Car Wash Question, maybe a little Strange

[kkritsilas]

Hi,

My 1981 Mirada CMX is red with a white vinyl top. I got the car used, and I have always assumed that the black spots on the trunk lid and hood (pretty much all of the horizontal surfaces) were surface rust spots, and when money allowed, I would get the bodywork done.

I found out, just by pure happenstance, that the so called "rust spots" are not rust spots, but black dirt spots. I actually was doing something else, and for some reason, started rubbing one of the "rust spots" with a finger. It started to move around. I then put a little bit of water in the area, and rubbed the rust spot, and a few other close by ones, and they started to dissolve. Interesting thing is that the paint also started to
get redder as well.

What I think the situation is, is that the car was left outside for a while (guy I bought the car from made no bones about that), and when it rained, the dirt stuck to the raindrops, ad the sun baked the dirt onto the paint. The paint is in a lot better shape that I thought it was.

What I would like to ask is if anybody has any ideas of how to wash off the dirt? I don't think that a regular car wash soap will get it done. I would need something more aggressive. Would dish soap be a good idea? Anything more aggressive that anybody can suggest? My current thought is to wash off the dirt using whatever method, then use a medium or fine cut compound to get the oxidation off. I will be doing this by hand; I don't feel comfortable with a power polisher, and I just want to get most of the oxidized layer of paint off as much as possible without damaging the paint any further.

So, dish soap, or can anybody make a better suggestion?

 

[Aspen500]

Depends on what you mean by dirt. Any pics?
You may want to try a clay bar with a quick detailer spray. The clay bars do wonders, even on what appears to be perfectly clean paint. Amazing how much crap is actually stuck to the paint. Works really good on windows also.

 

[kkritsilas]

I will post pictures when I get home tonight. I don't know how to use a clay bar, and from what I read online (yes, with the standard disclaimers about how accurate stuff is on the Internet) if you don't know what you are doing with a clay bar, you can damage just as easily as you can clean.

In any case, I think that a clay bar would be after the washing, and maybe even the initial pass with the medium/fine cut compound. I think that I should start with a thorough wash first, to at least get the major parts of the dust spots off. I am trying to figure out what the best soap is (there is no wax on it anyway), and the best mechanical device (terry cloth, bug sponge, one of those brushes that attach to the end of the water hose, pressure washer, etc.) to get the dust spots off without damaging the paint any more than it is already. I am under no delusions that the car doesn't need a paintjob, I'd just like to to look its best the way that it is now.

 

[MiradaMegacab]

X2 on the Clay Bar.
Wash the car first, then clay bar. Follow with a compound, polish, cleaner wax...ect.....
Mothers and Mequires Clay Bar kits both come with 2 clay bars. Break them in half, kneed them after a couple of passes. Spray the paint surface and the bar as you kneed it.... Lube is good!!!!!!!

 

[Justwondering]

x2 on the clay bars. I used it for my molds at the fiberglass plant. Is amazing how clean you can get things with something simple.

 

[Aspen500]

About the only way you could damage using a clay bar is if it was used on a dirty car before washing first. Then it could scratch.

Use plenty of detailer. The clay should glide over the paint, not drag. After a while you'll get a feel for it. Don't be alarmed by what sounds like sandpaper at first. That's just the junk being drawn out of the paint. It'll go "scratch, scratch, scratch, silent.................That's when you can stop, the paint is clean.
As I mentioned, even on what seems to be spotless paint, the amount of contaminants that the clay removes is amazing.

Try it on the glass also. Run your fingers across the glass and then clay bar all the windows followed by a regular cleaning with window cleaner (Sparkle brand works excellent) and micro fiber towel. Now, run your fingers across the glass. Exact same thing on the paint.

Whoever came up with the clay bar technique was a pure genius. It'll even take off light paint overspray.

 

[kkritsilas]

A couple of pictures to help visualize what I am saying:

Overall trunk lid:

 

[kkritsilas]

What it looks like after the swipe with a wet finger:

 

[kkritsilas]

You can see that the "black spots" actually wipe off. The paint underneath is in far better shape than the initial impression would lead you to believe.

