'83 Revival

[6thGenImperial]

Soooooo, I got the '83 (my Avatar) in september of 2016. Before I could even get into the thing, I had a various issues that delayed me for several months. Then it rained for 8 months (literally) in 2017. Finally started getting come traction more recently and thing are happening. Initially, I had plans of doing some mods to increase the 318's power, but on reflection, I decided to wait and actually get the car running first, then flesh out a few things. I have the cam, etc, for a later date. I figure, when I go in to replace the plastic timing gear, I will do the other mods then. Yes, I said plastic timing gear. I know the literature says the Imperials got all premium stuff, but I believe the short blocks were pulled from regular production. Why? cuz I managed to spy a glimpse through the manual fuel pump location. I pulled the block off plate, and there it was, plain as day. I could see the fuel pump eccentric. Now why would a fuel injected car with an electric fuel pump in the tank, have a fuel pump eccentric for a manual pump in the engine? It was just easier, I figure. Unfortunately, that forces me to believe there's a plastic timing gear in there too. So, I managed to get the 4v to 2v adapter drilled to fit the weird bolt pattern on the intake. Right now, I'm just using a Rochester 2J used by Mopar in the early 70's. Same size as the Carter BBD's and Holley 2280's. I used a quickie drop in, ready-to-run HEI-style distributor. Again, I was already over a year behind. Ultimately, I want to re-incorporate a Mopar electronic distributor, but this was quick and cheap. That car had 4, yes 4!!! fuel filters. To quote Top Gun, "Not one pair, two pair!" That was factory stuff. So I took all that out, simplified the setup and did the customary single filter before the carb. Started right up and runs great. I've only done a short run down the road. The transmission didn't want to shift at first. I was zipping along in 1st (2.24 final drive), and after some running and heat generation, plus a manual run through on the shifter, the trans came to life as if jolted by the sudden realization that it was supposed to change gears. I do plan on a fluid/filter change with band adjustment now that it has shown it is capable. It engages instantly when at idle, so I'm feeling good about it. The rear diff looked brand new with a very light proper pattern on the teeth. This car had been stored for over 30 years. The previous owner had bought her at an estate sale, and was bogged down by the fuel injection system. He just wanted his money out of it. I looked at it and while I hate to admit I didn't know about that particular FI unit at that time, I had a good idea on how to get around it. I know purists are groaning, including the fellow who sold her to me. He droned on and on about keeping her original, while at the same time talking about how he couldn't find replacement parts for what he'd literally burned up trying to get it started by pouring gas into the throttle body. To me, it's better to have her on the road, not on blocks waiting for original parts. Anyway, it's SO wild, even on MayPop tires, that are outta round, the ride is something I'd forgotten. Cars have changed so much, and they just don't ride like they did back then. I know they handle better, but the loss of comfort, to me, is not worth the trade-off for slot-car handling. So, just wanted to post a long-overdue update. The Imperial, she's coming back. Next up, new tires. Then she will be road-ready. I still have things to do. The stereo powers on, but none of the buttons respond.The driver's side seat is pretty far gone (leather), but the rest looks new. Someone unhooked the power to the instrument panel, so that too. Dunno if the AC works at this point, it's still an R12 setup. The radiator was leaking, but luckily, a spare Ramcharger truck unit is a perfect fit, and virtually identical. The driver side electric window is a little jerky when lowering, and the windshield wipers aren't hooked up. Still, I look forward to cruising on sunny days til I get the wipers working again. Stepping out of a PT Cruiser and into an '83 Imperial is a total mind-blower. Keep that old iron running!

 

[Justwondering]

Quite a story.

I am going to send you a couple of 'enters' or 'carriage returns' so you can break up all that text into shorter paragraphs. My old eyes... lol I feel so old tonight.

I wish I had your energy this week. Totally understand the 'rained forever' issue. Seems like I almost start getting some traction on the 5th Avenue when I realize there is another issue to fix before I can get to the actual problem I started after.

