old yellow 78
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Aggghhh!!! I hate to see this old '78 plain jane volare 4 speed being parted out!! It looks quite decent from the pics that are available. It's on EB: Manual Transmission 4 Speed Fits 77-80 ASPEN 429476 | eBay
4 speed Volare wagon being parted out
- Thread starter old yellow 78
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AJ/FormS
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Yeah, what a shame he didn't offer up the car whole.
Kermit
Well-Known Member
I contacted them. They are a tow/salvage yard. Apparently the car is completely rusted through the floors/frame rails. I wanted the 4 speed hump.
4speedjim
Well-Known Member
He will not sell the hump. Period
Jonnyuma
Well-Known Member
I'd REALLY like to have the whole works to convert my Lebaron. I must be sick in the head because I was just thinking the other day how nice it was to not have to shift gears (both my pickups are manual and I drive a 13-sp truck at work).
I'd also like to have the hubcaps... they look to be in good shape.
I'd also like to have the hubcaps... they look to be in good shape.
4speedjim
Well-Known Member
I spoke to 2 guys. Both were nice, but the internet salesman didn't want to hear anything about selling the shifter hump. I bet if you called them you could buy whatever you needed very reasonably. (except the hump) Maybe if you spend enough he would throw the hump in, but he was pretty firm on not selling it. 800 533 4356. Theyre Pacific time to you have time to call them today.
Kermit
Well-Known Member
I was told the hump is rusted through. I bought the pedals from them, very reasonable price.
4speedjim
Well-Known Member
I agree. They aren't trying to retire on one car. I put the number up in hopes us FMJ folks can take advantage of the listing. The steering column should get snapped up to
.
Jonnyuma
Well-Known Member
That might be worth picking up then, huh. Are the OD trannies as robust as the old 4-speeds? Gotta admit, I'm not versed on much beyond 1975 or -6.
Kermit
Well-Known Member
Not quite. They are good transmissions but they have their weak points. They came with an Iron case at first, then went aluminum. The Iron case is stronger. My biggest gripe with the 833od is the 1-2 shift. First gear is like 3.09 and second is 1.7 something if I remember right. Not terrible with the right amount of torque, but doesn't feel very sporty to drive.
4speedjim
Well-Known Member
The OD shafts aren't as robust as the 4 speeds. The OD gear is tiny, puny, diminutive. About the diameter of the shaft. (1" I think, 9 teeth IIRC?) They will safely handle 400hp on street. Not good for 18" slicks and 5000 rpm launches. If you put steel bushing in the aluminum case, you can run big power through them. You can swap complete gear sets between cases. You cant mix and match anything. GM used the same 833 OD gear set and case in pickups through the 80s. The gm input/output and front of the case is drilled different for the gm. Internally theyre the same part #s. The gm input is 10 spline, Mopar is 18 Hemi/440/6 or 23 all others. GM input might be 1/2" shorter than the Mopar input. I think Mopar had 3 different gear sets, maybe 4. First gear # is how Ive always ID'ed them.
Hemi 18 spline had 2.65 or 2.44 close ratio.
23 splines are A body 3.09 4 speed and the Mopar/GM OD, 2.66 regular B,C&E body 4 speed, 2.45 close ratio
The 3.09 4 spd & OD is most common.
Go to Brewers transmission for all the details and to correct any of my mistakes.
Hemi 18 spline had 2.65 or 2.44 close ratio.
23 splines are A body 3.09 4 speed and the Mopar/GM OD, 2.66 regular B,C&E body 4 speed, 2.45 close ratio
The 3.09 4 spd & OD is most common.
Go to Brewers transmission for all the details and to correct any of my mistakes.
Oldiron440
Well-Known Member
There was a A body /6 with a lower fist gear ratio in 65,66.
4speedjim
Well-Known Member
Right, Iron cased with that funny output flange. I think they're 2.66 first also.
Kermit
Well-Known Member
Only 65 had the ball and trunnion, 66 used a yoke. They were close ratio with a 3.09 first. Slant six only.
AJ/FormS
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What I think I know:
The early boxes are 3.09-1.92-1.40-100; I got my gearset from Passon. He said it was from a 65-273. I also needed to purchase a long shaft from him for the GV, which I put behind it.
The 3.09-1.67-1.00-.73od can handle a street 360 in first and second ok, but I blew two od gears up and one input...... on the street with BFG 295/50-15s and no traction aids. The dinky od gear has either 21 or 18 teeth on it, so is very weak( diminutive, for sure,lol). Yeah that's 21 OR 18, depends on the model you get, and you cannot swap parts between either box! So I had to buy a third box! And another spare,#4. I now have a rack full of 833 junk,er, used-parts,lol.
