Air filter soaked with fuel???

gomopar89

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I was poking around this morning and decided to check the air filter and here is what I noticed: 1) The air filter is completely soaked with fuel and running down the sides of the housing. 2) The choke flap is in a vertical position and will not budge. 3) Very little suction on PCV valve. 4) Breather tube to air cleaner housing is smoking, smells like rich exhaust. HELP!

BTW: The engine was fully warmed up and at normal operating temp.
 

Darth-Car

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I would recommend not driving that car, a large fire extinguisher, and an immediate carb rebuild.
 

gomopar89

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Well, It cold starts fine and seems to run good when warm. My car has 41k on it with a new carb(from sitting for years). What is causing the choke plate not to close?
 

High Speed Pursuit

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Seriously, I am new to this forum. Is this the kind of help I can expect? I smart a** comment from a well known member!!!
Regarding Darth-Car's response...the last 4 words of his response are absolutely true...no need to dissect the details of a carb rebuild. Although its a new carb, there is obviously an issue with a gasket or rubber seal internally...new carbs have issues sometimes...which makes the first 7 words of his reply true...and obvious. If u choose to ignore the last 4 words or the first 7 words of his reply to you, then the words 8, 9, 10, & 11 become vitally important. No one is being a wise guy here...you are new to this forum and havent yet realized there is a bit of cynicism with a lot of answers from a lot of members, but my experiences on this forum have been more than positive and informative. Relax and take the meat of the replies and just ignore the parts u dont care for, but responding to well known members with a reply such as yours might find your future questions lingering without any answers. We all try to help grow the forum by being good stewards...read some of Darth Car's replies over the years and get a feel for his contribution to this site and to other members. Put me in the smart a$$ catagory if u want, but I'll tell u in advance...I'm not that smart. Good Luck rebuilding your carb...u seriously need to...
 

gomopar89

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Ok, sorry for the over reaction...I was looking for some helpful explanations on what the problem could be...
 

Master M

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I would advise not running your engine. You definitely don't want to risk a fire. Engine off and holding your throttle wide open, can you move your choke plate ? You may have binding linkage. Check your float level or needle not seating for the rich condition. Are you getting black smoke from the exhaust ?
 

slant6billy

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When you say new carb; 1) new, right from the box and you put it on, 2) a rebuilt ( you or store bought), 3) New but on the shelf awhile.

I got a street avenger Holley last year from a guy locally who ran it briefly on his wife's cuda S. Engine was questionable so the carb came off after a few weeks and put on a shelf in late 2015. I grabbed it in early summer. I was a little carbon-ed up but not back fired fried. Guy complained the secondaries wouldn't open (Vacuum actuated). He had the quick change spring kit and the lightest spring in there. I ran the carb just as it was sold to me and tested the secondaries with the paperclip - They worked just fine/ a little too early, so I put a stiffer spring. The week of preps for Mopar day @ Englishtown New Jersey in August, I noticed fuel like you described. The Vac ports at the bottom were filled with fuel. Vac adv port was fine and it is the only one I use. The brake Vac and Crank vent go right to my manifold. This gas build up was from some carbon. Mind, I never sprayed the carb or cleaned it. I just bolted it on. Now, folks can throw rocks at me, but I figured a local old school mopar guy who sells me a carb from his house is not going to lie about the carb, so it was a risk I was willing to take. I run with multiple fire extinguishers always. I store the car indoors, but roll it out immediately - so not to burn down the house. I mean treat your old car like it will catch fire and stay prepared! I've ranted that before.

So this fuel buildup continued.

As the fall car shows came to a close, I wanted to just give a good spray of carb cleaner. The car was warmed up and out of the garage. A few good sprays, start up and a few more. Went through a good amount of cleaner. Now the fuel build up aint there and it does have a crisper response, but the oil is now contaminated with the cleaner and carbon wash. The carb worked well, like you describe even with the fuel build up. So well, I famously broke an axle at the track with that "mildly dirty" Carb.

So that is my take on the Carb.

The other issue you may have is timing. If fuel is bouncing off closed intake valves, especially in rich mode/ Choke closed it can bounce back up through the carb. My brother's 73 Fury with the 360 did this. That was a a timing chain / gear issue. ( My old man was doing burnout's with it while my brother out cold after final exams).

What is the car doing while driving? Does it sputter, have decent power? What other symptoms do you have?

Give us some motor details: Slant6, 318, 360? 1 BBL,2BBL, 4 BBL? what carb brand?
Stick or Auto?

Lean burn Controlled?

Give with as much detail as you can.
 

gomopar89

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OK - I have an '89 5th , 318 2 BBL Lean Burn. Only 41K on her and she sat a long time. But when I got her 6 month ago, I was told by the seller that it had a new carb, computer, plugs, wires, cap, rotor etc...because the car had sat covered in their garage for a long time.

She cold starts fine and drives great on warm up and at normal temp. She does suffer from the dreaded lag when I step on the gas at take off and cruising(when warm).
I notice no suction at end of PCV when out of the grommet. PCV does rattle. Also a vapor is coming from the breather tube where it comes out of the air filter housing.

