Dare I?

[drpreposterous]

What say you?

Those of you who have seen my posts know I've been looking for a good M in the hope/delusion that it could serve as a daily. My needs aren't great. I am semi-retired--work three days a week, though that commute is 50 miles round trip. I am a good nurse but lousy with a wrench. I am a humble check writer who must pay for all his maintenance and repairs...

My sensible side is considering a later (2006-2011) Crown Vic or Grand Marquis. Those tend to be in the $3500 to 6500 range, depending on mileage. Mileage between 45K and 150k.

My "delusional" side tells me getting a choice, rust-free and lovely M for $3,500 or so, and getting a top-end rebuild (got an excellent rebuilder on tap) with electronic ignition would be just as reliable. Check this puppy out. He's listed for $4k but texted he would take $3,500. Granny's old ride updated with calipers, wire wheels and a sound system...
1986 fifth ave

What say you? Am I delusional to suppose the M can match the Crown Vic's reliability? (I know it won't match safety, economy).

BTW, check this beauty out for the same price but 600 miles from me...
1986 Chrysler Fifth Avenue

 

[drpreposterous]

Here's the Des Moines beauty...

 

[Justwondering]

My vote is NO to the grand marquis.
I intensely dislike the way your body is 'sideways' in the front seat.

Okay, not sideways, but not sitting straight. I always feel like my feet and lower body are about 10 degrees to the middle and my upper body is sitting straight behind the wheel.
Makes my back hurt or my hip hurt and no matter what I never get comfortable.

Its the same weird orientation in Jeeps/Grand Cherokees from those years.

I'd go with the M-body.
Drive it for a year or so and if you don't like it, you can flip it for about as much as you have in it. Making sure you deal with the great northern winter salt issues.

That M-body is comfy and just makes you grin when you drive it. Great way to start the day or end it, in my humble opinion.

 

[drpreposterous]

Some of the "sensible" contenders...
2011 Crown Vic P71 Police Interceptor - only 76,700 miles
2008 Grand Marquis LS 55k
Mercury Grand Marquis LS for sale by owner

 

[Justwondering]

I love the des moines beauty... and I'm not much on the brown paint. But that is buttercream delicious!

 

[drpreposterous]

Thanks, JWonder. But I don't doubt I'll like it. I'm from a Mopar family (Dad worked with Exner!). The question is: Can I count on it for daily service with reasonable maintenance?

 

[drpreposterous]

BTW, I'd POR-15 (or Rust Bullet or oil or...) the living hell out of the underbody.

 

[Justwondering]

If you don't park it at my place among the pack rats...lol

The only thing with driving it just 3 days a week is the tendency for the fuel to dry out in my 87 fifth avenue but it has all original engine/fuel system (except for the wiring I've had to fix).

And the temps here are already hitting 100 this week.

As far as reliable, check the normal things like the front end tie rods, pitman arm, etc. and make sure its sound. Mine has given me no significant mechanical trouble since I've owned it other than the front end bits which looked to be original.

A replacement brake booster and I changed all the hoses when I replaced the non-functioning A/C compressor. And the compressor probably died from a dry seal and not being used for 2 years before I got it.

Reliable.
JW

 

[Justwondering]

Get the brown one in des moines and drive it awhile.
If you don't like it, shoot me a PM when you want to get rid of it.
JW

 

[drpreposterous]

So--supposing the 318 has good compression/no funny smoke or valve clatter--would I be better off taking the dollars I'd use on a top-end rebuild and instead doing these:

1. Going through fuel system (gas tank, sending unit, fuel pump, lines.
2. Going through Radiator/water pump/hoses/thermostat/heater core
3. doing electronic ignition and checking alternator, starter, battery.
and
4. Looking at front end (maybe some FirmFeel stuff)?

 

[Justwondering]

Personal opinion : yes.
1st important thing: being able to stop in a timely fashion and with great purpose.
2nd important thing: being able to go forward in a safe manner and for sufficient distance.

Even after sitting for years, my 87 had very little difficulty getting it running again. It needed a new fuel filter and good gas.

Drove it for 1 year before my dad backed into it with his chevy truck and busted the front header all to heck. It sat for over a year before I quit being mad and found a similar colored pick-n-pull fifth avenue to harvest parts from.

Its been reliable (at least when I can keep the rats out of the electric lines).
Once we get on the highway, it just hums along.

