1bbl Slant 6 surging at highway speeds

Idle Ender

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Finally got my Volare back on the road and driving on the highway has become a pain. It drives smooth up until about 65-ish and then surges and vibrates like crazy until I let off the gas and it smooths right out. I can watch my gas gauge go down as it happens which kind of points me towards a fuel issue. It has a fresh in-line fuel filter and appears to have good flow (although I need to check more thoroughly). It also has a new dizzy cap, rotor, wires, ignition box, and plugs. Prior to putting this Jeep diff on it and rebuilding the carb, I could easily cruise into the 90s with minimal vibration up front. I adjusted the float to spec and set the idle screw just right. Power valve, perhaps? I did not mess with the linkages on it when I rebuilt it, so it should be the same as when it was running well. My only other idea is that going from baby gears in my old 7 1/4 to 3.73s in my new Jeep 8 1/4 goobered up my highway driving. Its pretty bad to just be gearing, though. Any ideas?
 

4speedjim

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I agree with you, sounds like a fueling issue. Your turning more rpm with taller gears. Check the obvious things. Ive seen weak condenser at higher rpm, water in the fuel, a cracked fuel or vac line cause this sort of condition. It has a clean air filter right? How many miles on the timing chain? Your demanding more fuel & rpm, so thats where Id start looking.
 

Idle Ender

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Im currently replacing the original coil to rule out the ignition system. For $16 what could it hurt? Lol. Water in the tank is a worry of mine. Long story short, I rebuilt my carb because a crazy ex poured about a gallon of water into my gas tank about 2 years ago. I hand pumped the gas out and didnt have any issues after that. It could be a leaky fuel line.. I did spot a drip from one of the lines off the pump a while back but it had only happened once after sitting for quite some time. Do you think a leak like that would bleed off some of the fuel pressure? And yes, the air filter is clean.
 

4speedjim

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Yes I do think it is bleeding off pressure, and with more rpm, your gonna want all the fuel & pressure. to get to the float bowls. The pump diaphragm maybe compromised. But in my mind, once the leaks are fixed, I feel water could still be a likely cause.
 

Idle Ender

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Ill work my way through all of the possible issues. Good news is that every possible problem is a cheap and easy fix.
 

4speedjim

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You almost never hear "cheap" "Easy" and "Mopar" in the same sentence, so today is your lucky day! Buy some lottery tickets!! Im curious what ultimately you find. Please let us know what you find.
 