I've been abusing that early box for over 10 years with over 400hp, and split-shifting the GVOD without a clutch, so IMO she's a keeper.
And you are right about the 1-2 shift! It is 54% so when you rev it to 2800, my chosen "normal" shift rpm, the Rs fall to 54% or 1512, so your engine better have some balls down there, most hi-perf V8s don't. And in 1.67 ratio the non-Hi-Compression engine takes forever to accelerate up out of that hole. And you cannot happily run a deep rear-end cuz then you're outta first gear almost right off the line. Second gear wants 4.10s with that box, but first only wants 3.55s.
My low compression 318 was sorta Ok with it, But it was way happier, by running a deep rear and splitting gears with the OD. Then she really woke up.
I ran 3.09-2.41-1.67-1.30-1.00-.78od-.57od;GVOD in red. That's 7 usable ratios;and
splits of; .78--.69--.78---.77---.78---.73.
I ran that with 3.55s,3.91s,4.30s, and 4.86s.. The final drive with 3.55s (my favorite) was 2.02 in top gear. So 65 was 1630rpm.
But with the 318, the splitting was sorta mandatory, to get anywhere in a hurry.
So that was my winter engine.
My summer engine was a 10.9Scr, HO 367, with a 223* cam, so it had mega-torque. But I got tired of that whole rig-ma-roll, and finally settled on the early ratio, still with the OD unit. Ratios now are
3.09-2.41-1.92-(1.50-1.40)-(1.09-1.00)-.78od, making this a very versatile 6- speed, which I use in several different ways, and most of the time, not at all..
The 230* cam I run now is also happy with the 3.55s. I could actually run 3.23s, but the 3.55s trap better at 93mph in the 1/8th, and also at 65 in second: so me being as lazy as I am, they can stay.
But yeah that second gear is waaaay out there. You have got to rear-gear it right for your combo. And I recommend getting the second gear ratio right, and let the rest be what it is. For me that would be 6.82 or; 6.82/1.67=4.10s,say 3.91s at the least. Yeah, this would make a drag-race first gear of 12.08, but that's how it goes; just rev it up to 3500 in first and when the Revs fall to 1900, live with it. and when you buzz second up to 3500, and the revs fall to 2100, live with it. 65=2300, so that's nice.
The other option is to build the engine from scratch, to use this very wide-ratio box.
The only thing I liked these for was that I could buy them for 50 to 150 at swap meets; about the price of new brass rings, and maybe it had good bearings.
Waaaaaaaaaaay out there
Here's a tip; don't try this box with a 108LSA cam and a low pressure engine; The powerband is just too narrow, and then when the cam falls off the power on the shifts,you'll be measuring acceleration in slo-mo
The early boxes are 3.09-1.92-1.40-100; I got my gearset from Passon. He said it was from a 65-273. I also needed to purchase a long shaft from him for the GV, which I put behind it.
The 3.09-1.67-1.00-.73od can handle a street 360 in first and second ok, but I blew two od gears up and one input...... on the street with BFG 295/50-15s and no traction aids. The dinky od gear has either 21 or 18 teeth on it, so is very weak( diminutive, for sure,lol). Yeah that's 21 OR 18, depends on the model you get, and you cannot swap parts between either box! So I had to buy a third box! And another spare,#4. I now have a rack full of 833 junk,er, used-parts,lol.
I've been abusing that early box for over 10 years with over 400hp, and split-shifting the GVOD without a clutch, so IMO she's a keeper.
And you are right about the 1-2 shift! It is 54% so when you rev it to 2800, my chosen "normal" shift rpm, the Rs fall to 54% or 1512, so your engine better have some balls down there, most hi-perf V8s don't. And in 1.67 ratio the non-Hi-Compression engine takes forever to accelerate up out of that hole. And you cannot happily run a deep rear-end cuz then you're outta first gear almost right off the line. Second gear wants 4.10s with that box, but first only wants 3.55s.
My low compression 318 was sorta Ok with it, But it was way happier, by running a deep rear and splitting gears with the OD. Then she really woke up.
I ran 3.09-2.41-1.67-1.30-1.00-.78od-.57od;GVOD in red. That's 7 usable ratios;and
splits of; .78--.69--.78---.77---.78---.73.
I ran that with 3.55s,3.91s,4.30s, and 4.86s.. The final drive with 3.55s (my favorite) was 2.02 in top gear. So 65 was 1630rpm.
But with the 318, the splitting was sorta mandatory, to get anywhere in a hurry.
So that was my winter engine.
