Got some work ahead of me.....

[Rustyroger]

I hauled my 1984 Fifth Avenue home a couple of days ago, a non runner with good paint.
To get it off the trailer some basic faultfinding found a bad coil. Remarkably, a local auto parts store had a suitable replacement - I'm in the UK - so I was able to get it unloaded and parked in my driveway.
Pouring some water into the radiator quickly established a freeze plug either missing or leaking at the back of the engine, well the exhaust manifold gaskets are shot, as I suspect is the rest of the exhaust, so the engine is coming out to fix both issues.
While it's out the radiator is getting a new core, and a transmission cooler is going in when it's put back together. The car will be hauling our travel trailer, I always do this with any car I use for towing.
All the wheels are coming off to examine the brakes, suspension joints, and wheel bearings.
It needs a headliner and trim refitting round the windshield.
All the above I knew of when I bought the car.
The heater fan and A/C don't work, the power drivers seat doesn't go backwards, and I dare say other electrical gremlins will come to light, I'm not surprised by any of this.
Most annoying, the rear passenger side door interior handle is missing, the pop-up lock has disappeared into the door and it is locked, might be a headache to sort this out.

I suspect I will be seeking help and advice from you guys in the near future, I know my way around cars, but I'm not familiar with any pitfalls or simplifed ways of tackling seemingly difficult tasks pertinent to this car.

Roger.

 

[Cambo]

Good luck with your project Roger, if you know your way around cars you should have no problem. There are some good posts from Justwondering about headliner and vinyl top replacement that might be helpful for you.

 

[BudW]

The exhaust noise most likely is coming from the A.I.R. injection pipe that bolts to rear of both exhaust manifolds. It is the black item seen in both pictures, located behind engine and just above the transmission to engine bolts.

Depending on your emission laws, you may be able to remove the pipe, and plug the ports on cylinder heads (as well as A.I.R. pump and so forth). If your emission laws require that to be in place, you may need to fabricate a new pipe. Those pips have a tendency to rust out (due to non-usage).

It is possible your 360 engine may have one on it, as well.


You mentioned

The heater fan and A/C don't work,

Are you saying the A/C blower is not blowing OR it is blowing but not blowing cold (or hot)?

I have a few lock knobs and door handles and I’m sure others do as well – so those parts are somewhat common (at least in the states).
BudW

 

[Rustyroger]

Thanks Bud.
Emissions law over here is quite kind to older cars, a 1984 car with its engine decently tuned will breeze our annual test, so I have some leeway on what I do.
The blower fan simply doesn't work, but I haven't looked at the electrical issues yet.
When I get the rear door open I shall be able to see what I need and may well want to do a deal with someone from this site.

Roger.

 

[BudW]

Do you have a FSM (Factory Service Manual) for your vehicle yet?
If not, I would highly recommend getting one.


I would recommend avoiding the Haynes, Chilton’s and Mitchells manuals. They do have useful information in them and will work in a pinch – but are just not as helpful as the FSM's are.

I found one on eBay on a quick search 84 CHASSIS BODY SERVICE MANUAL GRAN FURY NEWPORT 5TH AV | eBay
In ’84 there are two different books, one for Chassis and Body (as shown in above ad) and another book for everything else. You need both books.

It needs to say Diplomat and Gran Fury on them. If not, don’t get it (it will be front wheel drive or import). The name 5th Ave was not used on all year M-bodies.

This is a picture of my ’86 FSM which has everything in one book on it. My ’87 front wheel drive FSM is split up into 3 books.

Even getting a FSM a year or two newer or older will not matter a whole lot.

Note: I got the above FSM from eBay for about $15.00 US (including freight) about 5 years ago.
BudW

 

[LSM360]

'84 Fifth Ave with a 360 Bud?

The rear door panel comes off easy and should be easy to fix your lock that disappeared. Too bad you are across the pond though because so many of us here could help with parts.

 

[BudW]

'84 Fifth Ave with a 360?

