Manual to power steering conversion

[old yellow 78]

Finally getting around to doing some work on OY! One of the things that I want to do is to add power steering. I think it would be much nicer to drive around as a cruiser with power steering instead of wrestling with the manual. I already have the entire power steering setup from the yellow Aspen parts wagon I stripped in VA.
What do I need to know/remember to make this go well? I know that I will need a new pitman arm. I have the pulley for the belt and the mounting brackets along with the pump and steering box. I think the steering shaft has to be shortened, but i seem to remember that it doesn't need to be cut, just pushed further into the steering box. Is that true, or was I dreaming? Should I flush the box and pump, or just leave it alone? Now if I can just find one of these SE steering wheels...

 

[Aspen500]

If you've got all the pieces it's pretty much a bolt on affair. The steering shaft can be slid up to be shorter. If the nylon pins are intact it'll take some sharp knocks to make it move. Downside to it is, the collapsible column won't collapse much anymore but if you hit something hard enough to shove the column back, the wheel smashing your chest will be the least of the problems most likely.

If the fluid looked OK in the donor, leave it be. Just a suggestion: Would be a good idea to replace the high pressure line and also the return hose at the same time.

I remember back in the early '80's when I converted my Barracuda from manual to power. Even though I was 18 years old (was I ever that young? lol) the car went from being a PITA to drive to darn nice. Ever try to wrestle manual steering with 60 series bias plies and at the same time shift gears?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,as I said, PITA (Pain In The Arms)

 

[old yellow 78]

Thanks much Aspen 500! I thought I had heard that the steering column could just be moved up or down somehow. I've seen the red nylon pins on the shaft, but didn't realize I would have to break them. Great idea to replace the hoses too at the same time. I think I'll leave the fluid alone, looks ok, and don't want to make any problems.
I had successfully converted my first F, a '76 Volare Premere wagon, from manual to power way back in the late seventies, but it was so long ago, I don't remember much about how I did it. I do remember that my father made a bracket to attach the pump to the block because for some reason I didn't have the bracket from the donor car. Made a world of difference with that wagon, so I'm looking forward to this!
Here are a few more pics of the donor wagon that I stripped and got the power steering setup out of.

 

[old yellow 78]

Ever try to wrestle manual steering with 60 series bias plies and at the same time shift gears?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,as I said, PITA (Pain In The Arms)

60 series bias ply tires AND manual steering?! And I thought I was building up biceps! Must have been fun trying to parallel park on a busy street!!

 

[Aspen500]

60 series bias ply tires AND manual steering?! And I thought I was building up biceps! Must have been fun trying to parallel park on a busy street!!

Never needed to parallel park it really. About the only place you'd need to was (and is) downtown.
Better was my buddies '70 Challenger RT/SE with 60 series bias plies, 4-speed, bigblock AND a Tuff wheel. Yikes. It was literally impossible to turn the wheels sitting still. My Barracuda had the gigantic wheel and a small block so it wasn't AS bad, lol! It's much easier at 18 years old than it would be at 52.

 

[Darth-Car]

That wagon with no doors makes me feel like we are back on Fantasy Island.

 

[Aspen500]

Boss,,,,, zee plane, zee plane! lol

 

[old yellow 78]

That wagon with no doors makes me feel like we are back on Fantasy Island.

Yep, I took everything I could fit into my truck. Had to leave the hood which was a shame because it was in good shape. I didn't need the doors and hatch, and most of the other stuff I took, but you never know, and trying to find Aspens/Volares in salvage yards is close to impossible. I would have liked to have brought the entire car home, but didn't want to have it sitting around. The wagon was hauled off and crushed not long after.

 

[old yellow 78]

My truck stuffed with F wagon goodies! The seller and his wife standing by thinking: "this guy is nuts!"

 

[BudW]

I would look for a power steering steering column – instead of modifying your original column.

There may be some people out there willing to trade a power system for a manual system (racers maybe?).

I thought the splines were smaller on manual gears (not 100% sure).

