Few question regarding choke setup - and subsequent tips :)

8v-of-fury

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Hey there feller's, I got this issue which I thought was possibly an empty carb situation however it seems like it may be choke related.

What I have is this. Last 3 weeks it has been starting pretty damn good first thing in the morning, but this past week it has been stumbling immediately after firing and then clearing up and running fine. It would kick down as normal and then more times than not, have really good cold drive-ability characteristics. I could start it and run for a minute, kick down and drive away at 37f.

This past week however that stumble got worse and was actually causing the engine to stall after firing off. Then subsequently was a complete bear to restart. pumping, WOT, nothing.. all yielded the same result ; tons of cranking, and eventually a few cylinders at a time it would come on line.

I drove it Friday evening, and then it sat all weekend until Monday morning when I went to go to work. Same routine, few pumps, a miniscule amount of throttle and turn the key. crank crank crank crank crank forever, nothing. many pumps, nothing. Finally starts, cylinders catch up and runs fine. This instance had me definitely thinking my carb had run dry. However, how could it? It wouldn't go back down the fuel line (needles at the top of the carb), it would have had to evap or leak down in to the engine.. Which it very well could have. I sealed the secondary wells on this Thermoquad.. but they may be leaking? who knows.

It did this same huge long extended cranking today leaving for work too. Today after work I tried something different. I opened the hood, removed the air cleaner and physically watched the engine start via the remote start. I gave the throttle about 5 pumps to ensure the carb more or less still had fuel in it. I then checked the choke at full cold, it was about 3/16 open maybe which seems like it may be too tight? Anyway, I started it up but with my hand held the choke open a bit more than it normally sits cold. It seemed to help a bit, as the engine fired off first crank. It still stumbled a bit immediately after, but it did not stall.

I wonder what the stumbling after the start is all about, anything I can find on that description is saying it is an empty fuel bowl. I know for a fact this engine and carb will run/idle on basically no fuel in the bowl from a previous mistake on float setting LOL! I had a really shitty illustration and the level ended up being about 9/16" of fuel in the bowl hah.
2016-09-30 07.55.57.jpg
 

8v-of-fury

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Today I tried something different again. I started it via the remote (28-30f out) and worked the throttle choke manually under the hood.

2 pump shots, the choke closed as it should. I pushed the start button and the engine fired off instantly. It started to do its stumble, but I pushed the choke wide open and the idle picked up to a perfect clean high idle. Running a completely cold engine with no choke and high idling beautifully.

This seems to be about the amount of pull-off the choke can has, does it look somewhat alright?
 

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BudW

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I can't see your picture, for some reason.

Note: after you "Upload a Photo", click on it (lower part of post) to "full size" 0 but after you click in post where you want said picture at. Hopefully that makes sense.
 

8v-of-fury

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For soem reason with this photo.. on both phone and laptop.. i havent the option to full screen
 

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BudW

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Test photo
Test Photo 1.JPG

Test Photo 2.JPG


Note: If I had pressed the "Full Image" button then, then the picture would go where the curser is at (in this case would have placed picture after "Te” of Test but before “st” of Test).
 

8v-of-fury

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Budw, if you'll kindly refer to my first post. You'll see I know how to make the pictures full screen ;) This particular picture, when uploaded on both the phone and laptop has no option to be made full screen.
 

BudW

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Um, OK. Outside of my knowledge area, then.

There is a file type my computer doesn’t like (or website, or . . .), so I just stuck to JPEG and all has been happy (for me).
 

8v-of-fury

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LOL! very true, however.. does clicking the blue .jpg link in the photo that didn't show load the photo for you? It does for me.
 

Justwondering

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Jeremy. Don't worry the photo has imbedded code from the NSA. Just their way of mucking with you.
Not that I'm paranoid or anything. Lol
 

8v-of-fury

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HAH! I am Canadian, I don't have anything to worry about - Except frost bite. lol

I don't know what is going on with this choke though, quite odd. Wherever the car warms up is a nice black puff spot on the drive-way too. Obviously too much choke or something. Pretty sure every choke i've ever seen operate slams the choke plate completely closed when you pump the pedal. Then the pull-off opens it a bit when the engine has started making vacuum.
 

BudW

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Some cars need to be pumped twice.
How old is your Choke Thermostat?

BTW, what is the picture, with the jet skis, about?
 

8v-of-fury

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Choke thermostat is brand new this year.

I work at a marina on Georgian Bay (east side of lake Huron) and it was about 25f yesterday when we were still hauling boats. Heavy wet snow flying and all. What a great time. NOT lolol
 

BudW

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I'm thinking out loud hear, so this may or might not apply.
Is the gasket that is between the carb to intake, it is about 3/8” thick or about 1/16” thick?

Is the choke thermostat have a black electrical disk or white electrical rectangular box, the choke is wired too?
If so, can you verify (using a test light) the power side or that electrical disk/box is getting power when engine is “on”?
 

8v-of-fury

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It has the thicker hard one that is probably close to 3/8" yes. The choke heater utilizes the white electrical box. I do believe it has power from when I last checked (year ago or so), however the choke has no issue getting to fully open when the engine is hot. In fact I think it also does that in a timely fashion as well. It not being powered would just mean the choke stays on longer correct?

It would seem though that manually holding the choke at different positions does not make much difference.
 

8v-of-fury

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Fired it up tonight after sitting since Sunday morning. I changed the choke closed position to have the choke plate more closed at full cold, and upped the high idle screw a few turns. Gave it a couple pumps, didn't she fire off on the second crank and run pretty damn well? HOWEVER! The choke is now too far closed to run properly. It immediately starts running super PIG RICH, and bellowing clouds of black smoke. The idle will clean right up and it will purr perfectly if I manually hold the choke plate wide open (even on a freshly cold started engine). The only problem is, the pull-off is pulling off it's maximum amount but it is not enough action at the choke plate. As in, fully pulled off the choke is still far too closed.

Pull-off seems weak anyway, so I will be looking to get a replacement within the next few days.
 

BudW

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Sounds like a good time to remove the TQ and perform a bench adjustment to it – making sure all of the adjustments are spot on, before it goes back on. Changing the choke pulloff might also be a good idea.

Making those adjustments are a royal pain to do and time consuming – but well worth it.
It normally takes me about 1½ to 2 hours to get all of the TQ’s adjustments correct – and rarely are they correct – especially rebuilt and just out of a parts store box ones.

I would not let my enemy purchase a rebuilt (from parts store) TQ – for they swap parts from just about anything – including fridge parts and/or from kids toys – and man do those require a lot of work to get working correctly - sometimes requiring parts from multiple carburetors.
 
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