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  1. Bruceynz

    Bruceynz Well-Known Member

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    Hi Guys,

    I have changed engine in my car, hooked up the vacuum line for the heater, when the the heater is on you can hear something in the heater going tonk tonk tonk,(all the time the heater is on, its not the fan) its like a valve or flap moving inside the the heater, it never used to to do it, does anyone know what is going on? Have I not connected something?

    When I hooked the vacuum line up I hooked it onto a little connection I found on the power brake booster vacuum line. Could this be a problem?

    Thanks
    Bruce
     
  2. slant6billy

    slant6billy Well-Known Member

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    You have 2 vacuum lines through the firewall. One goes to the heater valve on the heater hose and the other is the vacuum source. So the source should be to the vacuum port on the carb. Were you running an Edelbrock carb? I can't remember, but the front port on the driver side is the non timed vacuum and perfect for the vacuum source for the heater controls. The port on the brake booster is risky since brake boosters can leak vacuum
    Hope that helps
     
  3. Bruceynz

    Bruceynz Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I will try taking the vac off somewhere else, I have a Holley carb, it has a timed and full vac, I have my dizzy hooked up to the full vac, something I don't understand but my mechanic friend said because my vacuum was low best to hook to full vacuum which seems to work ok.
     
  4. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    Of the two hard vacuum lines going through the firewall. One goes to the hot water valve. The other goes to the vacuum tree on the intake and gets full vacuum when engine is running.

    The port on the brake booster is for cruise control (if equipped).

    Note: if your engine is not making much vacuum (9 inches) then I would highly recommend adding a vacuum canister – or otherwise you’re A/C vacuum motors will not operate correctly.

    Most vacuum canisters have a check valve that will hold vacuum under a certain amount for a considerable amount of time. Easy to install – but will need additional vacuum hose to do so (mount on inner fender, behind front bumper – use your imagination, on where – location is not important.

    Vacuum canisters come in many shapes and sizes. A couple of examples.
    Vacuum Ball.jpg Vacuum Can.jpg
     
  5. Bruceynz

    Bruceynz Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I think there are some of those floating around I pulled off the car, will have a look. I will change the location for the vacuum take off for heater and add canister and see how we get on. Will keep you posted, also my holley adapter for the trans linkage arrived so will look at hooking that up at some point and set it up better.
     
  6. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    I doubt your car came with a vacuum canister (if it did, I would be surprised). Chrysler used them in a lot of vehicles, even newer ones (and a lot of older ones).
    The one in my ’68 Charger was huge (gallon size roughly).

    It doesn’t really matter who makes it – just as long as there is a check valve on one side.

    The FMJ vehicles made enough engine vacuum stock that a canister wasn’t needed.

    Modified vehicles, with low engine vacuum, have to rethink using vacuum to power items such as A/C vacuum motors and/or vacuum brake booster.
    For A/C controls, a vacuum canister fixes that problem - sense one deceleration will empty the canister so it will work for some time.
    The brake booster . . . is a different story.

    BudW
     
  7. Bruceynz

    Bruceynz Well-Known Member

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    Ok the thing I have is about about 4" diameter and probably 2" thick so its prob not big enough, I think it has Vacuum Amplifier stamped on it. So what is going on then, vac is low so that vac flapper valve in the heater tries to open and not enough vac so closes again the cycle just repeats?
     
  8. Aspen500

    Aspen500 Well-Known Member

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    If it says vacuum amplifier, that's not a vacuum canister. It would be for the EGR system.
    What it's for is to take the weak ported signal from the carb and "boost" it to something the EGR valve can operate with. It doesn't really boost the vacuum. There's a manifold vacuum hose hooked to it and another to the EGR. The 3rd (very small port) goes to the side of the carb. When it gets a small ported vacuum signal it then allows the manifold vacuum to go the the EGR. Hard to explain. There would also be a vacuum solenoid mounted next to it (also for the EGR valve).

    There should be a one way check valve in the line to the HVAC controls somehwere. May be under the dash or under the hood. Once there's vacuum to the HVAC system, it'll stay there even with the engine shut off,,,,,,,,,,,at least until you push a button on the controls and use it all up.
     
  9. Bruceynz

    Bruceynz Well-Known Member

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    I have removed the aircon, pipes, pump, radiator all to where it goes into the fire wall, will this cause any issues?
     
