If you were trying to budget, what would you buy from Firmfeel for your car?

[greymouser7]

To drive it like you stole it, beat the hell out of it?
I already have poly urethane bushings, 5 leaf leafsprings, stock shocks.

 

[kkritsilas]

Not necessarily from Firm Feel, but the bigger diameter tie rods (11/16" vs. 9/16"), preferably with the full tie rod adjusting sleeves that were posted a few weeks ago. Nothing against Firm Feel; just that they are available cheaper elsewhere.

From Firm Feel, the reinforced lower control arms, or the plates to reinforce your own control arms. Tubular upper control arms. Fast ratio Pittman and idler arms. Firmer steering box. For street driving, I don't know if you would need torque boxes or a reinforced K frame. It is unclear if you mean that you have poly bushings for the suspension or the K frame mounts. You can use the Firm Feel K frame aluminium K frame mounts. Poly suspension bushings you can get from Espo/Springs and Things, as well as Firm Feel.

This is in addition to caliper mounts from Dr. Diff that would allow the use of 11.75" front rotors, properly repacked wheel bearings, good shocks, and a good wheel alignment.

 

[BudW]

If you have a leaking and/or loose steering gear – I highly recommend TTI’s steering gear.

They might be one of the few people with front and rear sway bars available for our cars (doesn’t make any sense to install a rear sway bar without a bigger one to be put in front).

The LCA (Lower Control Arm) reinforcement plates can be purchased elsewhere (actually, I think someone else makes them) – and would be good if you plan on rebuilding your existing arms.


Note: I highly recommend Poly sway bar bushings.
That said, I DO NOT recommend Poly LCA or UCA (Upper Control Arm) to frame/chassis bushings for cars that are to be driven on streets much.
You will feel every squashed ant, every piece of thread, and every leaf you drive over – in your kidneys (not counting the bigger items like small pebbles or cigar butts - or heavens forbid, potholes) . It can make a short trip very painful – especially for older guys like myself (if you want to call 51, old).
So Poly everything suspension – except leave the LCA and UCA bushings rubber – your chiropractor will thank you . . . or maybe not.
Just replacing the 40 year old rubber – can do wonders.

Going to be twisting the roads a lot – then get sub-frame connectors and poly or aluminum K-frame mounts.

Getting rid of the Iso-clamp leaf spring “rubber” makes a big difference (either with Poly inserts or getting rid of Iso-claims altogether).

I plan on leaving rubber leaf spring bushings (front and rear), but replacing with new – when I get around to it. The front Oval bushings can be firmed up by sticking metal studs into the two open bushing holes.

Summary: new bushings, replace anything worn (tie rods ends, ball joints, etc.) and front /rear sway bars will make the biggest difference. The rest will improve on top of that.
BudW

Edit: if you do decide to go Poly for your LCA and UCA bushings – I highly recommend you purchase a spare set of control arms – so you can more easily swap them out – if you don’t like them.
It’s your kidneys and spine – not mine.

 

[greymouser7]

I bought the torque boxes long ago, but lost the info on how/where to install them.

Earlier this afternoon i had to reprogram a laptop that crashed for work so I was just reading here, fabo, and firmfeel-
I am going to get the lower control arm plates like you said, and just weld them, the tubular arms with otherstuff adds up quickly- i saw that they had a triangle reinforcement plate as well-am considering just welding triangle support onto the stock upper arms, i have the poly urethane k frame pucks installed-am gonna stick with them, i have all the poly bushings for the rest of the suspension, i like the fast ratio pitman arms but man does the $bread$ add up quickly

i bought the addco (front & back)sway bars but I think Rich kept the mounting brackets cause i cannot find them anywhere,
can i get C-body spindles and calpers to run 11.75" brakes?

 

[greymouser7]

budw i don't have the iso clamp stuff any more-you posted right before me, i need a sec to read your post

 

[greymouser7]

"o Poly everything suspension – except leave the LCA and UCA bushings rubber – your chiropractor will thank you . . . or maybe not.
Just replacing the 40 year old rubber – can do wonders."
-THANKS FOR THIS INPUT!
thanks to all you guys

 

[BudW]

No. C-body spindles and brake caliper brackets won’t fit (already tried).


Just need later B-body caliper brackets and brake rotors.

