Changing Cluster Bulbs ..... 1988 Fifth

[gporeilly]

Hey guys & Gals I need your help to solve a small but frustrating problem. The cluster lights seem a bit dim even when turned up to the highest so I am just trying to update/change the bulbs in the main cluster on my 1988 Fifth to see if replacements will make a difference. I have the original service manual and no problem to remove the cluster bezel. Also a breeze to remove the top cover and trim pad to replace the front speakers at the same time.
My snag is removing the cluster assembly itself to access the bulbs. The manual says to remove the three {3} screws attaching cluster and printed circuit board assembly to the carrier frame. I can clearly see and remove the top left screw and the bottom right screw holding the cluster assembly... but for the life of me I can't seem to locate that elusive 3rd screw to release the assembly completely ???

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Garrett

 

[89.Fifth]

I don't remember how many screws are there but I do know that the cluster will seem stuck until you realize that there's a clip that clamps it onto the speedo cable. That one confused the hell out of me twice.

When you're in there replacing bulbs, remove the blue covers that make the light green. I swear the difference in brightness is shocking. My gauges are much brighter and instead of green, they glow this golden yellow color like an old radio.

 

[Aspen500]

You may want to think about using LED bulbs also. Even with brand new bulbs, my cluster was almost impossible to see at night. I took the green domes out and used colored (blue in my case) LED's. Now I can actually turn the brightness down some, rather than having them at max. You can get them in blue, green, red, etc......i did all the dash lights in blue LED and the difference is like night and day, pun intended.

This is the type of LED you want. I believe they're called COB style. They diffuse the light same as a regular bulb. The "old" style LED will make the cluster blotchy because the light is too focused in one area.

Note on the bulbs. If you do use incandescent bulbs, be sure to use 168 and not 194. The 168 is higher wattage and is brighter than the 194.

 

[gporeilly]

I had considered replacing with the coloured led but cost prohibitive for good quality ones. Would like to have tried blue ones to match my Twilght Blue interior/exterior.

Using 168 instead of 194 sounds like a great idea. I have decided on using the Sylvania Silver Star for now which are brighter than the normal incandescents which are expensive in their own right. I see some on here have converted to halogen with some success.

Now the problem still remains to get that damm bezel assembly off to access the bulbs. Feel I am missing something simple in the removal.... Please keep the comments coming.

 

[Aspen500]

Only thing you need to be careful about is the heat from higher wattage (or halogen) bulbs melting the sockets or green filters.

Not sure about M-body but F-body says 168 for the cluster in the owners manual and yes, the good LED's are on the pricey side. The cheap ones are a waste of time and money.

BTW, having blue cluster (and HVAC, radio, etc) lighting is so much nicer than the green (JMO). Only downside with the blue LED is the console shifter pointer doesn't have the different colors depending on the gear like it used to but I'm fine with that.

Not owning an M body, can't help with the cluster removal,,,,,,,,,,,sorry.

 

[gporeilly]

Thanks guys, your insight is much appreciated. Glad to say I have the bezel problem licked. I never had the new bulbs as this project was to replace the front speakers. Had to put every thing back together without installing the bulbs as I have a car show tomorrow. Just a matter of deciding on the bulb type and tear everything apart again next week.
Aspen500, I would love to see pics of your blue dash lights lit up if you have any available and could you possibly advise exactly which lights you converted to the blue led..... sounds awesome.
Thanks again guys for taking the time to respond.

 

[Aspen500]

I've not been able to get a decent photo of the blue lights. This is the best I could manage. They look way brighter and washed out than they really are,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,darn camera. Only wish the A/F gauge had blue LED's instead of red but that's the only color they offer (AEM).

I did the cluster bulbs (only 3 bulbs on an F-body), HVAC, headlight/wiper switch panel, radio and shifter. The metal based ones are "regular" LED because that's all I could find, while the wedge base are COB style.

 

[gporeilly]

Thanks Aspen500 for the pic and info.... result looks awesome !!!

 

[Aspen500]

As I mentioned, tone the brightness down quite a bit for the actual illumination level. The footwell lights are only bright enough to make a blue glow in real life also. They're on top of the trans tunnel, just in front of the console. Something about driving at night with that black hole in the footwells I don't like for whatever reason.

 

[gporeilly]

If I went with the “cob” white led bulb, would you recommend the 194 or 168 ??

 

[Aspen500]

I don't think they use bulb numbers but, I bought 194 equivalent and they are more than bright enough. Last time I drove in the dark (last fall), I had the dimmer turned to maybe 75% brightness. At 100% they're actually way too bright, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[89.Fifth]

I don't think they use bulb numbers but, I bought 194 equivalent and they are more than bright enough. Last time I drove in the dark (last fall), I had the dimmer turned to maybe 75% brightness. At 100% they're actually way too bright, and there's nothing wrong with that.

What was the site or part number you bought from? I've tried getting some LED replacements only to find them not as bright as the originals.

 

[BudW]

I had to change some cluster bulbs in my ’77 wagon (with normal bulbs), a couple of years back. The M-body has about twice as many cluster bulbs as the F-body has.

After changing the bulbs, the cluster still seemed a bit dim.