  10. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    The vacuum amplifier is a completely different item than the vacuum canister (one switches and/or boosts the vacuum signal. The other is vacuum storage, so to speak).

    The only hoses that “has to be there” under the hood, are:
    Fuel hoses, transmission cooler hoses (not applicable in all cases), radiator/heater hoses, PCV hose, brake booster and cruise control hose (if applicable), distributer vacuum advance (if applicable), A/C hoses (refrigerant, vacuum supply and Hot water valve – if applicable), Choke pull-off(s) and Air-cleaner hoses (outside air, breather and/or aspirator – if applicable).

    The EGR valve system (including the vacuum amplifier and several coolant temp switches), Air pump and its air switching valves, hot air manifold stove system and distributor vacuum advance controls may be required in many parts of the world (California is a good example).

    Before anyone starts ripping out hoses or snipping wiring under the hood, it is always best to post here for feedback beforehand.
    An old woodworking phrase comes into play “Measure twice, cut once” (which if not followed, turns into measure once, cut many times).
    Brucenz – I’m not implying you started to yank hoses. I’m talking to any/all members in future just now reading this.

    I’ve heard of a lot of friends trying to find things to get car to run correctly, or to pass an emissions test - after a weekend of “removing stuff” under the hood.

    That said, I’m putting my 5th Ave a diet soon – which entails the Lean burn, EGR valve and several other items. I just want to get performance measurements beforehand.

    BudW
     
  11. Bruceynz

    Bruceynz Well-Known Member

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    Hi Bud,

    I knew what I wanted from the beginning, we are lucky in NZ, I do not have to meet any emissions, not one little bit, I can make as much mopar V8 pollution as I like as long as its not blue smoke! But if you are a modern car different story! Can't do a dam thing to it! Dam geenys! So I can build the most kick butt fire breathing polluting mopar on the planet and the gov says as long as it meets all safety requirements and the body and brakes etc can handle the power of the engine your all good to go!

    So I wanted no air con - Waved my magic wand and bang that went to the bin
    No EGR - Far as I am concerned nasty idea! Crack of the whip and all that junk fell off to the floor where I stood on it until I could never make it work again!
    Lean Burn - A flash and a bang and that took its due place on the bin, good place for it! It worked ok but was mounted in the wrong place and was troublesome, better gone, improves reliability.

    All I have is a holley carb with a vac dizzy, heater and vac for heater and some fuel lines, PCV are gone and in place are breathers, PCV was another emissions thing!

    I was pretty stuck on having a 360 in my engine bay in pre smog dress! My J is going back to its muscle car roots! Its as small as an A body, weighs a tad more so the thing should go good! Just need to sort my TQ converter, any one know where you can get a lock up stall converter for a 904 trans?

    I feel sorry for you guys who are still strangled by emissions rules, I am strangle by distance and expensive freight costs! Can't win em all :)

    See You
    Bruce
     
  12. kkritsilas

    kkritsilas Well-Known Member

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    PCV is sort of an emissions thing, but sort of not. It actually does as the name implies, it takes any gasses that build up on the crankcase and brings them up to the heads to be burned off. The gasses in the crankcase have to be released somewhere even in cars the don't have PCV valves. In those cases, the gasses were vented out to the atmosphere through a hose that hung down a little below the bottom of the oil pan, taking advantage of the air flow to draw out the crankcase fumes.

    I don't now that I have ever really heard of a PCV system actually having an adverse effect on performance on a street engine.In fact, it will be neutral, as it does have the effect of eliminating one source of contaminants of engine oil, preventing dilution. Venting to the outside will have the same effect. With a PCV valve type system, at least you don't end up breathing in the fumes from the crankcase.
     
  13. Bruceynz

    Bruceynz Well-Known Member

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    I dunno if PCV is what you would call harsh emissions control but it was the start, see below cut and paste from wiki.

    In 1952, Professor A. J. Haagen-Smit, of the California Institute of Technology at Pasadena, postulated that unburned hydrocarbons were a primary constituent of smog, and that gasoline powered automobiles were a major source of those hydrocarbons. After some investigation by the GM Research Laboratory (led by Dr. Lloyd L. Withrow), it was discovered in 1958 that the road draft tube was a major source—about half—of the hydrocarbons coming from the automobile. The PCV system thus became the first real vehicle emissions control device.
     
