Microsquirt EFI 318 Project

mchartier105

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Hey, just thought I'd make a thread to share my project which is going in my 1980 Volare Duster. I'm building this engine up as cheap as possible (under $1500 including microquirt which was $500) for fuel economy and plan to add new technology to it as well. So far its a magnum roller block with a double roller timing chain, closed chamber heads, electric fan and fuel pump and the stock aluminium EFI intake. I'm replacing the stock PCM and using a Microsquirt in its place to control the spark and fuel triggered with a GM 7 pin module and the lean burn distributer off of an old 318, getting rid of the stock magnum crank and cam sensors. I also plan to mill the heads and aim for about 10:1 or more compression and run methanol injection (triggered off the microsquirt) to still be able to run cheap pump gas without detonation. Also I plan to modify the heads to accept SBC stud mounted aluminium roller rockers and potentially add a new 5 speed transmission if money permits :) I'll be updating this thread as I progress.
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mchartier105

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Can you take a few more pictures of the FI setup, please?

What exactly do you want to see? Its basically just the stock magnum EFI intake with an aluminium plenum pan and stock injectors and fuel rails modified to have a return line and adjustable fuel pressure regulator on it, its not completely put together yet though.
 

BudW

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What exactly do you want to see? Its basically just the stock magnum EFI intake with an aluminium plenum pan and stock injectors and fuel rails modified to have a return line and adjustable fuel pressure regulator on it.
I must have missed the stock magnum FI setup. For some reason I was thinking Magnum head 4-bbl setup. My bad.
 

kkritsilas

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Post '91 Magnums are "improved" LA engines with factory fuel injection (most early Magnums had throttle body injection, later on port injection). Pre-1975 Magnums are high performance versions of the LA or B/RB engines, and yes, they almost always had a 4 barrel.
 

mchartier105

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Post '91 Magnums are "improved" LA engines with factory fuel injection (most early Magnums had throttle body injection, later on port injection). Pre-1975 Magnums are high performance versions of the LA or B/RB engines, and yes, they almost always had a 4 barrel.

Pre '75 magnums were exclusively big block I believe
 

mchartier105

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Update!!! I've put a LOT of time and energy into this project and I'm happy to say I'm almost complete! The K frame from my parts car swapped in no problem and the polyurethane mounts fit no problem. The engine dropped it but I had to do some motor mount drilling and exhaust manifold grinding to get it all to fit. Here are some recent pics :)
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mchartier105

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I've been struggling with the lean burn distributor and the 7 pin hei, I seem to get a good signal but its incredibly noisy, the RPM in TunerStudio reads all over the place during cranking. Hopefully adding an adjustable pot will help, or else I'll have to find another way to trigger it! :eek:
 

AJ/FormS

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IC

But is it really mandatory to have a teensey,weensey cam in there to hit some wished for target?
I mean the 240* teener cam is pretty small and makes pretty good mileage in a less than optimum engine. But in your Hi-comp engine Ima thinking you could go all the way to the 252*,360-2bbl cam and not lose fuel-mileage as compared to the short duration cam in the LowC engine.And you could put a whole buncha more lift into it.
The factory 252* is not big enough. Installed at 112, the Dcr will come in at about 8.34/169psi. This is borderline too high with iron heads. With tight squish, you may get it to work on 91, actually probably, but it will be close.
But with the teener cam,yes you will need the h2O injection.But here's the rub,the teener cam is really too small for this combo; you may not get any better fuel mileage with it, and have to continuously inject the water,which gets old in a hurry. On the otherhand, the 360-2 may get similar mileage, bucket-loads of more torque, and may eliminate the H20 requirement.
You may be aware of these ideas, so I may be preaching to the choir. But remember,your right foot has far more effect on fuel consumption, then a few degrees of duration.
BTW I built such a combo as you are now working on, and I can say with bucketloads of confidence, that it is possible to get mid 20s with a 270/276/110 cam............I got 32 with an overdrive.And the car went 12.9/106 in the Qtr.......And it is a 367 cuber.
With a roller-cam engine,you should be able to do better.
Furthermore; the hi-cost of top-grade fuel up here, quickly eclipses the possible small-cam mileage gain.Whatever the cost difference in top grade to bottom grade,calculated as a percentage, is the target difference in mileage,also figured as a percentage. For instance; if the price difference is 10%, then the mileage difference can also be 10% with no loss of pocket money; but if it permits the elimination of the injection system, you are money ahead. and if the bigger cam makes 15 or 20 hp more while extending the rpm 200 to 400 rpm, with no loss in low-rpm torque, then this is a win-win situation.
Here is a hypothetical;
lets say 6000 miles at 24mpg,91 required and injection.This with the small cam.So here is the math; 6000/24 x 5.00per gallon =$1250 out of pocket.
Now lets do the bigger cam,10% thing.
Say bottom grade fuel is 90% of top, so 5/1.1=4.54per gallon. Ok then the mileage can decrease also to 90%, so 24/1.1 =21.82mpgs is the target.
The math; 6000/21.82 x 4.54=$1248 out of pocket.
Same money spent
That is the math and that is the theory.
As to the bucket loads of torque, this is a relative term. Since at 10/1 the teener will have a preponderance of low-speed torque with the smaller cam, the slightly larger cam will only be slightly less preponderant.So again it's like shooting a squirrel with a .22 vs a shotgun; just how dead does the squirrel have to be?
I'm just trying to get you away from the injection system, and still keep you out of detonation,and quite possibly save you a few bucks at the pump.
I tell you what, build it with the teener cam,since you already have it. Do not yet buy the injection system. Test drive it and make timing and fuel changes as may be required. If you find that the timing has to be so far retarded as to to turn it into a dog, THEN make the decision as to water-injection or next bigger cam.I think these days, and for your combo, the cost is about the same.
Good luck.
BTW, fresh cold induction air is,or can be, your best friend.
 
