read some think aftermarket fans are junk, well a good many are but as well ele fans have come along way since there introduction.

I will post a pic of one of my decent ele setups tomorrow, its 2:39 am.
But here you have a quality set of HD fans.

good spal.jpg


I use fans like in this pic but I also use a louvered shroud for fan off flow.

SPAL fans, used in oem and aftermarket for years from HD implements to high end exotic sports cars then to my mealy junk.

Think SPAL fans suck?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SPAL AUTOMOTIVE | OEM MANUFACTURERS

SPAL USA, the North American subsidiary of SPAL Automotive Srl, has been providing products
from Italy since 1989. The company’s sales and distribution center is housed in a 40,000-square-foot facility in Ankeny, Iowa. From this location, SPAL USA provides value-added systems,components
and support for OEM and aftermarket applications.

SPAL AUTOMOTIVE is a world leader in the design and manufacturer of high quality electric fans
and blowers for all types of vehicles and equipment. Founded in Italy in 1959, we initially specialized
in plastic mold design and production. We have been designing, producing and marketing for over
30 years high performance axial fans and centrifugal blowers for cars, buses, off-road vehicles, construction machineries, agricultural tractors, trucks, powersports and industrial equipment.

The SPAL production facility in Correggio, Italy, currently covers a total production area of 538,000+ square feet, accommodates over 500 employees and houses the engineering, research & development, and manufacturing departments. We have six automated production lines, which have the capability
to produce over 3 million fans and blowers annually.

We hold TS16949 and ISO 9001 certifications. They specify the quality system requirements for design, development, production and when relevant, installation and servicing. In addition, our Environmental Management System is certified to UNI EN ISO14001:2004, and also meets the European Directive 2000/53/EC on end-of-life vehicles (ELV).

Our goal is to build high quality products for the market. We achieve it by continuing focusing on research & development and by supervising all areas of manufacturing process for both Brush and Brushless Axial Fans and Centrifugal Blowers, 12V and 24V.

OUR PHILOSOPHY

"We have always set the highest standards. We are convinced that quality, innovation and service have been, are, and always will be the main cornerstones of our history and culture. Using these cornerstones,

SPAL has established its credibility over the years, presenting itself as an ideal partner for designing, manufacturing, marketing engine bay cooling and vehicle cab ventilation solutions for all means of transport. SPAL also manufactures a broad range of car accessories, aimed at optimizing vehicle comfort and, above all, upgrading safety."

-Alessandro Spaggiari // CEO, SPAL Automotive Srl

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No mention of the china man cooking up these fans. And I might add, although there are some puller fans that boast big cfm numbers spal fans are some of the highest flowing "restricted" fans.

I see a comment posted about relays, here again, pry open the wallet for the proper part.

SPAL 185FH: Fan Wiring Harness Kit 185-Degree Thermo-Switch | JEGS

I set my system up to live on one fan, but ive two. Quick cooling and by chance your one fan takes a dump, you never have to blink because you have a second on that can also do the whole job.

Simply wired through a t stat in the intake manifold coolant. Ive a couple small lights that come on when my fan/fans are and as soon as I reach a steady cruise I watch the light go out.

I also run a high end ele water pump, so in total im near $1400 in my one cooing system and that is also including the alt.

Like I seen in a pic here or close to it, a simple one wire gm alternator needs no special mounting brackets, ect.... its as simple as it gets.

I think poly mentioned our cars being bricks, one of the selling points of the F-s were the fact that the drag coefficient vs the a body cars they replaced was a great deal better for gas mileage.

I also think I seen posted things like wire being too close, this and that... really thats all so insignificant as an issue to address. They make so many now cheap for thermo protection it is a non issue to protect things from heat or even to relocate a connection point.

The setup I just outlined cools a big inch motor half filled/ deep gears and a pretty crazy converter but yet its a better cooling system then on anything else I have new or old.
 
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Oldiron440

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I was thinking about the rant earlyer about new cars built to fail blablabla clutch fans are the only way blablabla and came to realize that I have never changed an oem electric fan because of failure but I have replaced several fan clutches over the years.
 

Rustyroger

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Nobody who buys an electric fan setup will want to think they wasted their money.
No doubt a properly thought out and installed electric system will have marginal advantages over a stock system in good working order in extreme conditions.
To quote popular opinion on older Citroen cars; "It's a complex way to achieve not very much".

Roger.
 
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