I will say you may need to address the cold weather start vs. warm weather start.
My choke rarely is ever active since its usually warm when I'm out in the car.
Someone with a more northern climate should chime in about that.
I have little to no experience with cold weather starting issues.

I like it and generally can fix the smaller issues on my own.

My brother is driving a grand marquis of one of the years you looked at and he has already had to replace injectors, shocks (more than once), and other items. Its always a 'plug and play' deal, not much can be worked on with these newer cars. Entire time he's had it the a/c has leaked coolant and no one can find the leak.

Which is good for him cause he is not and does not want to be a mechanic.

JW

 

[drpreposterous]

"I will say you may need to address the cold weather start vs. warm weather start."
Hmm...Holley Sniper!

 

[BudW]

I love the first Fifth (the two-tone silver/gray) looks like a marriage between JustWondering’s ’87 and my ’86 Fifth Ave’s. Just wish it was a lot closer to me . . .

On the exterior – both cars look very nice – but I would want either more pictures or spend some time looking at and under car before spending that much on either.

As far as Safety, Reliability and Economy – I would say any ‘80’s Fifth Ave compared to an ‘80’s Crown Vic or Caprice – the Chrysler would win or be a virtual dead heat on. Now comparing a Fifth Ave to a ‘90’s Crown Vic or a ’06-11 Crown Vic – then there is no comparison, the newer car wins hands down.
A person just cannot compare vehicle 7-12 years old to a vehicle that is 32 years old.


I have a feeling the headliner on the silver car is starting to come down (a problem with all cars made in that time frame, including Ford) – based off how it is starting to peel away from the trim that is visible. No inside shots on the tan car – so can’t comment there.


My ’86 Fifth Ave has been in my hands for over 10 years now. They only thing I have done to it is replace a leaking water pump, replaced the A/C compressor (not sure what previous owner was trying to do on it – for compressor was half taken apart and half of it was Ford parts, Replaced the starter with the mini-starter (starts so much better), replace the carburetor with a non-computer-controlled Carter BBD and remove headliner from car. I’ve also have a few flats on car – but for ten years driving – I think is good for a car with 80k miles on it still.
Car does need to have steering gear leak fixed – and original exhaust system replaced – and have the parts on hand to perform both (just no time . . .).

Both vehicles mentioned are in better shape than mine is – for mine has sat outside for last 30 years – and it shows.
BudW

 

[Justwondering]

I'd still go with the older M-body because of the comfort.
When my brother's wife died, he offered to give me her Grand Marquis and was upset I wouldn't take it.
It just kills my hip/back to drive in it for any distance.
In spite of the newer aspect and creature comforts, I just couldn't see myself in that car.

Now my younger brother with the grand marquis that he bought is more worried about idiot drivers and getting hit. So he wanted the grand marquis or a crown vic to (hopefully) prevent damage to himself if someone hit him in an accident.

I'm thinking you need to go see and sit in these beauties and decide which one speaks to you.

JW

 

[drpreposterous]

[QUOTE="BudW, post: 82358, member: 531"
A person just cannot compare vehicle 7-12 years old to a vehicle that is 32 years old.
BudW[/QUOTE]
Bud,
I like your take on the matter, but did want to clarify--I wasn't trying to compare the 5thAve with the Crown Vics in terms of safety or performance--just reliability/maintenance costs. Based on your experience, it sounds as though my choosing a 5th over a CV for my daily driving isn't necessarily reckless.
If I were to get a mini-starter, replace all brake and fuel lines, check/replace radiator, water pump, thermostat and hoses and maybe get that carb you talked about, it wouldn't exactly cost a fortune and maybe I'd have a sound driver...
BTW, the Des Moines FA owner said it's all original.

 

[BudW]

"I will say you may need to address the cold weather start vs. warm weather start."
Hmm...Holley Sniper!

Fuel injection will cure a ton of problems with cold start and drivability concerns. It should also help with fuel mileage (depending on how you drive it).

The problem is - there is no fuel injection system that bolt right onto a 318 2-bbl car without major modifications. There is a 2-bbl system out there, but it is not close.

If a person was to convert car the 4-bbl intake, then you would be in great shape – but that is not an easy job. Locating a few parts ahead of time and about a day’s worth of work (for a novice), it can be done, with fuel injection to boot. If a person got a fuel injection setup that also will run the ignition system – then you will have fixed a bunch of potential trouble areas with a day’s work.
BudW

Edit:
Note: The 2-bbl appearing Fuel Injection setup will fit onto a 360 2-bbl (or 383 / 400 2-bbl) with little (if any) modification. The 318 2-bbls have a smaller bolt pattern and we are left out (currently).