They make two different kinds of brackets: Slider type (which will use your existing brake calipers, hoses and pads) and pin type. Pin type requires new calipers, pads and you will need to find a way to make brake hoses fit (can be done with some trial and error (and $).


I have a set of 11¾” slider type brake caliper brackets for sale. Just bolt them on with a new set of rotors, and presto, it’s done. If interested, send me a PM on the brackets.

Now, the C-body brake caliper to spindle bolts are needed – so if you have access to C-body parts – those bolts are nice to have.
BudW

 

[BudW]

i bought the addco (front & back)sway bars but I think Rich kept the mounting brackets cause i cannot find them anywhere,

If you can take a picture of the sway bar(s) and what parts you have – I can tell if you have what you need.

 

[greymouser7]

No. C-body spindles and brake caliper brackets won’t fit (already tried).


Just need later B-body caliper brackets and brake rotors.

They make two different kinds of brackets: Slider type (which will use your existing brake calipers, hoses and pads) and pin type. Pin type requires new calipers, pads and you will need to find a way to make brake hoses fit (can be done with some trial and error (and $).


I have a set of 11¾” slider type brake caliper brackets for sale. Just bolt them on with a new set of rotors, and presto, it’s done. If interested, send me a PM on the brackets.

Now, the C-body brake caliper to spindle bolts are needed – so if you have access to C-body parts – those bolts are nice to have.
BudW

-thanks for all your support bud-
i have overnight duty tomorrow, so i can send you pictures on thursday, am very interested i the sliding caliper brackets,
i do have the brake spindles off of 73/74 road runner-but was hoping for the biggest disc brakes i can fit with 15" rims, was even willing to buy EBC pads and rotors on top of whatever i end up with
do you order c body rotors & pads? or is this b body? didn't the r body st regis cop cars have ridiculously big brakes?
did the C bodies ever have rear disk brakes?

 

[BudW]

I bought the torque boxes long ago, but lost the info on how/where to install them.

I purchased a set of sub-frame brackets and torque boxes from Safe-T-Cap a couple of years ago, and not installed them yet.
https://www.autorust.com/product-category/mopar/mopar-fjm-body/
ART-020 and ART-08889
Instructions are on their web site.

I need to get another set, and find a person who can weld . . .
BudW

 

[BudW]

There is very little from a C-body that can fit on an FMJ.
B and R-bodies are a different story.

’73-74 B-body spindles are the same exact ones on your FMJ (You have a M-body, I think) – and they use the same 11” brake rotor as your M-body currently has.
’75-79 B-bodies (and ’79-81 R-body) use the bigger brake rotor (regular or police).
That said, those '73-4 spindles are good to have, as spares.

’74 (or ’75 I can't remember what exact year) Imperial had rear disk brakes, on a 9¼” differential. Parts for that car (like brake rotors) are getting extremely hard to find (and costly). Overall, they are not worth to convert to.

Rear disk brakes, for most people, are not worth to convert to for FMJ's – unless you get like a Jeep differential (with them already attached to it) – for the money invested is not always the performance you get out of it.

Converting to 11¾” front and 11” rear drum brakes is the most cost effective change you can make to brakes. The rest start to go way up, in costs. (In My Opinion)
BudW


Edit: I have no experience with EBC brakes, yet, and have been eyeballing their stuff lately. Their stuff appears to be what we need.

 

[kkritsilas]

The 11.75" caliper brackets bolt into place of the existing 10.875" brackets. Then you need to get 11.75" rotors (heavy duty, police, or late big block B body ('78 Cordoba or Magnum 400 cars)). Pads stay the same, calipers are the same, spindles are the same. You probably want to look at the wheel bearings while you are changing things over (you're there anyway). Pad choice and rotor are up to you and your wallet (EBC is very good, but don't go crazy with super hard racing pad material). I personally don't favour slotted rotors. but do like (properly) drilled rotors. To each their own.

 

[BudW]

(EBC is very good, but don't go crazy with super hard racing pad material

I would agree with that.

The slots and holes are to help with heat removal.
Braking, creates a lot of heat, just in the nature of how it does things.

I have heard from some racers that groves (slots) and holes are the best thing ever.
From other racers that they want as much friction on iron (or fill in the blank of material used) as they can get (ie: no holes or slots) more air flow through the cooling fins to remove said heat.