I then got these clear Halogen bulbs off eBay (a box of 100).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Pack-194-Halogen-Signal-Wedge-Bulb-T10-3W3-White-Light-Turn-Lamp-Marker/222615741958?hash=item33d4eea606:g:RssAAOSwjyhZ58tS:sc:USPSFirstClass!73127!US!-1

Instead of having dimmers on full blast (which I do not like to do), now my dimmer is about 1/3rd of full bright and I’m pleased. The blue/green covers are still in place – so colors are still the same – only brighter.

LED does not produce much (if any) heat.
Halogen does produce heat – but generates more output for less electricity used (compared to original bulbs).


The car is designed so you can remove the bulbs from back side (leaving cluster bezel and lens in place) – but it is not fun. If you are replacing more than one bulb, it is faster to do it from the front (which – a person might as well, replace all of the bulbs same time).

That said, A tip I got many moons ago from a fellow tech – which does help, especially on cluster bulbs that cut in/out. Remove the black bulb holder. Take either a large eraser or a pencil eraser and work over the copper contacts on both the printed circuit board contact area as well as the two contact tips on the bulb holder. Sometimes those copper contacts just need to be cleaned every couple of decades, or so.
Extremely fine sandpaper or steel wool might to it as well - but an eraser will not remove any metal.


I hadn’t replaced the bulbs in my ’86 Fifth Ave, yet – but will be doing so soon. (which is part of why I got a box of 100).

The (clear) Halogens seem to be the most cost-effective method, I have found that do not require any other modifications – but like anything else automotive related, there will be several opinions as to what is best.

I also have discussions on these posts:
https://www.forfmjbodiesonly.com/classicmopar/threads/dare-i.7481/page-2#post-82652
https://www.forfmjbodiesonly.com/classicmopar/threads/turn-signal-switch-not-functioning-correctly.6490/#post-72371

I took an after picture of my dash after Halogen install – but pictures are not with me, currently. Will look for it when I get home.
BudW

 

[Aspen500]

Pretty sure I got all my interior LED bulbs from Summit. Maybe someday I'll do the exterior lights also but those are all plenty bright.

Sort of related note, I converted the headlights to Hella replaceable halogens (H3 I think they are? I'd have to look for sure) along with adding low and high beam relays. Brighter but not enough so, changed the bulbs to a higher wattage, the ones that have sort of a blue tinge to them, and that did the trick.

 

[Oldiron440]

I thought with LEDs that if you varied the voltage you got different colors?

 

[BudW]

I thought with LEDs that if you varied the voltage you got different colors?

Some versions are that way. Most are one-color (or white).

Some LED bulbs are non-dimmable – so a person does need to consider that before buying.


I have a relay kit that has ceramic connectors to use halogen bulbs for my wagon – but hadn’t installed it yet.

I did install the relay kit and Halogen headlights (normal rectangular replacements – not the Hella replaceable ones) on my ’86 Fifth Ave and that made a world of difference at night.
Well worth the investment (mumbles something about old age and eyesight . . .).

The relay kit was one foot too short for one bulb on the Fifth Ave.

For anyone wanting to drive their (well, any car) at night – the relay kit will produce more light and also takes the load off the headlight switch.
The only “con” that I know of is it takes a bit of work to make the system “hidden” – if that is an issue.
BudW

 

[gporeilly]

BudW..... would you recommend going with the halogen 168 in the cluster assembly rather than the halogen 194 ??? I know the 168 should be a bit brighter than the Halogen 194 but don’t want to overheat the socket.
Gporeilly

 

[BudW]

I took some pictures of my cluster, last night.

It was pitch dark outside and dash lights were turned full high (not how I normally have them). All dash bulbs were replaced with (clear) Halogens, including the oil light and turn signals. All light filters (green and/or blue plastic caps) are in place.
The oil lamp is, rather bright.

The photos were not doctored – except to reduce the size down from 4mb to about 600kb.

I was able to catch the turn signal light (not an easy task when phone takes a while before taking a picture)

A bit after turn signal flash.
Note: I noticed after the fact that I should have dusted, first (sigh).

you recommend going with the halogen 168 in the cluster assembly rather than the halogen 194 ??? I know the 168 should be a bit brighter than the Halogen 194 but don’t want to overheat the socket.

Well, the box my Halogen bulbs came in says it replaces 168, 194 and about a dozen other numbers.

When referring to 168 and 194 incandescent bulbs, the 168 bulb will be slightly dimmer than but generally will last a wee bit longer than 194.
That said, I’d rather have a brighter bulb and replace it more often when referring to the third brake lamp and for turn signals.
Also, the 194 will produce more heat than the 168 (but not sure by how much).


Now referring to Halogens, they do use less current sense it works differently.
Incandescent bulbs produce light by heating a wire in a vacuum.
Halogen (and a few other similar types), work by heating the filament which causes a chemical reaction with the gas inside of the bulb – which produces the light. Matter of fact, they say the more the bulb is used, the more light is produced, and light gradually turning whiter. Electrical consumption is not quite 1/2. It does produce heat – but not to the amount that incandescent bulbs produce.
BudW

 

[lowbudget]

I pulled the trigger on the 194 halogen. If I get a chance I will check how much more heat they put out....If I get all my Harley stuff done. lol

 

[JLN5thAve]

I am definitely following this one - I have working bulbs on my speedometer and that is about it. The gas gauge (Although it is incorrect) went dark years ago - and I have never tried to replace them. The information in my Hayes manual isnt very descriptive on the light removal and replacement from my skimming through. (I will edit this if it is)

I have always wanted to 'snazz up' the interior - which includes the lighting.