BudW

 

[80mirada]

Shorten the shaft between the column and the steering box

 

[old yellow 78]

Ok, so it's almost a year later, and I still haven't done the power steering conversion. I am working constantly; on my "time off" trying to get the flip house done by July (hopefully?) to put it on the market for summer, and then I'm also putting in more than 40 hours per week at my regular job. At work, I'm trying to learn a completely new, very complicated computer documentation program, which requires me to bring work home too because there is such a steep learning curve. What a PIA!
I finally did pull OY out for a quick drive last Sunday, (only about 2 miles), and it was really frustrating to still have to wrestle with the manual steering. It's bad enough seeing my plaid interior and all my other collected goodies just sitting around waiting to be installed, I just want to get SOMETHING done on it!
Anyway, I am completely disgusted with having NO time to spend on my favorite toy, OY. So, I have decided to have my neighbor, an 84 year old, very talented, former Buick mechanic put the power steering in for me. At least that will be DONE. I don't care if he does it or I do it. I just want it done! So, I got out my boxes of parts from the Virginia parts wagon that I stripped and got all the power steering parts out and ready. Then I realized something I hadn't thought of before. The parts wagon had A/C, and OY doesn't. So, it looks like the bracket that holds the power steering pump, is made larger to also hold the A/C compressor above it. With no A/C, it will look weird on OY. Hummmm. I'm wondering if the bracket could be modified somehow to be used just for the power steering pump. I highly doubt that I could find a non-A/C power steering bracket anywhere soon.
I do think I will have new pressure hoses put on the pump, but will probably try to use the manual steering column, just collapsed. Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.

 

[BudW]

Can’t go wrong with new hoses – but if old hoses were not leaking – I would use those for now, get new hoses and put them up for future need. Hoses for these cars are getting somewhat hard to find, but are out there.

The return hose is an odd size to find (11/32”) – but it is available on eBay.
5/16” is too small and 3/8” is way way too big to use (can’t get a hose clamp tight enough to get hose to seal. The hose is under low pressure, so with correct size hose and a couple of spring clips – is fine. Reusing the old hose is also fine.


I recommend using the current brackets for now, to get things going. Once that is done – then you have a template to either make or to find the correct bracket(s).

Also – there are three different A/C compressors used on /6’s, the RV2, C-171 and (I can’t remember the name right off – but an aftermarket one used for add-on A/C) – and all three compressor designs uses different brackets.
The RV2 and C-171 depends on what year car was made (’78 and ’79 was break year – depending on part supply. Sometimes it would go back and forth depending on the supply of C-171's on hand).

No A/C, P/S brackets are out there - but you will need to know what you need, to look for.


You are not going to get a no P/S steering column intermediate shaft to compress to fit a P/S gear. It is not going to happen without a torch. P/S intermediate shafts are about 3” shorter.

When I looked this up, just now, I learned two new things. It doesn’t appear P/S came with manual transmission (column shifted) F or M-bodies in ’77 or ’78. Also there are three different intermediate shafts in ’77-78, as well (I was expecting 2 different shafts).

These pictures are from my '78 parts manual. First two are column shifted manual transmission), Last two are everything else.

Manual transmission (column shift) and no P/S F-body 3748808 (no mention on length – but presumed to be 10½” long)
Auto transmission or floor shifted manual and no P/S F-body 3748648 10.51” long
Auto transmission or floor shifted manual and P/S F & M-body 3748649 7.38” long
Note: length would be from rag mount to center of pin (inside of slip coupling)

Now I have questions – which I can’t answer:
Why not manual transmission with P/S? I would prefer to have a manual transmission and P/S.
Why are manual transmission and automatic (both without P/S) shafts different?
Note: I don’t need an answer. Just something to ponder.

Unrelated, I’ve been told the steering gear spline diameter is different between manual and P/S gears – but that is not a big issue – since shaft lengths are different to begin with (if spline diameter difference applies). Item number 49 on first picture.


Two things I would do before gear install:
Install a new pittman shaft (manual gear arm has different spline diameter – so won’t fit). Most pittman arms are sealed (no way to grease them) and for all of the work to install one, I just wouldn’t use a used arm.

Purchase and install this kit (or one like it) into new coupler http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Mopar-Steering-Pot-Coupler-Repair-Kit-STOP-the-SLOP-W-Instructions-/222514825910?hash=item33ceeacab6:g:uzIAAOxy3NBSjucV
BudW

 

[Aspen500]

FYI, Carquest, NAPA, etc. carry the 11/32" p.s. return hose, in most cases.

 

[BudW]

The part stores by me, do not carry that size hose.

Chrysler PCV hose is also 11/32" - but a different kind of hose. It is also difficult to locate around here.

Maybe I need to make a visit to see Aspen500, and pickup some parts before the trip back home.
BudW


Edit: I checked my local parts stores again, and the carry 3/8” hose and say that will fit.
I say good luck with that (making 3/8" return hose fit without leaking).