 

[80mirada]

I would wash it about two to three times using a sponge to get all of the loose stuff off. Then clay bar kit, buy an extra bottle of spray detailer. When you are done you will need a good wax afterwards, you will be amazed at how good the paint looks

 

[Cordoba1]

I'm going to put this out there: I think it's a combination of mold and moss. When cars sit outside long enough, they'll get covered in dust. If you'r climate is moist enough, that dust will remain wet enough for very small organisms to grow in. That paint looks too far gone for the clay bar, I'd start with a car wash, then go over it with rubbing compound. The distillates in the compound are going to lift off and kill anything "living" on your paint. Take it easy with "rubbing" compound as it will rub your paint off with very little effort. After the compound, apply a layer of cleaning wax. In the case of your well-weather paint, just use Turtle Wax. It's got a slight cutting agent built in, so you can skip polishing compound. As a last step, buff the wax with any auto detailing spray. In the case of the pictures you showed, skip the expensive products, they won't work miricles on paint that far gone. As far as the clay bar goes; I love them, but think they are best for finishis that are in better shape than yours. If you decide to take any of the multi-steps that I or others have outlined, plan on spending at least 4 hours, but you'll be amazed what a little elbow grease can do. Heck, even a simple Wash and Hand Wax can easily burn up 2 hours. A final note: It's okay to use dish soap for your first step, but don't use it after you get the car looking good. It strips wax and protection right off! After you get it looking, well, better; use only car-wash soap which is ph balanced as to not strip the protection you spent so long applying.

 

[jasperjacko]

Start out with dish detergent like cascade in warm water and wash as you normally would. You will have reddish Orange water running off the car as it strips away the oxidation. Then use mineral spirits or kerosine and remove things like tar and such. Then wash again with normal car wash soap. Now you can proceed with your milder polishing/buffing products as suggested. Make sure to apply wax afterwards. The dish detergent will save a lot of time and materials.

 

[jasperjacko]

I think you will be shocked at how good that will come out.

 

[kkritsilas]

I am already shocked at how good the paint underneath actually is. See the enclosed picture, after about 20 minutes of applied elbow grease. I mixed up some dish soap and water in a spray bottle. Sprayed half the trunk lid (should be able to see which half in the picture). Funny thing is, the color is going back to being more of a red than the more orange color it had before. The dish soap seems to be really good at loosening up the black spots. I don't know if they are mold/moss, but the car was sitting outside in Alberta. We get a lot of sunlight most years, and it is very dry here almost all the time. Could be moss/mold, but considering how hard the spot are, I am more inclined to go with the baked on dust, which blows around here all the time.

Have no doubt though, paint is still quite rough underneath. That will probably improve when I take some rubbing/polishing compound to it (probably some Meguiar's #1 or #2). I know its not going to look really shiny, or under no delusions that the cars doesn't need body work/. to be repainted, but it will look quite a bit better, which will keep my enthusiasm up for working on it.

P.S. Thanks to all for the information and encouragement. I am re-energized about gettting this car on the road now. I will start by cleaning it up.

 

[Aspen500]

Whatever it is, at least you're able to remove it. It really does look like that mold/mildew that collects on cars that sit outside for a long time, especially if they're parked under trees.

 

[Darth-Car]

It looks like you are on your way. Well done!

 

[Justwondering]

kkritsilas ... we must be channeling the same mopar magi. After I finally trapped the mouse out of the car, I took a more critical look at the sad paint status of the exterior.
I also found the black bits but felt it was because I park under trees and we had 79 inches of rain last year with already 27 inches this year. Mine removed easily with car wash detergent with just a hand wash so I figured it was like Cardoba1 said -- moss, mildew, etc.
The aluminum bits around the window cleaned up best with repetitive motion and regular car wash detergent.
Went through 5 or 6 microfiber towels.
Plan on waxing it today to see how it looks when finished.

I hope mine comes out looking as improved as yours does.

 

[volareandgtcat]

That is a great improvement ... you're definitely on your way!!

 

[kkritsilas]

I will be cleaning off the rest of the trunk lid this weekend, weather permitting, and will then try some Meguiar's #1 (medium cut) or #2 (fine cut) paint cleaners. I don't expect to get a great shine out of the existing paint, but if I can get the paint to where at least the rough surface texture is a significantly improved, I will consider this a success and I have a way forward for the rest of the car.

I don't expect acrylic enamel to ever have the shine of a base coat/clear coat paint job (unless I repaint it that way). I just want to get it to the point where a wax would be possible, to prevent further paint degradation until I can get it repainted. It would be unreasonable to expect that a 35 year old paint job, left out in the elements for a number of years to look factory fresh. I don't expect a new acrylic enamel paint job to look as shiny as a base coat/clear coat paint job, just because of the shine of the clear coat.

 

[7T8 Custom]

38 year old paint.