Not yet, but should be soon.

 

[Rustyroger]

The trouble with buying stuff from North America is many private sellers won't ship overseas. It's fair to say that there are plenty of scammers out there, so it's understandable. Who knows, I could be a scammer too.
Rockauto ship to most of the civilised world, I see they are offering reproduction factory manuals for my car for around $12 I think. Mind you by the time they have factored in shipping and duties you might treble that figure. Still worth it in my view. I do have a couple of Chilton general repair manuals, which seem ok for looking up tune up info or basic specification.

Well, my wife and I are long overdue a USA vacation, we pick up heaps of parts when we are there, and get stuff shipped to their address or go pick it up ourselves.

Roger.

 

[BudW]

Well, my wife and I are long overdue a USA vacation, we pick up heaps of parts when we are there, and get stuff shipped to their address or go pick it up ourselves.

Thumbs up!

 

[Rustyroger]

Had some time to look into the cars woes today, it seems the ballast resistor is missing icm is fried, the coil is wrong and the distributor won't work properly without the computer hooked up. So another vacuum advance distributor with matching icm and coil is on its way, as well as two ballast resistors.
A new fuel pump is going on as well, I had to crank the engine for ages to get gas to the carb, however that was in the car when I bought it.

I'll keep a running report going, I dare say it will be containing requests for help and advice.

Roger.

 

[Rustyroger]

Well it's jury rigged into life.
A points distributor from an Aussie Barracuda 273, a coil from a BMC Mini, an electric fuel pump from an old Jaguar, and it can now be driven to my garage and my son-in-law gets his driveway back.
A vacuum advance distributor, icm module, coil, and two ballast resistors are on their way. a new fuel pump is going on as well, and the radiator will be treated to a heavy duty core, and a transmission cooler for when it's all reinstalled.
Just got a new phone, good opportunity to see how good it is as a camera, and learn how to upload pictures too.

Roger.

 

[Rustyroger]

The engine is out, for several reasons;
Some expansion plugs are missing, others are rotten, so a new set is on order.
I want to tidy up the engine bay.
The exhaust was blowing at the manifolds.
I took off the manifolds, and both have been blowing from small holes underneath the ports, four each side, not covered by the gaskets. What on earth are these for?. They were plumbed in to a tube at the back of both manifolds, maybe something to do with the air pump?.
I had hoped to download some pictures, but again my phone and computer have defeated me.

Roger.

 

[BudW]

In the mid ‘70’s, the exhaust manifolds changed to having the A.I.R. injection holes on bottom side of manifold (where is meets the cylinder head).

To make things more confusing, when the Magnums came out, they did away with the AIR injection ports when went back to the earlier exhaust manifold bolt pattern/port design.

It sounds like someone put older exhaust manifolds on a newer engine – in this case, possibly.

Pre mid ‘70’s small block exhaust manifold flange (note: pics swiped from internet).

Post mid ‘70’s exhaust manifold flange. AIR injection ports seen.

Pre mid ‘70’s small block cylinder head

Post mid ‘70’s small block cylinder head (note: ports are not drilled on this aftermarket head – but at least the head flange will accommodate earlier and later exhaust manifolds without leakage). Port holes indicted by red arrows (if the drilled ports were present).

If you are not worried about emissions equipment, then while engine is out of car, remove both exhaust manifolds. Tap the AIR ports and install ¼”-20 steel plugs (like this picture). There might be a metric equivalent, possibly. Just make sure the end of plug is recessed into the cylinder head. Ports do angle upwards somewhat.

Once done, you can remove the thin wall pipe that connects both exhaust manifolds (which most likely is rusted through) and can get rid of a lot of that plumbing.

If you wish to retain the AIR pump, then plumb it so it pipes air to the catalytic converter (only) or you can toss the AIR pump, as well.
BudW

 

[Rustyroger]

I'm going to do away with the air pump. In the UK all a 1984 gasoline powered car needs to meet exhaust emissions requirements is a co level below 4.5% and a hydrocarbon level below 1200ppm.
Just about any post war engine in good running order will breeze through that.

