Interior Woes and Exterior Blight

[JLN5thAve]

Ok - the Pearl is running like a champ.. Gas gauge seems to be fixing itself, and I am working on using steel putty to repair a leak in my gas tank... (Kids+Scooter=OOPS) The Pearl is going strong..

However -

The exterior paint is all but blowing away. There is tons of oxidation, and even spots that mud (my kiddos and a water hose - oi) left on it after washing it off. The spots. Are. Still. Visible. Anywho a price check I caught through a family connection is $800 for 1 coat primer, paint, and clearcoat... Yikes.

I have been looking over JustWondering's posts regarding the vinyl, (which is falling apart in spots) and the headliner.. WOW - and so I am curious about a few things.

1. Is there any way I can try to refresh the current paint? Buffers, super wax, or something?
2. Would a silver spray on bedliner work to cover up the vinyl top to prevent further damage?
3. The interior is falling apart, as seen in the pics - is there anyway I can stop-gap the situation till I can figure out how to recover the insides?

I am not going to lie - I am looking for any tricks or cheats to limp it through without there being more damage done to the vanity parts of the Pearl.

Another side not - the front pillars I literally peeled the fabric off of - on accident.. and it is bare. Not pictured.

 

[old yellow 78]

A dilemma, but an interesting one. Remember, this is actually part of the fun of restoring an old car. Actually, I think $800 for paint sounds like a bargain. But, you might try to rethink the entire situation. If it is just the paint that is bad, and no real rust to speak of, you might try to just buff and wax it as it is. The "survivor look" has become a popular option recently, and is certainly cheaper than new paint, whatever the price. I think unrestored cars are just as interesting as the high dollar restorations. I have been going back and forth on whether I want to have OY repainted, or just try to buff and wax the flawed paint that is on it - at least for the time being. At this point, I'm leaning towards the latter. I like the fact that it is a survivor.
I don't have any real suggestions for the vinyl top, but somebody here might. I wouldn't be quick to remove it, because that would open up all sorts of difficulty in dealing with the fiberglass cap and the window seams, etc.
I'm also not sure what to suggest as far as the interior. My situation with OY was different, as the headliner is hardboard, and is in great shape fortunately. The front seat however was ruined by the reportedly hefty old gal who originally owned OY. I didn't like the basic bench seat standard interior anyway, so I looked for a long time and finally found a parts car in Oklahoma with the upgraded Highlander Plaid interior in good shape. I bought the car sight unseen, drove from Pennsylvania to Oklahoma to strip the interior and everything else I wanted from it, and left the carcass for the seller to scrap - which gave him even more $$ and made him happy. Sort of an ordeal, and not cheap, but I got a really nice upgraded interior and had an adventure getting it.
You might want to look for a parts Fifth Ave or New Yorker with a good interior and swap it out. Always good to have extra parts for these old FMJ's which are only getting harder to find. There was one a while back for sale on this site that had a good interior and was being sold for parts.
FOR SALE - Parting Out 1982 New Yorker
If you keep looking, you will find something.
In the meantime, I wonder if you were to use some sort of adhesive that could just soak through the thin fabric and reattach to the hardboard headliner and then dry, if that might work. If you tear off the fabric, you might wind up with a never-ending "snowstorm" of dried foam falling down.
OY was a desert car, so the dash pad was really cracked at one time, but the prior owner did quite a nice job of cutting away the raised portion around the cracks, filling it with (? - putty?) and repainting it. Not perfect, but quite nice and lasted for a few years. I have another good one to replace it when I have time to get back to it, but it worked fine meanwhile.
Anything you do will likely make it better than it is. It doesn't have to be perfect. Too many people get caught up in "restoration" rather than having fun and getting an old car back on the road - which is where the old car hobby started in the first place.
So, be creative and have fun, and keep posting those pics.

 

[JLN5thAve]

Thankfully I am lucky that the Pearl is a desert car.. Very little rust and no erosion of the frame etc so far that I can tell.

The soaking through of fabric glue is an interesting idea to say the least. I may attempt that towards the back where you can see in the pic the liner fabric is just dangling there.

Attempting to restore the car to its original look - colors and etc seems like it will be a little more difficult than I thought. Finding an almost exact duplicate of my car will be a little bit more luck than anything, especially on a budget of moths.

I was lucky enough to find this on YouTube for a possible paint fix.. But mine is really bad - not sure if this will work.. and shade? HA

 

[79blueghost]

the interior is a little easier than you may think the whole interior is covered in headliner material. You can go to any fabric shop and get it cheap. two cans of contact glue spray and a few hours of disassembly, pull old fabric off, stiff brush to get old foam off hard broad and your in business. Spray the whole top after you have cleaned the pieces.' make sure that have gotten all the foam off all area's of the pieces, spray them also, let them tact up, spray head liner material let tact up and fold in half foam side out long ways on hard broad long ways, press on and spread as you unfold. it won't take long you have a new upper interior.