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BudW

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Wow, $4.54 to $5.00 per gallon of gasoline?
Remind me to budget more for fuel expense, when visiting Canada.
I filled up Wednesday for $2.07 per gallon on 87 proof (my term for octane)/100% gasoline.

AJ/FormS, mind if I ask what you use for your calculations (BTW are top notch)? I’m assuming you have a few spreadsheets, or something, for your calculations.
If so, could I ask for a copy or web address or whatever it might be?



The next part is not directed to anyone in particular.
There is three different “ideas” (out of lack of better word usage) or styles that I commonly see (for cold air intake):
- The first type I see used is an aftermarket kit which replaces the paper air filter box/housing and uses a (typically cone shaped) K&N style oiled air filter. In most cases this style uses underhood and heated air. I don’t think this common aftermarket system is a true cold air system – but instead relies on additional air flow from the oiled air filter).
- The second type I see also uses the K&N oiled air filter but have extra hardware that uses some form or fashion to collect the cool outside air, instead of heated underhood air (not a common system, but is out there).
- The third style I see, which is present on all but a few unaltered FMJ bodies (I “think” ’76 is the exception – but could be mistaken) uses a factory cold air system (providing all factory parts are still present).

I am a big supporter of using outside, or a cold air duct system.
When you are driving the outside air actually becomes pressurized (in the case of FMJ cars, the fresh air intake is behind the L/F headlight/bumper area) which improves fuel mileage (more air, same amount of fuel = better fuel mileage at highway speeds) and a small fraction more power at highway speeds. You also have the benefit of the cooler/denser air (compared to the hotter underhood air).

Don’t believe me about the pressurized air? Just open a car window and stick your hand out the window while driving at highway speeds. That is what engine is seeing (or feeling?).

Now with all of that said, I AM NOT a fan of K&N style OILED air fitters!
Those filters use frequent maintaince (ie: constant cleaning then adding oil to filter every few miles) for the oil is what is capturing the dirt. You have to remove, then clean the air filter every few miles to rid of the oil captured dirt, then after cleaning, re-oil it again. The cleaning and the constant re-oiling rarely takes place.

The K&N style oiled air filters will flow more air (with or without the filters being oiled). Many cases, they can flow twice the air flow as a paper filter.

With that said, they DO NOT capture dirt anywhere as close as what paper does. The dirt capturing capacity between the two different filters are not even in the same continent. Paper traps the engine wearing dirt, and the Oiled filters (for the most part) DO NOT capture dirt.
You might as well not even use an air filter (this is my opinion ONLY) - if you are going to run an Oiled air filter – except to keep the big stuff out.

Again, there is no argument about Oiled filters flowing many times more air, but they also do not capture much, if any, dirt.

Dirt is your engines biggest enemy. If you spend any amount of money on an engine (sometimes thousands of dollars), why let it wear itself out by allowing unlimited amount of abrasive dirt right into it?

With all of that said, I do have an Oilable round air filter and filtered air cleaner top on a chrome base, that I can use at a track, for ¼ mile at a time usage only. After the timed track trial, the paper filter is going right back on.

If a person wants more air flow and considers the paper air filter to be the problem, I would highly encourage finding a way to double the size of the paper filter or rig a bigger filter under fender or something. Please don’t wear out a perfectly good engine from abrasive dirt!

If Oiled filters were the best thing on earth, then the OEM would have incorporated those years ago. Wait, . . . they did use them back in ‘50’s - but stopped using them sense no one took the time to perform filter maintaince. That system was what called an oil bath air cleaner. They are heavy, bulky, messy and just inconvenient.