I don’t have an answer on slots (groves) or holes – other than that.


I do like to drive cars hard and have been known to drive in the mountains where there are several 15 MPH (hairpin) turns right after each other – and had experienced brake fade (brakes hot enough to boil the brake fluid) only a few times.


I do recommend removing the brake rotor dust shied to help with air flow (if plans on driving hard) – with a couple of concerns on doing so.
One is do not drive “hot” brakes through a water puddle – or you have a strong likelihood of warping the brake rotors (always good idea for anyone).
The other is one might put some kind of a shield around the outer tie rod boot (towards the rotor), like Chrysler part number 4656672AA, to prevent heat damage to the boot. There is not much too it and a person could make one themselves with some thin steel plate and tin snips.

I have a few at home – but not sure they are hiding at (for a picture).

The brake rotor creates "cooling" air flow using centrifical force. Incoming air has to go between the existing dust shield and the hot brake rotor. By removing the existing dust shield, a lot more air flow can be accessed to cool the brake rotor – and according to one race friend, thereby one doesn’t need holes or slots.

With no testing data – I will leave my friend’s thoughts – as is – but more air flow and more pad to rotor surface area, does sound more logical.
BudW

 

[kkritsilas]

Drilled rotors are supposed to have better cooling. The slots are designed to allow gasses from the pads a place to go so that they don't build up between the pad and the rotor.

For me, the slots are a real reach. I can see the airflow advantages of holes, however I don't subscribe to the pads gassing out at less than full out racing speeds. The question in my mind is "Where are these gasses coming from?" If its from the pads, then the pads are already cooked in that the binder in the pads has already gone over the temperature at which is is breaking down. Slots are going to help that. On the other hand, the edges of the slots will substantially reduce pad life. Most slots are pretty sharp edged on the surfaces that the pads meet, so I think there is a scraping action going on, and this is happening whether the brakes are being used hard or not.

I have also seen drilled rotors without chamfers on the holes, and inevitably, the rotors will crack.

 

[Rattle Trap]

The larger rotors still use the same calipers and pads. The added mass that may help with fading in a track situation also comes with the penalty of added unsprung weight and possibility that even certain 15" rims may not mount over those calipers being further out from center. If buying pads from the usual local sources check what you're getting. I ordered a set of normal and a set of police pads. It certainly appeared that the only thing different was the cost of the box they came in. I think the "normal" pads have been discontinued and just come in a cheaper box now.
There's is a Low Budget thing you can do which certainly adds benefit. Use the 74-79 B-body, 79-81 R, spindle mounted steering arms. They're slightly shorter than F,M, arms. Reducing length of the work end of the lever gives you quick ratio steering the same way that lengthening the force end does. So don't spend the money on longer quick ratio pitman and idler arms. Just get shorter steering arms dirt cheap from a B-body. One of the guys on AnV did the math on the difference of length a couple years ago and found it to be a stock parts method for achieving the same result of 14.3-1 instead of 16-1 ratio.

 

[kkritsilas]

The 11.75" rotors do clear all of the factory wheels, steel or alloy. If there are 15" wheels that do not clear the 11.75" rotors, it is the wheel at fault. The added mass of the rotors is not what will improve braking; it is the added leverage of the caliper being further away from the wheel center. Most of the fade resistance would come from cross drilled rotors, not added mass of the rotors.

The un-sprung weight issue is correct, but not likely to be of much significance on a street driven car. I can see it as being of importance in a race/competition car. Also, if the car has steel wheels with the 10.875" rotors, going to a lighter alloy wheel (even the factory alloys would be fine) will eliminate all or at least the vast majority of the unsprung weight difference between steel +10.875" rotors vs.alloy wheels +11.75" rotors.

 

[4speedjim]

4WIW & IMO Bud is one straight up encyclopedia on stock & modded mopars. He helped me several times and hooked me up with needed parts and advice on my 11.75 brake upgrade. IIRC from my upgrade, all 59-89 rwd cars & D150, B150 B250s use the same Ft wheel bearings and races @$30. I ordered my rotors, Interchange #5315 from Ebay @ $64 for the pair delivered. Use #5315 to cross reference your vented 11.75" 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern rotors.