 

[BudW]

Both my ’77 wagon (an original upstate New York vehicle) and my ’86 Fifth has original fuel and brake lines. I doubt either will give me any trouble for another twenty plus years.

With that said, I do have plans on changing my fuel lines only because I want to increase the original 5/16” to 3/8” fuel lines because of my big block changeover’s plan. The 5/16” fuel line is marginal in those cases (with fuel injection).

I would get car in the air and look over the fuel and brake lines. They should be in good shape for what condition the outside of cars appear to be in. Now if they are rusty and if light prodding of a screwdriver makes a dent (or worse) – then yes – time for new lines.

Feel the radiator and heater hoses (not with car hot). If either feels hard or is over 10-15 years old, then replace ‘em. Most automotive hoses have the month and last two digits of year either stamped or printed on them (if you can find the markings). Do that and change the coolant every couple of years – and you won’t have a lot of cooling system issues, no matter what car you purchase.
I only recommend replacing the water pump or thermostat if either fails, first (unless you have tons of money on you).

I have never been a fan of Holley carburetors. I’ve worked on too many of them, to like them. Some people may say the same thing with Carter carburetors, which is fine. My computer-controlled Holley 6280 was acting as if the plastic float sunk (not uncommon on older carburetors). The cost of a carburetor kit, float and choke pull-off was going to cost me about the same as a brand new “generic Carter knockoff” from China (I guess Carters patient expired?) – so I went that route (via eBay).

Note: the Holley 2280/6280 choke thermostat is slightly different from the Carter BBD – so if you change carburetor, then you need to also change the choke thermostat.
Note: if choke thermostat is over 15 years old, it needs to be replaced anyway.

Right now, my computer “thinks” it is still adjusting the carburetor and it is controlling the ignition system – without complaint, but the carburetor is ignoring the computer. Both are working fine and have been for 5+ years, now.


Note: I will be converting both cars to 318 4-bbls and making sure that is working - before I install the big blocks, using a 4-bbl appearing fuel injection system. Which FI system hasn’t been determined, yet.
318 engines and 4-bbls are just not a good combination if you are looking for power.
BudW

 

[BudW]

There are four vehicles in my household:
2002 Town and Country minivan (wife’s vehicle)
1997 Dodge 3/4-ton diesel pickup
1986 Fifth Ave (318 2-bbl)
1977 Volare wagon (318 2-bb)

I drive the last three vehicles on a everyday on a rotation (today was my wagon – which is my 11-year old twins preference).

Wife hates the pickup because it is a 5-speed, its noisy and it smells (like diesel, that is) and wife can’t fit into the wagon – not until I get a tilt steering column installed first.

Matter of fact, I drove my wagon to Texas last year (about 800 mile round trip), visiting JustWondering in the process.

https://www.forfmjbodiesonly.com/classicmopar/threads/a-great-start-to-the-new-year.6034/#post-67558

I would not have any issue taking either car coast to coast right now – if I needed to.

Taken a couple days later.
BudW

 

[Justwondering]

good times BudW... looks like I need to come up and visit you next time

 

[old yellow 78]

I like them both. I usually don't care for silver cars, but the two-tone with charcoal looks quite nice with this body style. The gold is more unusual though. After having been t-boned on the drivers side in my first 2010 Mazda 3 with only 6000 miles on it, I am a firm believer in air bags. Both cars were totaled, but no injuries. I was thankful and impressed enough to go back and buy another identical Mazda 3 which I still have as my daily driver with 100k plus miles on it. I love my '78 Aspen wagon, and all older Mopars, but for a daily driver, I want the safety features that just weren't available 30-40 years ago. Just my opinion, but if the same accident had happened in my Aspen, I doubt I would still be here. So that is the safety aspect of things. As far as reliability, probably luck would play a part, as well as how well the car was maintained. No doubt the 5th would be easier to work on than cars of today, but then it would probably need more periodic work to maintain it than the cars of today. The only thing I've ever done to my Mazda is change the oil and put gas in it. Nobody is going to give the Mazda a second look, but I don't care about that for my daily driver. Also, the 5.whatever liter Triton V8 engine in my 2000 Ford truck seems to like to eat through spark plug coils at over $100 a piece. PITA to remove and change spark plugs, but otherwise, ok. Meh, but ok. If the Ford or Mercury have this engine, I'd keep looking. Just my opinion, but good luck in making your decision.