Looking forward to seeing you on the road again!

JW

 

[6thGenImperial]

Sorry about that. I do get carried away sometimes.

 

[Justwondering]

6thGen -
I notice you are just down the road in Misssissippi ...
Do you have to worry much about rust?
JW

 

[BudW]

using a Rochester 2J used by Mopar in the early 70's.

The only time Chrysler used a Rochester carburetor was in 1971.
Rochester 2GV model number 7041180 - came on ’71 318 automatic, A, B & C-body only. E-body, trucks and vans did not use them. It think it was because of a strike or part shortage – or something like that,

Then, Chrysler used Rochester Quadajets from 1985-89 to replace the Thermoquad – after Carter carburetor went belly-up (in 1984).

Same size as the Carter BBD's and Holley 2280's.

Very true. All three (Carter BBD, Holley 2280/6280 and Rochester 2GV (for Chrysler)) carburetors will all interchange - except for the choke thermostat rod is slightly different length on the three models. The fix is to use the choke thermostat with the respective carburetor assembly.

The radiator was leaking, but luckily, a spare Ramcharger truck unit is a perfect fit, and virtually identical.

The '80's pickup radiators are the same size as the 26" F/M/J-body radiators and can be interchanged (Providing small block for small block and /6 for /6). Most of the '70's pickup radiators are bigger and can fit in some cases.

Chrysler used the plastic tooth camshaft timing gear – because it is quieter (and cheaper).
Only the Fleet and H.D. versions got the all metal timing gear sets – and those had to be special ordered.

The Imperial engine is the same as the other 318’s were – except for intake manifolds and fuel pump – so yes, they came fuel pump eccentric’s on them. The block-off plate was installed in engine prep room – which was just before engine got dropped onto the K-frame.


The two final filters (with the two “Y” pipes, were ultra-fine filters. The fuel injected (front wheel drive) cars in the later ‘80’s used the same type of ultra-fine fuel filter – but it was 4 times the size.


If you were to find some 2.81 gears for the rear differential – that will wake the car right up and fuel mileage will be about the same.
Even better, find some 3.21’s or 3.55’s (3.55’s are common in pickups) and you will find available power is a lot better – but fuel mileage will drop a tick on the highway. In-town – you might not even notice it.
BudW

 

[Oldiron440]

I've always liked a driving work in progress!

 

[6thGenImperial]

6thGen -
I notice you are just down the road in Misssissippi ...
Do you have to worry much about rust?
JW

You won't find any Model T's sitting in a field down here. Still, it's much worse in more northern areas (Tennessee, Carolinas, etc) where they salt the roads in the winter.

 

[6thGenImperial]

The only time Chrysler used a Rochester carburetor was in 1971.
Rochester 2GV model number 7041180 - came on ’71 318 automatic, A, B & C-body only. E-body, trucks and vans did not use them. It think it was because of a strike or part shortage – or something like that,

Then, Chrysler used Rochester Quadajets from 1985-89 to replace the Thermoquad – after Carter carburetor went belly-up (in 1984).

Very true. All three (Carter BBD, Holley 2280/6280 and Rochester 2GV (for Chrysler)) carburetors will all interchange - except for the choke thermostat rod is slightly different length on the three models. The fix is to use the choke thermostat with the respective carburetor assembly.

And I called it a 2J didn't I? I meant 2G. I was thinking 2Jet, like Quadrajet. Anyway, yeah, I stumbled onto that little gem looking for a 318 carb for an 85 RamCharger. It's much simpler than the 2280 that it had, so i swapped em. Works great. Was gonna use the bigger 2V that came on the 360, but the smaller 2GV had no clearance issues.

 

[6thGenImperial]

You know the funny thing on these carbs, is how we as car buffs tend to get all worked up about certain parts, but they had Rochester 2G's on Mopars in '71, and Qjets in the mid 80's, but they also had Carter Quadrajets on GM products in the mid-70's. Saw one on eBay a while back. Go figure.