Dodge has TSB’s # 09-004-11 and # 09-001-10 referring to dust/debris ingestion and dust out damage, on their Cummins diesels.
Matter of fact, Dodge will cancel you 100k mile diesel engine warranty if there is any signs of dust, anywhere in the intake system (after filter).

A quick search shows a lot of issues like below.
Warning!!!!! [Archive] - DodgeTalk : Dodge Car Forums, Dodge Truck Forums and Ram Forums
Now Diesels do use a ton of air (unrestricted air flow, no matter what the throttle position is), more so than most V8’s will use.

Just something to think about.
 

jasperjacko

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I agree with most of your assessment. More pleats in the filter will have more surface area, and therefore better flow. A good test of filter flow would be to install a barb/nipple between the carb entrance and the inside of the filter, and hook up a vac. gauge. Run the car and see if it pulls any vacuum on the gauge testing both filters. That should give an idea if you really need more capacity for you combo.
 

AJ/FormS

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BUD
They say everything is bigger in Texas. But that don't apply to gallons.
Canadians have the biggest gallons, having 160ounces to your 128s,lol.
Nevertheless, the 10% rule works for all sizes of gallons and all distances measured in the same units. That's why whenever I can I convert stuff to percents.
As to spreadsheets , no, I have a lil battery powered calculator, a head full of formulae, a pencil,and a pile of scrap paper.
And I totally agree with you on oiled filters.
You are not kidding! I have rebuilt more dirt-bike engines that ingested dirt through those, than I can count.
And as to "cold-air" kits sucking underhood 2bazzilion* air; Like what are manufacturers thinking? Naw when I say fresh cold air, I mean fresh cold air,lol.
OP
The colder the better.
But as to the engine temp; the hotter the better, right up until the oil cokes, then it was too much.lol.
As to Fuel-temp, who cares as long as it stays low enough to not boil, and kindof stays at the same temp.the carb was calibrated at.
If you have to limit your minimum running coolant temp, to stay out of detonation,that's just so wrong.
If your power timing has to be limited to below about 30*, to stay out of detonation you are giving up more performance than if you corrected the real issue which is probably cylinder pressure.
If you have to give up too much cylinder pressure,to be content, you need a bigger engine,lol.
But, there is nothing wrong with delaying the power timing to some higher rpm when the engine can take it. It does NOT have to be all in at 2000 or 2500 or 3000 or even 3500.Especially if the engine has a lot of pressure. You will not notice the timing loss at lower rpms. You will just drive a lil deeper into the throttle.And with hi pressure maybe even not that much deeper. But if your cam peaks at 5500, you will probably shift it up around 6200. And with an automatic having a 59% shift split, the Rs will drop to .59 x 6200=3670plus slip, so say 3850. So if your engine can take full or near-full timing by 3850, you are good to go. So maybe you have a lil hole from say 3000 to 3850,if you didn't know it was there, you would probably never notice it.And here's why; You will hardly ever be driving there! Around town you will be shifting at 2800ish, and trying to cruise around 2200ish. Occasionally you might blast it up to 3500 with 50% or60% throttle, But only rarely will you be under WOT at 3000 to 3850
And an engine built this way, with hi pressure, a small to medium cam and the 3.58 stroke, has the potential for both economy and power.I know cuz my 367 was set up that way once too.11.3Scr/9.1Dcr/188psi/aluminum heads. Great performance, Great mileage,great everything.
 
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kkritsilas

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BudW:

Not only is the Imperial Gallon bigger (160 oz. vs 128 os. for the US gallon), but the exchange rete is making those numbers look high. You need to factor in an exhange rate (roughly 30%-35% now). Using US gallons, gas is at about $3.84 Canadian. From that take 30%, so about $US2.68. Still higher, but not by as much as it would first appear. I am using gas in Calgary at 99.9/L, which is today's price.

THere are alos different fuel taxes on a per province basis, so it will vary from province to province.
 

AJ/FormS

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Yeah here it is currently same as yours or a lil less. It did dip down to 88cents a liter($4Can per gallonC) about 10 days ago, to maybe two weeks ago.Typical wages here are $16 to maybe $20 per hour, so that's about 4 to 5 gallons per hours work.But the current pricing is down from 1.32/liter($6Can per gallonC) a few months ago. That would be about 3gallons per hour worked. Most often gas is around 1.24/liter or 5.64C per gallonC.
If you can get sense of the above paragraph,you may be smarter than the guy who wrote it,lol.
OK just to be clear;No USgallons were mentioned above, nor any USdollars,lol. Your gallons are too small,and your dollars cost too much, so you guys can just keep 'em down there,lol
 
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