AJ/FormS

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>Drive it up to and into the vibration zone and immediately stick it into neutral, and let the engine idle down. If the vibration stays, it obviously is not the engine at all. But if it stopped the instant you put it into neutral, then it is in the engine for sure, or something to do with the engine.
>What is the rpm? Figure that out. Then free-rev it in your driveway to that rpm, or a little higher. If it's not there, this rules out ignition,mostly.And it rules out an engine balance problem. But if the issue remains,then;
By now, we have figured out that it is a loading problem. The vibration is related to how hard the engine is working. Or it is related to how far the throttle is opened.
Normally the engine is on the low speed circuit at 65 mph. This would be the transfers.You said below 65 it is smooth. That tells us the low speed is working just fine. And you did not say you had any problems with accelerating to 65. This tells us that the power circuit and mains are working fine. Since it didn't happen at any other speed or rpm, it kindof tells us that it probably is not rpm related, nor that the ignition cannot keep up.
Again this all points to loading.
So that means either the fuel system is crapping out, or the exhaust system is not letting the exhaust out.
Since you said it begins by surging, my first thought is a low fuel level or the engine has been leaning out all the way up to 65 and now it is just too lean to continue.
So, I suggest to go look for a fairly large vacuum leak, If you do not find it, then you will have to perform a fuelpump output test.This involves disconnecting the fuel line and redirecting the fuel from the pump into a large container, as the engine continues to idle. The test is timed and the delivery rate is calculated. And this is a really good time to inspect the contents of the container and make sure it is 100% gas, and reasonably fresh. Fresh gas is very nearly clear. as it ages it goes thru yellow to orange to red. Slightly yellow will be ok. red is not even good to start fires with, and orange MAY run in your lawnmower, but get it out of the tank.
The delivery rate should be 1quart in 1 minute or less, at 500 rpm.
If your pump can do that, then put it all back together.
Then you are gonna have to look at the exhaust. There are two ways of testing it. You can drill a small hole in the pipe anywhere that is convenient, between the manifold and the first restriction;be it cat resonator or muffler,and braze some brakeline into the hole. Leave at least a foot sticking out, then install a pressure gauge with a long enough hose that you can read it from inside the car. I route the hose up to the windshield area and clamp it there with the wiper blade. Then roadtrip! Run it up to the problem area and keep an eye on the gauge, If it any time the back-pressure exceeds 4 psi, there is your problem. You will have to figure out where the restriction is. That means getting under the car and looking for problems.If you don't see anything obvious, then you will have to move your pressure gauge to just aft of the first muffler, cat, or resonator and measure the back-pressure there. If it is still high, move to the next restriction. When the pressure finally falls to closer to zero bingo, you are right aft of the problem,cut it out! Then seal all the nipples you might have brazed in.
The second method is to just drop the headpipe and go for a ride. No more problems means something is in that exhaust system. If you use this method, try not to burn your car down; the exhaust coming out of the manifold can be 600 to 800 degrees F, depending on how hard that engine is working. It will set on fire anything it comes into contact with.Anything that burns that is, at under 600 to 800*F,lol.
I listed these in order of difficulty and probability of finding success.
>There is one wildcard that might be worth checking into first, and that is spark scatter. If the vacuum canister and the centrifugal advance system get to a place that is causing the spark inside the dizzy to spark to the wrong tower, well that could cause your symptoms too.The test for this is easy, just disconnect the vacuum line to the canister and plug the port on the carb.Then roadtest! No more problems means that this is a dizzy issue. Now you get to hunt it down. But no change means back to the top of the page.
And finally, there is always a chance that you have multiple problems. And there is also a chance that the engine just went into detonation.
And also that I am a complete and utter fool. I sincerely hope there is a solution in this post, cuz, I really hate saying sorry you did all these tests for nothing, cuz there was just something stuck in the air intake that was blocking the air from getting into the carb.Boy I would hate that...Or that the choke butterfly was slamming shut cuz somehow it got unhooked. I would hate to to put you thru all this work, and hear about a faulty choke.
 

BudW

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It sounds like a fuel (or lack thereof) problem.

Fuel filter.
Fuel sock (in fuel tank).
Fuel pump going out.
Float level set too low.
A leak in fuel line.
A kink in fuel line (restricted fuel line).
I think these are (in order) the most likely causes.

Note: on both of my 318’s, if I run them WOT to shift points, I can feel both of them run out of fuel, after those high fuel usage spells.
Time to change the fuel filters. I probably need to change the fuel tank socks as well – but those are not easy to do. I know the float level is correct on my ’86, but not sure on my ’77.

I changed fuel filter on the ’86 8 years ago and I suspect the fuel filter on the ’77 is (gasp) original.
BudW
 

Idle Ender

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Any news yet?

Or that somebody monkeyed with the rev-limiter.
Did you say 3.73s? Did you swap in the right speedo gear?

I put an older style aluminum speedo gear housing and green gear on it with a new pickup truck cable, so the speedo is dead on still.

It sounds like a fuel (or lack thereof) problem.

Fuel filter.
Fuel sock (in fuel tank).
Fuel pump going out.
Float level set too low.
A leak in fuel line.
A kink in fuel line (restricted fuel line).
I think these are (in order) the most likely causes.

Note: on both of my 318’s, if I run them WOT to shift points, I can feel both of them run out of fuel, after those high fuel usage spells.
Time to change the fuel filters. I probably need to change the fuel tank socks as well – but those are not easy to do. I know the float level is correct on my ’86, but not sure on my ’77.

I changed fuel filter on the ’86 8 years ago and I suspect the fuel filter on the ’77 is (gasp) original.
BudW

It has a pretty new in-line fuel filter on it (which isnt clogged). I also dropped the tank and drained it to check for water/rust/contamination. Not a spec of rust or gunk. Original pick up and tank, even! Slapped a new tank filter on it since I was in there.
20170221_173359.jpg


Carb float and mixture are pretty well zeroed in. Triple checked. Today I adjusted the valves to quiet down a little chattering on cold start and managed to smooth out my idle in the process. It also made my higher rpm a little more solid. Turns out adjusting the valves on the slant is a LOT easier and more effective with it running. Just hot and messy.
20170227_174508.jpg

Painted my valve cover and air cleaner while I was at it. Last can of Chrysler blue in town. In the back at Napa!
20170228_181151.jpg


Each one of those things brought my top speed up a few mph, but it still cuts at about 80ish. At this point I feel that Im at the limits of my 1bbl carb with these new gears. I wish I had a tach to know where Im at. Lol. Last thing to do is replace all the sketchy rubber lines to get rid of any possible fuel pressure loss.
 