 

[Oldiron440]

Yep you can go krazy with pazly!

 

[kkritsilas]

I don't know 5th Aves. very well, but I need to ask if the 5th Aves. actually have a base coat/clear coat or just the acrylic enamel single stage like my 1981 Mirada/1980 Cordoba?

If ti is base coat/clear coat, follow the video you posted (it is covering clear coat failure, from the picture)

If it is single stage acrylic enamel, then you may want to try the following:

1. Wash the car really well, using an aggressive soap (see dish soap). Normally, this is not acceptable, due to its stripping of any existing wax/sealant, and its not being pH balanced, but this really isn't very important at this point. You just want to get the paint as clean as possible for the following steps.

2. Go to a detailing shop, or order online, an iron remover (Carpro Iron X or equivalent). Apply at the strongest recommended dilution, and wash off/remove. Follow the directions on the container exactly. Do NOT use in a confined area, the fumes are bad enough in open areas.

3. Go get a compound (suggest Meguiar's Ultimate Compound (available just about everywhere) or other compound of your choice, there is nothing critical here) and find a DA polisher. If you haven't machine polished before, DO NOT USE A ROTARY POLISHER. Get a supply of 6-8 medium ct pads. Get Cheap pads, as yo will NOT be reusing these again. I hear Harbor Freight has cheap pads that are not worth reusing, but should do for this purpose.. Compournd out the car with the machines polisher, changing pads out every few panels (suggest 1 pad for hood/roof/trunk lid horizontal surfaces, ore for each side. one for back, and maybe one for the front of the car). You may need more pads if the oxidation is very deep. You should have an idea after this step if the paint is worth trying to save.

3. Follow with a polish (Meguiar's Ultimate Polish or equivalent), using polishing pads. You may want to try to get a higher quality pad than the Harbor Freight, as the oxidation should be almost completely gone by now. Polish out the car, and then inspect.

The idea for a single stage if to get it clean (ie. no dirt or dust which is why we use dish soap, as it cleans far better than most car soaps), remove iron particles that would tear up the compounding/polishing pads, and then compound/polish the paint to get to the point that you can actually assess the state of the paint. Right now, you are seeing a lot of the surface contaminants/defects that is hiding the true state of the paint. I went through essentially this process with my red 1981 Mirada, which was a single state acrylic enamel, but did it by hand, and used Meguitar's Mirror Glaze #02 and #09. When I got the car, the horizontal surfaces were covered in black spots. Not dark brown, black. I originally thought that they were rust spots poking through. Turns out they were dust/mud. When I washed the car with dish soap, the black spots were gone, but now, beneath where the dust spots were, were paint spots that were a a darker red, and that got me to thinking that the car wasn't the orangey red that it looked to be, but a real red, so I started to compound out the car with the Meguiar's #02. The oxidation came off, turning the cloths I was suing red in the process. But eventually, the entire cars was done, and was a lot brighter, smoother, and glossier than I would have expected.

Single stage paints are thicker than the two stage paints, and the colour and weather resistance are present throught the paint thickness, unlike clear coat/base coat, where the weather resistance is from the clear clat, and the colour is from the base coat. This allows for removal of the oxidation from a single coat, yet the paint will retain it clolor and weather resistance.

 

[Justwondering]

repairing the headliner....
Option 1: remove headliner
Go buy new material, contact cement, and recover.
Bad news is you a have to remove a pillars, b pillars and at least loosen the rear opera window inserts and rear insert. Mark the base on your windshield visor with tape so you know which side goes to the front. It is a triangle base, but all sides are not equal. There is a right way to put it in and 2 wrong ways.

Option 2: temporarily reattach in place.
DO NOT go get a can of contact cement and just dab it on. It will adhere back in place but it will look worse than crap. You might be able to do it if you also invested in fabric paint and painted the fabric after the cement dried. Otherwise, you have an 'orange worm' of glue that bleeds through and turns dirty orange with oxidation and dirt (ask me how I know).

I would try using a spray can of adhesive and a long straw (like on a can of wd 40). Poke a hold in the material and spray in some adhesive in a fan pattern. Wait for it to get tacky and then smooth it on with your hand.
Bad side would be that the foam is really dry rotted and it still won't stick.
Good side would be you don't have to remove the headliner.

OPTION 3
You could get 1/4 inch staples and use a repeat pattern of 4 inch offset on each row and 'quilt' the top back into place to the head liner with a staple gun.
x x x
x x
x x x
You get the idea.

Staples would eventually back out but you could milk it a little longer.

JW

 

[kkritsilas]

Sorry, should have put this into my original post.

The alternative, in either case of it being a clear coat/base coat, or single stage (acrylic enamel) is to get a professional detailer assess, and possibly do all of the paint rejuvenation if possible. I did that, and was not confident in the answers that I got (all of them seemed unfamiliar with acrylic enamel paint; i.e. didn't understand paint that wasn't clear coat/base coat). if you have somebody who does, it is another way of really getting to the decision point quicker.