My summer engine was a 10.9Scr, HO 367, with a 223* cam, so it had mega-torque. But I got tired of that whole rig-ma-roll, and finally settled on the early ratio, still with the OD unit. Ratios now are
3.09-2.41-1.92-(1.50-1.40)-(1.09-1.00)-.78od, making this a very versatile 6- speed, which I use in several different ways, and most of the time, not at all..
The 230* cam I run now is also happy with the 3.55s. I could actually run 3.23s, but the 3.55s trap better at 93mph in the 1/8th, and also at 65 in second: so me being as lazy as I am, they can stay.
But yeah that second gear is waaaay out there. You have got to rear-gear it right for your combo. And I recommend getting the second gear ratio right, and let the rest be what it is. For me that would be 6.82 or; 6.82/1.67=4.10s,say 3.91s at the least. Yeah, this would make a drag-race first gear of 12.08, but that's how it goes; just rev it up to 3500 in first and when the Revs fall to 1900, live with it. and when you buzz second up to 3500, and the revs fall to 2100, live with it. 65=2300, so that's nice.
The other option is to build the engine from scratch, to use this very wide-ratio box.
The only thing I liked these for was that I could buy them for 50 to 150 at swap meets; about the price of new brass rings, and maybe it had good bearings.
Waaaaaaaaaaay out there
Here's a tip; don't try this box with a 108LSA cam and a low pressure engine; The powerband is just too narrow, and then when the cam falls off the power on the shifts,you'll be measuring acceleration in slo-mo
Last edited:
4speedjim
Well-Known Member
Currently 1 18 spline and 2 ODs on the rack. I'm having an aluminum case bushed and dropping a Hemi set in that. I don't want all that weight. Its a street tire car. I wasn't aware there was a 3rd close ratio gear set option. Closer ratio, yes. Everything is a closer ratio than the OD with that stupid 3.09 1st.
Have you seen the passion 5 speed gear set? The 885 instead of 883. That's a piece of art. What a simple effective solution. Spendy for sure. Simple idea. Its a shame Detroit works like the Govt. That should have and could have extended the 883's life span through 2000. Maybe kept the company(s) afloat.
Have you seen the passion 5 speed gear set? The 885 instead of 883. That's a piece of art. What a simple effective solution. Spendy for sure. Simple idea. Its a shame Detroit works like the Govt. That should have and could have extended the 883's life span through 2000. Maybe kept the company(s) afloat.
AJ/FormS
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hang on Jim
IMO
that box works very well in it's original application. It's just not really suited to a hot-rod engine. I think it could be great for a turbo application.
I bushed a box too, for my first foray, but when I went to Passon, for the early gearset, I let him talk me into one of his aluminum boxes, and a side cover. I think that trans is down to 85 pounds now,empty,with a long shaft and the GV adapter on it. It makes lifting it up there, a one-man job now.
_________________________________
Yeah there was a TA set; 2.47-1.77-1.34-1.00, and splits of .717-.757-.746.
But it likes 4.10s to get rolling. I practically gave that box away to a friend.
That box will be OK with a 108LSA, and even less. With a 6000 rpm shift, the powerband only needs to be 1500 rpm wide; great for a little dynamo of an engine.
IMO
that box works very well in it's original application. It's just not really suited to a hot-rod engine. I think it could be great for a turbo application.
I bushed a box too, for my first foray, but when I went to Passon, for the early gearset, I let him talk me into one of his aluminum boxes, and a side cover. I think that trans is down to 85 pounds now,empty,with a long shaft and the GV adapter on it. It makes lifting it up there, a one-man job now.
_________________________________
Yeah there was a TA set; 2.47-1.77-1.34-1.00, and splits of .717-.757-.746.
But it likes 4.10s to get rolling. I practically gave that box away to a friend.
That box will be OK with a 108LSA, and even less. With a 6000 rpm shift, the powerband only needs to be 1500 rpm wide; great for a little dynamo of an engine.
Last edited:
4speedjim
Well-Known Member
I agree with you 100% AJ, and your opinions are something Ive always given strong consideration to. Anything with a nice flat torque curve, like a Magnum or turbo anything the OD does work... ok. I am a fan of the OD, for a street car. My though was as I continue o build power, and traction the bushed box should handle the hp. I was accumulating parts to build a 500 B, but Ive been doing a lot of thinking on going SB. Matter of fact, I bought a E58 over the weekend. So I need to decide which way I'm going. This is where your opinion holds much weight. 500 hp SB or 700 hp B. With the B block the OD is out of the equation. The SB saves weight, improved handling, fits well and still allows me an aluminum case.