BudW

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so the speedo is dead on still.
Cool Beans!

Not a spec of rust or gunk
I hadn't looked at mine, but doubt my tanks are that clean inside.

Question, where did you get your intake filter/sock from and for how much?

Turns out adjusting the valves on the slant is a LOT easier and more effective with it running. Just hot and messy.
I've done it both ways. There is no way, not to get oily doing it. The good news is it doesn't need to be done often.

Last can of Chrysler blue in town.
A clean engine compartment is like a clean and un-cluttered garage!

Note: it can't be done in all cases, but I like to shoot a bit of engine paint in the gasket area thereby making a better gasket seal (if that makes sense on what I'm saying). This works best when engine is out of the car.

Last thing to do is replace all the sketchy rubber lines to get rid of any possible fuel pressure loss.
The biggest thing I see is cracked fuel lines leaking air into fuel lines than leaking fuel out. Air is easier to "suck" than fuel is, so the carburetor is getting half air/half fuel.
Also, leaking fuel lines does NOTHING for fuel mileage and also makes for a hazard.
BudW
 

Idle Ender

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Heres the thing, the filter is one piece with the pickup. So youd have to buy an $80 fuel pickup to replace the filter. My filter fell apart when I took the pickup out, so I HAD to do something. Im super broke right now and this is my daily, so what I did was buy a $4 filter from the parts store and hack it up to slip over the end of the tube. Ugly and sketchy, but has held up with no issues whatsoever. Def my finest work. Lol

20170221_173345.jpg

20170221_201522.jpg
 

AJ/FormS

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80 is not the upper limit of the slanty. I don't know what it is, except I think the Volare with 2.76s is geared for 115 @4400,with 5% slip and 25.5" tires. My 69 Barracuda could do it.
Since the rpm is climbing as problems are being remedied, I suspect the issue is not yet mechanical,but all in the tune. Keep after it, you will eventually get it gone.
 
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BudW

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That looks kinda like this does OEM Mopar In-tank Fuel Pump Filter Sock 33003592 For 86-87 Jeep Cherokee | eBay

This one looks more like what was used originally Mopar Fuel Gas Tank Sending Unit Filter Sock NEW 5/16 | eBay

They are out there - but not at your corner auto parts store.
It looks like yours turned black (or close to it). That part was not "the" problem – but would be a problem for a vehicle with a high fuel demand. The sock is to keep the big stuff out of the fuel lines.

Note: the sender looks to be in great condition (no rust).

I would have replaced it (like you did) and what you used will work fine (and maybe even better than the original part did).
BudW
 

Idle Ender

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Yeah, it could break 100 before the gearing change. It kinda fell into disrepair in the time it took to put the diff in, so a tune was in order. Its running fantastic now, just no top end. Ill find it.

Im not sure what the filter was for originally, but it fit! Lol. Yeah the pickup is in great shape. Its original with a Mopar stamp on it.
 

LSM360

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Right now I would put a fuel pressure gauge on it. If you don't have one it would be worth having a mechanic test the fuel pressure, bringing the revs up slowly and see what kind of fuel pressure you have at the higher rpm's.
 

Idle Ender

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Yeah, it could break 100 before the gearing change. It kinda fell into disrepair in the time it took to put the diff in, so a tune was in order. Its running fantastic now, just no top end. Ill find it.

Im not sure what the filter was for originally, but it fit! Lol. Edit: Yup. Its totally a square body Cherokee filter. I had dremmel-d the end off it and wrestled it on there. Half the car is cobbled together from Jeep parts it seems like. Yeah the pickup is in great shape. Its original with a Mopar stamp on it.
 

Idle Ender

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Woops. Meant to edit my old post and it got goobered up. Lol. Doing this on my phone.
 

BudW

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I would agree with AJ/FormS.
Fuel pressure and fuel volume work hand in hand. You need a pressure gauge to test pressure (easier said than done, in some cases).

You don’t need any fancy tools to perform a fuel volume test, except for a stop watch (or timer) and something for fuel to be pumped into and be measured by.
Be sure to get your better half's permission before dragging something out of her kitchen (you have been warned and she will know, no matter how well you hide it/what you do).

There is a lot about this if you Google or YouTube it.
BudW
 
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