 

[6thGenImperial]

I did notice one thing with the RC radiator that I had to adjust for. The lower radiator hose opening on the truck unit is bigger. I had to use the truck hose, as the car hose absolutely would not fit. I'm gonna take the original unit in and have it checked out. Might be fixable as it appeared to be a tiny leak near the top of the unit.

 

[6thGenImperial]

he only reason I mention the plastic timing gear is because I curse their existence, so it's particularly important to know, and address that issue. I've seen what happens when one disintegrates. I don't want to frag my low mileage Imperial engine.

 

[BudW]

I do not like or care for the plastic timing gears either. For customers I always try to get them to upgrade to the double-roller. Most times customers did, sometimes not.
For friends or family - no plastic gears will come through the door.

I have seen tons of the plastic gear teeth sheared off (or worn off) – even back when car was still under warranty. The double roller gears are noisier and can get loose over time – but I have yet to see one jump time, before (or fail).

I have no problems with people changing timing gears as a pre-emptive strike – if car has plastic gears (which almost all Chrysler vehicles came with (99+%, maybe)).

The good news is other than being stranded somewhere – the plastic teeth or plastic pieces will not damage an engine in anyway form or fashion – except for completely blocking the oil pickup – which I hadn’t seen, before. The plastic normally floats.
The being stranded somewhere – is not fun.
Pulling the oil pan to extract the broken pieces – is also not fun.
BudW

 

[BudW]

For the most part, Chrysler used two different sized 2-bbl’s (not counting the 6-packs or carburetors before the ‘60’s).

The smaller size BBD, Holley 2280/6280, Bendix/Stromberg WW3 and the very few Rochester 2GV – were used for 318 and smaller engines,

The bigger size (used for 360’s – 400’s) was the larger BBD (not many made, over the years), Holley 2300G/2210/2245 and Bendix/Stromberg WW15

The ’74 (and ’75?) Road Runner had a 318 2-bbl. The intake used the smaller 318 ports but the carburetor used the larger BBD (the 360-400 bolt pattern) – which is odd they didn’t use the Holley 2245 (360) carburetor on them. An odd 1-of intake.
I know the larger BBD carburetors are very hard to find – for a lot of people located and used them, in place of the Holley 2245. The ‘74 (and ’75?) Road Runner carburetor might be the hardest carter carburetor to find.
BudW

 

[6thGenImperial]

I do not like or care for the plastic timing gears either. For customers I always try to get them to upgrade to the double-roller. Most times customers did, sometimes not.
For friends or family - no plastic gears will come through the door.

I have seen tons of the plastic gear teeth sheared off (or worn off) – even back when car was still under warranty. The double roller gears are noisier and can get loose over time – but I have yet to see one jump time, before (or fail).

I have no problems with people changing timing gears as a pre-emptive strike – if car has plastic gears (which almost all Chrysler vehicles came with (99+%, maybe)).

The good news is other than being stranded somewhere – the plastic teeth or plastic pieces will not damage an engine in anyway form or fashion – except for completely blocking the oil pickup – which I hadn’t seen, before. The plastic normally floats.
The being stranded somewhere – is not fun.
Pulling the oil pan to extract the broken pieces – is also not fun.
BudW

The teeth might be harmless, but find yourself at highway speed, and have those teeth depart. Bent pushrods, punched rockers, bent valves. It was a mess, but it could've been worse. That's when I learned about plastic gears' potential destructive capability. Went back with new pushrods, replaced 3 damaged rockers, new lifters, replaced a head (luckily the bent valves were all in the same head), and a double roller all steel timing set. That engine was better than ever. I don't know how much of the damage could've been prevented had I stopped as soon as it started missing, but I was pretty much on my own (many, many years ago), and as long as it was running, I was staying with it. She got me home. Sounded horrible by the time I got there, but I was amazed at how little damage there actually was.