20170108_105331.jpg
 

slant6billy

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What do your spark plugs look like? They should be a little dark, especially the front No1 and No2. Second thing- What does your motor oil look and smell like? Is very black- like a mopar or does it have traces of gas- more just a faint hint. As for suction/ Vacuum? The carb/ intake Vacuum draw for the PCV should be obvious at idle. pull the vacuum hose off the PCV- BE CAREFUL not to break it. Now with the engine idling, put your thumb over the hose to see if you feel Vacuum? See if you can borrow a vacuum gauge. As for the valve cover breather? Sounds like you might have some blow by- Again I'm guessing. It may just be mild burn off. When was the last oil change? Try using some regular 10W30 Valvoline Conventional. Don't use Synthetic or Blend. A good thick oil is a cheap fix to that valve cover breather blowing some mild smoke.
 

slant6billy

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Now, back at that carb. It may have some carbon in it. Get it warmed up and shut it off. Spray real good down on in it. Leave the air filter off / lid. You can leave the base. Crank it over. Let it run. Give it a few good more sprays. As rule; hold off on that oil change until after the carb spraying. For shits and giggles throw a timing light on it to see if timing is jumping around
 

High Speed Pursuit

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If none of the above clears it up, I would buy another carb base gasket from a parts store, then remove the carb since you are relying on the previous persons installation skills...once removed, check your choke linkage to see if it operates properly and also check the black cover on your electric choke to see how far the marks are away from the centerline...could be completely pegged to one side or the other. Once the carb is removed, use an air nozzle on all of the openings and hope to get lucky on cleaning the ports out. My thinking is that debris or insects have clogged up a vacuum port and/or blocked your needle valve seats causing fuel to continuously pour into the carb, filling the bowls, and exiting thru the vents...except when the engine is running well and uses more fuel than is being pumped out the vents...when the car is running, keep in mind that your engine oil is most likely diluted with gas...does the carb look new or is it possibly remanufactured? Could be a bad rebuild...
 

Darth-Car

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Yes I have some more useless knowledge, that you will not care about, from an old guy who was driving these cars when they were new.

It does not matter if the PO told you that they replaced the carb on the car. The key to your story is that you got the car after it had been sitting for an extended period. New carb, old carb, or one just out of the box; it does not matter, modern fuels are their enemy. The Ethanol in todays fuels will destroy the seats, seals, gaskets, floats, and o-rings on these carbs. The affect seems to accelerate if the car is allowed to sit for a long period of time.

Here are the facts: Your carb is dumping, or leaking large amounts of fuel into your air cleaner. This is bad. You say the car bogs down on acceleration. These are all things that point to the fact that this carb, no matter how new or rebuilt, needs to be rebuilt again.
 

BudW

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I suspect either a carburetor needle/seat issue and/or a float that has absorbed fuel (therefore not floating any more). Either case will require carburetor removal and rebuild.

If the engine is warm to hot, the choke flap will always be in a vertical position. If cold, it will at an angle, at least until someone taps the throttle to reset it to a full choke position. If you mentioned engine temperature in your posts, sorry – must have missed it.

Having some vapor depart the engine breather tube when running or off, is nothing to get too concerned about. If you can see vapor under pressure leaving the breather tube, then I would get concerned.

An often overlooked maintenance item is PCV valve replacement. I recommend replacing one every 30k miles or so and the hose going to it. The valve has some vacuum going to it but sometimes is not full manifold vacuum. Checking the valve for correct operation is not easy to do.
The vacuum hose going to the PCV valve is an odd size to find, 11/32”.
A 3/8” hose can work, but you WILL have to use hose clamps on both sides of the hose, or it will leak vacuum on both ends.

After the “too high carburetor fuel level” problem is fixed, replacing the air filter and spark plugs might be a good idea. You might be able to get air filter to dry out and clean the plugs, but I wouldn’t mess with it.

I have had air filters catch fire on me and not know it. A fuel soaked paper air filter, a large amount of airflow (engine running), and ignition source (ie: backfire) can create a fireball ready to chase someone down in a garage (um, don’t ask how I know) and/or can burn a car (and/or garage) DOWN.
Somethings are just now worth the risk!

Note: these cars were not built to run ethanol. Ethanol does BAD things to these cars, so just avoid using it, if at all possible.
BudW

Note: as to the choke operation, I would like to see outside photos of your Holley 6280 from both sides, so I look at your linkage setup.
 

volare 77

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If it is flooding with gas , odds are a lot of the gas has went past the rings and is in the oil pan. If the oil smells of gas or is overfull I would not run the engine until you change the oil and filter.
 

BudW

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If the oil smells of gas or is overfull I would not run the engine until you change the oil and filter.
Very good point.
Gasoline does not lubricate like engine oil does.
Also having the engine oil level higher than it should be, the crankshaft will whip what is in the crankcase into foam, and foam doesn't lubricate, either.
 

89.Fifth

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Can you post a photo of the whole carburetor, without the air cleaner on top?

Can you see fuel squirting into the carb when you operate the throttle by hand?

As for your choke, the adjustment screw may be out of whack.

Either way, post a lot more photos, or video of the car running if you can.
 

jasperjacko

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If the pvc is not working, you will have excess vapors build up in the crankcase. The hose from the carb to pvc may be blocked. if the car seems to start and run fine, but you're getting fuel in the air cleaner housing, you need to look at the evap. canister to see if all the hoses are connected properly to it and the carb. There should be a emisions sticker under the hood that has this diagram.
 
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