  14. Cordoba1

    Cordoba1 Well-Known Member

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    In this thread, this caught my eye: Your Mechanic friend is wrong about where to hook up the advance line. Your distributor requires ported (or timed) vacuum. If you connect to any other source, you're getting full vacuum advance at idle, exactly what you don't want! If it's running okay, then maybe not mess with it; but your timing curves are surely off with this setup. You might be able to extract a little more drivability, a little more performance, and a little more fuel economy if you get it hooked up correctly. I have a feeling your timing might be running a bit too late if you have it setup with full vacuum at idle.
     
  15. Bruceynz

    Bruceynz Well-Known Member

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    Hello,

    Ok I am no expert here, my mechanic is in his mid 50s, he is known to be one of the best V8 mechanics in my city, I called Ford one day about a V8 engine and guess what, they referred me to my friend for the answer! Hows that a dealership didn't know the answer and had to refer it to the local expert. Anyway he played with the car and tuned the carb for me, and mucked around with the vac advance deciding at idle it was better to hook it to full vacuum, he said if it surges going down the road will have to go back to the timed port. But haven't had any problems, I don't know here you may know but I suspect that there isn't enough vacuum off the timed port to operate the vac advance at all at idle, When driving down the road at cruise the timed port sees the full manifold vacuum I thought. I can tell you this at idle with vac advance hooked up it has smoothed the idle out a bit. Your thoughts?

    Thanks
    Bruce
     
  16. Cordoba1

    Cordoba1 Well-Known Member

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    What you said above about the ported vacuum above is exactly right: Not enough vacuum to advance the timing idle. You don't want advance during idle, so that is exactly what it /should/ be doing. With you're current setup, you're getting FULL advance at idle. As I said, if it is running okay, it might be best to leave it alone.. But you could try putting installing the hose on the correct port. Your idle speed will drop because the timing is too late. Advance the timing to spec, and your idle will re-smooth out. Your best bet is to follow the timing instructions in service manual. My instructions here are way incomplete... But I know that full vacuum on the distributor is not correct. That's why people go out of their way to get new carbs when completing a lean-burn delete project.
     
  17. Aspen500

    Aspen500 Well-Known Member

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    Ford's did have manifold vacuum to the distributor at one time but they were designed to run that way.

    The PCV system will not cause any performance gain/loss. The road draft tubes didn't really work all that well and didn't work at all at idle or low speeds. Besides, with the PCV system there's MUCH less chance of dirt entering the crankcase through the breather system. The inlet side must always be either through a filter on the cover or draw air from the clean side of the engine air filter.

    To be honest, an EGR system doesn't hurt performance either (nor does air injection). It's only functional at cruise. During acceleration the vacuum is lower than what's required to open the valve so it isn't doing anything. This applies to "our cars" of the late '70's and early '80's. Later systems are of course controlled electronically but still function basically the same.
     
  18. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    The PCV system, I feel, is more beneficial than harmful (and not even taking emissions into account).
    Keeping the crankcase in a vacuum – prevents a lot of oil leaks – just think about it for a moment.
    Most carburetors are jetted to use a PCV valve system – which is something to keep in mind.

    Also any unburnt vapors (doesn’t matter what vapors are from) get burnt – so I say a win/win item.
    And, if you ever traveled behind a car with a draft tube – man do they stink.

    I’ve seen some cars hook up an aspirator valve to the headers and use exhaust to suck the vapors out of the crank case. Same thing applies but with more unsightly tubing.


    The EGR I have mixed opinions on. Getting rid of it makes the engine easier to work on and reduces the cutter a ton.
    Going through the trouble to get rid of it – I’m not sure, unless you are doing major changes.
    When an EGR valve gets stuck open is when it starts to cause problems.

    The Lean Burn controls the EGR system (not in all cases) and air pump so if ditching it, you can probably ditch the other two.

    If ditching the catalytic converters, like I will be doing soon, then ditching the air pump might not be a bad idea. Note: my air pump has been off of car for many a year. It locked up, got removed and never replaced.
     
  19. Bruceynz

    Bruceynz Well-Known Member

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    Ok, here is my engine bay, note the chrome things on the valve covers, they are K&N breathers, sounds like I should get rid of them and fit a PCV valve??

    360.jpg

    62-1519.jpg
     
  20. kkritsilas

    kkritsilas Well-Known Member

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    You need one breather on each side. You should be able to get by with one PCV valve. One valve cover has a a breather and the PCV valve, the other has an oil fill cap and a breather. That's how I think it goes, anyway.