 

[slantman]

Bud, thanks for your VERY expert measurements and comments as this is a project that I must complete or sell the wagon...BAD old shoulders!!! Just went to the shop and measured a PS box input shaft from a mid 80s M and it is the 7 in. size. will work on the four speed??? Now to find a slant pump and brackets!!! Fall project or in the for sale listing...

 

[old yellow 78]

Wow! Thank you very much, both BudW and Aspen500! Bud, your information is very appreciated. Although, I am not happy to hear that the current steering shaft won't be able to compress enough to use with the power steering box. It was so long ago now, but when I did this swap on my '76 Premier back in 1978, I don't remember switching out the steering shaft. I was going to take the entire steering column from the parts wagon, but decided not to, and now I am sorry I didn't. Damn! Maybe Deconstructor Jim might have one... Nuts. I was hoping to just switch it out and be done with it. Agh! I wonder if a shaft from an M might work, not that there are a ton of M's in any yards anymore either. At least my wagon is a four speed on the floor, so I don't have to worry about column shift complications.

 

[BudW]

Slantman, I used the factory measurements – but I do know that P/S gear boxes are about 3” (roughly) longer than manual gear boxes are.

It “appears” the 3-speed on the tree is what has the odd length intermediate shaft.
If you and Old Yellow 78 both have 4-speeds (which should be on the floor) and manual steering, then you are in better shape.

All you need is the Intermediate steering shaft from any P/S equipped Automatic or 4-speed F or M body. Not 100% sure about J-bodies, but they should be the same.
For P/S changeover, the steering column can remain in the car. I would remove the gear with intermediate shaft still attached (gives a little more to hang onto - the coupler, that is, not long shaft).

There are a lot of M-bodies still out there with the correct needed shorter intermediate shaft.
I have one spare, which I have already cleaned up, and have installed the rebuild kit (see post # 13) and is ready to install into my wagon.

As you can see, the one on my wagon – has seen better days.

The roll pin is, um, fun to tap out, because steering shaft wants to spin - so with one hand, you have to hold the steering shaft still, the next hand hold the punch still and with last hand, hold a small sledge (2 or 3 pounder) to tap the pin out.
Using the ignition lock, you can rotate steering wheel until it locks, when roll pin is in a good direction to punch.

Then to install, you need a 4th hand to hold the roll pin still to install it – but as a TIP, you can mount the shaft into a vice, and tap pin in about ¼” or so – before installing it on the car.

The intermediate shaft is splined so it will only go on steering gear one way.
I “think” the rag joint is also keyed – so it will only go on one way, as well – but (honestly) I don’t remember.

A new roll pin might be recommended to install. They are an odd size (5/16" x 1¼") but are available on eBay.
A 3/8” punch is too big and a ¼” punch is too small. I made my own punch by purchasing 5/16” x 2 foot long steel rod. I then cut off a 6” piece of a broken wooden hammer handle. Drilled a 5/16” hole in one end and tapped steel rod into the hole. It looks like an offset “T” – almost to an “L” – and it works wonders on those pins. Otherwise, you can’t get a hammer down in there – without hitting (other) things,

Note: finding a manual gear box intermediate shaft is a LOT more difficult (for those removing P/S) - so you might consider selling your old parts.
Manual gears fit a lot of Chrysler vehicles - but the intermediate shafts only fit FM (and maybe J) bodies.

Hope this helps.
BudW

 

[old yellow 78]

BudW, thanks again so much. Yes, OY (Old Yellow) is a slant six, four on the floor, so that is good news. I am at best, a shade tree mechanic, so your details above are extremely helpful. My neighbor called to say that I could bring OY over to his garage this weekend, and he will work on it while he is also working on an old DeSoto. So, I think I will discuss all of this with him, and if I have to search for an intermediate steering shaft, I think I will have him do some other things meanwhile that I have been waiting on, like ball joints, control arm bushings, etc. Here are a few pics of the steering parts that I took off the parts wagon. Notice the big ol A/C bracket:

 

[old yellow 78]

Well, some good news! I didn't even remember it, but I left the shorter steering shaft still attached to the power steering box from the parts wagon. I had forgotten all about it, and didn't even really look at it when I was getting the parts together. It is clear in the pics above. I also have the pitman arm from the parts wagon still on it. This is good news, but makes me think that I just have too much on my mind that it didn't even register with me. Now, I just need to find a non-A/C power steering box mounting bracket and it's ready to go!