Also the recommendation for use a machine polisher is from my experience. It took about 3 days to compound, and polish the entire car by hand (and my car had the fake vinyl roof option that was standard on the CMXes of the day). Compounding the car was the majority of it. Because it was spread over a few days, I ended up washing the car 3 times. if you use a machine polisher, you can probably get it done in a day, and only wash the car once, or maybe twice (if you want to wash it after polishing). My arms felt useless for a day after I had completed the paint rejuvenation. The colour really was much nicer, and the car looked like it was only about 10-12 years old. vs. the true 35 years of age that it was.

 

[old yellow 78]

You could get 1/4 inch staples and use a repeat pattern

Lol. It does work. My friend has a '93 Dodge Ram 150 with that thin headliner covering which is falling down. Not particularly caring what it looks like, he just took thumbtacks and tacked it back up. Not pretty, but it works.

 

[GregG48213]

You could get 1/4 inch staples and use a repeat pattern

I did this method on my Diplomat, although I ran the staples through strips of electrical tape. It looked rather funky, but it held the headliner in place for several years.

 

[BudW]

I don’t know about paint on an ’88.
I looked at my ’86 FSM and it shows all nine different M-body exterior paint colors (Gunmetal Blue, Radiant Silver, Gold Dust, Crimson Red, Night Watch Blue. Mink Brown, Ice Blue, White and Black) are all clear coated.
I would guess the ‘88’s would be the same.

With that said, I’m not a paint expert – so don’t take my word on this. I believe your clear coat has failed and there might not be an easy fix.
If it was a single-stage color that has faded, then the there are many options available to you.
Clear coated paint, for what I’m told, is a whole ‘nutter matter - so I recommend talking to a body shop/paint expert.

To be honest, there are a couple spots on my ’86 Fifth Ave, where I also have clear coat failure . . . and its spreading fast.



My interior on my ’86 Fifth Ave was looking good when I got the car (15? Years ago).
A few years ago – it looked worse than your pictures were. I have the A, B & C pillar trim removed, headliner and all of the package tray area trim removed (and taking up valuable space in my garage) – and have been driving car that way for some time, now.
I had an issue shortly after headliner removal, on my car. First, it is difficult enough to remove on from a 4-door sedan, without tearing it. Having a helper makes work SO MUCH EASIER! Shortly after removing my headliner (5 or maybe 10 years ago), I laid it on the hood of my car, so I could figure out where to store it at. Shortly after I started to scratch my hairy chin, a gust of wind came up (this was outside, at the time) and the headliner took off like a scalded dog. I would catch it, and wind blows it some more. I ended up with 5 pieces of headliner (out of 6) once this crazy ordeal was complete. I’m just glad no one was filming this (. . . I hope).

Last year, I found a “recently recovered” red headliner as well as A, B & C pillars at a local pull-a-part – and was able to get them home intact. Also got them in a secure location in my garage – until ready to work on this project. My car is charcoal grey with grey interior – so the bright red will clash, somewhat. I also still have the 5/6ths of the other headliner (in pieces) as well.
My wife was discussing about getting fabric and recovering the headliner in her '02 Minivan (which looks to be about a mile long) – along with the Fifth Ave's headliner and other parts – maybe even making it a family project. That plan might have taken a detour, sense a couple of days ago, she got rear-ended in her van, and I suspect the van might be totaled. With her not excited to help doing this now, I have a feeling it is back to me doing it by myself (so much for getting a good plan started).

Note: before placing headliner back into my car along with all the freshly recovered trim pieces, I have plans on stuffing noise/temp pads/mats everywhere inside of the car, behind the trim. Also, inside of doors, etc., when I get to those areas.
BudW

 

[kkritsilas]

The test for a single stage paint is easy: wash a small spot, then use a cloth with a dab of compound, and rub on the washed spot. If colour comes off, it is single stage. No colour means clear coat, therefore 2 stage (clear coat/basecoat). Try to test on a spot that doesn't have any obvious defects, as was shown in the Youtube video lead picture (the guy in the video is obviously playing for laughs) previously posted. You don't want to mistake the lower colour coat for single stage. That would lead you to polish off the remaining clear coat, leaving the basecoat with no protection.

Believe or not, some specific new cars are still painted with single coat. There are others that are using a lightly tinted clear coat over a colour coat.

 

[kkritsilas]

Like I said, I don't know much about the 5th Aves (of any year). My J bodies (1981 Mirada CMX in red with a white vinyl roof, a 1983 base Mirada in nightwatch blue, and my 1980 Cordoba Crown in Heather Gray Metallic with a white or cashmere half vinyl roof) were/are all single stage. I never tried to do anything with the Cordoba, as it is sunburned so bad that it is down to the primer in some spots, so compounding/polishing it would have been counter productive. The 1983 Mirada was sold. The process I went through with the 1981 Mirada CMX was in my earlier posts (#6 and #8).