Thanks again for your help Bud, you are a diamond geezer. (that's an English term for someone held in high regard btw).

I have ordered the correct new gaskets, why someone put the wrong ones on beats me.

Roger.

 

[BudW]

My wife has been calling me an ole geezer for some time now.
Now I can take that as a complement.

I would still plug those cylinder head ports while engine is out – for it opens up a lot of what you can remove (smog wise).

Chrysler did not use gaskets between exhaust manifolds and cylinder heads.
If you have a warped exhaust manifold (or headers), it is best to get it machined flat – but in a pinch, a gasket will work.

IF someone added exhaust manifold gaskets (to head) and installed the wrong ones (the older style), then yes, you will have a significant exhaust leak there.
Toss the gaskets, re-bolt the manifolds back on (provided the rest of the plumbing is still attached) and that problem will be fixed.
If you plug the ports, then it will become a non-issue.


If it will help you, you can Email me (or text me) pictures from your phone and I can post them for you (send me a PM or conversation and I can provide details).

Thank you for the complement,
BudW

 

[Rustyroger]

Food for thought in your last post Bud.
I'm going to clean up the block and pay particular attention to the sides of the heads. I didn't see any ports in the heads when I removed the manifolds. Other than the exhaust ports to the manifold of course!.
I thought the engine was original simply because the air pump was still installed, and the esc distributor was in place. The carb had been changed though, but the inlet manifold has lots of vacuum switches on it. So I don't think the heads would have been changed. Mind you I have come across plenty of American cars over here that have been tinkered with by someone ill informed about how best to set them up, particularly regarding removing emissions related stuff.

I didn't know exhaust manifold gaskets weren't fitted at the factory, I will check the heads and manifolds for warping, if they are more than a few thou. out I will get them machined. I've got new (correct) gaskets anyway.
Yes, I will plug the ports.

My wife often calls me a "Grumpy Old Git". Not a complimentary term, but not as bad as some of the things she has called me.

Roger.

 

[Rustyroger]

Finally I have some pictures......

The manifolds, the passenger side has a central exit, the drivers side a rear exit. I guess to clear the steering gear?. If I decide to have a dual system fabricated would it be best to get matching manifolds or won't it make much difference in the real world?.

Quite obvious where it has been blowing!.

The top of the engine needs some tidying up.
I intend to run a standard vacuum and mechanical advance distributor (electronic ignition) and the Holley 2bbl carb. I'm guessing I need a vacuum port from the carb to distributor and another to the brake servo (booster?). I also see no reason to delete the egr valve on the inlet manifold, the car will be used for cruising and hauling our trailerhome, not beating down a drag strip. Any thoughts on the last point?.

Roger.

 

[Rustyroger]

The car before work started....

Roger.

 

[BudW]

I like that color. The Car looks real nice!

The factory exhaust manifolds should look like those and exit locations are correct. Center exit on Right side (the one with heat riser valve) and rear exit on Left side to clear steering components.
That said, something is off with those exhaust manifolds.

The Left side manifold should also have an Oxygen sensor screwed into top of it – which if you are de-lean burning, then that won’t matter.

The Right valve cover is not the correct – but may work just fine.

Now I have a number of questions – many of which might be helpful to know before ordering parts or before engine goes back in. I can’t see some of the details because pictures are a bit small (I’m getting older – so eyes don’t work as well).
BudW

 

[Rustyroger]

The left manifold does have an O2 sensor, I'll simply leave it alone.
I suspect the right valve cover is for an earlier model possibly without pcv. There is a pcv valve for the left cover. Should I plug the holes?.

Fire away with your questions, I will try answer them as completely as I can, if I don't fully understand any of them I will say so.
I'll take more, and hopefully more detailed pictures tomorrow.

Roger.