New Manual Fuel Pump And No Gas

[Mopar_Gods]

1. Recently replaced my manual fuel pump in my Aspen 2 Door Coupe because it had a hair line crack around the fuel line fitting. Now the fuel lines are not getting any fuel at all bone dry running from the fuel pump and from the fuel pump to the fuel filter to the carb also all bone dry. Any ideas on this anyone? This car being a mopar and a slant six I know There is no rod, Just The fuel pump arm rides on the bottom side of the eccentric on the cam. Your thoughts are appreciated I cant find anything wrong as to why I am not getting any gas at all. Also of course the fuel sending unit has been replaced and the gauge has a full tank of gas presently. I have also removed the inline at the fuel pump after cranking the engine a few times still no gas from the line. Also blew in the line for pressure build up. I have looked online for a diagram showing how the fuel pump lever should be under the cam but cant seem to find a picture my manual shows nothing just basic remove and re install which is two lines and a basic two bolt. Was thinking maybe I did not install it right but replaced new one after removing the old one. The one autozone sold me is angled a little different. Hope all is having a good spring and summer. I am doing a lot better after being very sick for a long time. Thank You

 

[BudW]

The one autozone sold me is angled a little different.

Would have been nice to see the new pump and old pump together – to show the difference.

I know the fuel pump gasket is the same on /6, small blocks as well as on big blocks. The arms are different on all 3 though. It is possible you bought the wrong pump or someone put wrong pump in the box (or someone put the wrong arm on pump when being built, and so forth).

I have seen bad fuel pumps right out of the box before – which is another possibility.
Either case, I'm afraid the pump may have to come off, to find out.
BudW

 

[Aspen500]

If the pump lever is angled different, it may not be moving at all. It's impossible to get the lever on the wrong side of the eccentric so you're installation is correct. Since everything was fine with the old pump (aside from the crack), it has to be the pump itself. Either faulty pump or simply the wrong one.

 

[Mopar_Gods]

I went ahead and put the old one back on to see if it would work and no gas is making it to the fuel pump at all even with the old one now. I also tried some air in the gas tank to try to force some gas to make it to the fuel pump still no gas. Car was running great up till now so I don't really know what the deal is.

obviously I removed it prior because I did not want a fire in my engine bay. like I said the fuel sending unit is new and the vehicle is sitting almost on a full tank of gas so I am not sure what has happen. I still cant figure it out is a pretty basic fuel system in these old cars. Worse thing is where I live half these shops don't know anything about dodges.

 

[BudW]

Pressurizing the fuel tank – doesn’t sound like a very good idea (too many scary things I see picturing in my head, from that comment).

Also, with the fuel vapor collection system, excess air will go to the charcoal canister instead of pushing fuel anywhere.
Even if you plugged the line going to charcoal canister, it still sounds like a very bad idea to pressurize the fuel tank.

Have you checked the 3 metal fuel lines running from front to rear for rust, for bent (or crimped shut) spots, and hoses for cracks?
There is a lot of fuel line, and rust / physical damage does happen.
https://www.forfmjbodiesonly.com/classicmopar/threads/fuel-supply-issue-or-is-this-supposed-to-happen.6255/#post-70531 Post # 14

Disconnecting fuel line from tank (or not – but be sure to have gas cap off) – I can see that working (ie: pressurizing the fuel line using low pressure compressed air) for testing purposes – but then you have to re-prime the fuel line.
BudW

 

[Mopar_Gods]

I went to Auto zone and told them the one they sold me I didn't think the lever was long enough. I also asked them why is it one year they have nothing for a 1977 and this year they do. I mean of course we all want original NOS parts when we are tinkering with our cars but finding those parts are not always possible so I am cool with after market parts if they work and are not crap.

I was sure to ask the manager why they are getting parts from manufacturers that don't work and of course he didn't say anything lol
Look at the picture unless I am blind they look nothing alike but was told it should work nope and they pulled that up for a 1977 Dodge aspen 2 door coupe 3.7 225.

The one Auto zone sold me is a Spectra and obviously doesn't work. I went across the street and had Advance go ahead and order me one from Car quest hopefully the design they have will work wont know till in the morning. I have looked at the lines I don't see any damage to them are clogs of any kind.

Nothing to do with a fuel pump but just like anything else in life people tend to design parts and stuff that don't seem to work so it seems or don't really know what they are selling to a customer or consumer. I remember for a long time we would always lose internet connection here at the house well for a long time frontier the provider would say well we don't know why and what we can do to fix it for you.

Well come to find out com cast line on the poll was interfering with our line also. So I told them something they should of already knew from having them and the service for over 5 years. I mean why is a customer having to do a providers job for them. I told them to bury the line in my yard fixed the internet issue and the com cast issue all at once.

So the techs they have make a decent wage but have no clue how to fix something. When you have four techs on one line or on one service call yeah something is wrong with that lol. And all scratching the head. Sometimes I wonder how much training some of these companies really provide to employee's before they hire them. I guess some of them get no training they just say I can do it hire me.

Top old pump bottom new pump

 

[Mopar_Gods]

Well the fuel pump Advance had this morning was just like the original pump that went bad. The lever was correct and a exact match. The pump still is not getting any gas. I pulled it out again to see if the cam lobe was hitting the fuel pump as it is suppose to and there are marks on the fuel pump lever showing that the cam lobe is working like it is suppose to and not broke.

So still trying to figure out why I am not getting gas. Also pulled the fuel filter off to see if it was clogged and it isn't. Since we are on the filter subject I have a clear bulb and it has never really ever showed full does anyone else's show full. I can prime the carb with gas and it will run for a few seconds and then of course shuts off.

 

[volare 77]

Make sure the rubber hose from the sending unit to the metal fuel line is good. I had one that looked good but had a small crack and got no suction.

 

[AJ/FormS]

I got some tests for ya.

1)Remove the fuel line from the pump. Remove the gas gap. Hang a piece of kleenex over the filler hole and tape it to the body so it stays there. Have a helper watch the kleenex while you blow compressed air into the tank. The kleenex will prove that some air is getting into the tank, and the helper should hear the bubbling in the tank. No smoking until the vapors have dissipated. Got airflow?
If no, figure out why. If yes, go to step 2
2) Put a vacuum gauge on the fuel pump INLET side. Fill the float bowl with gas through the bowl vent, about 50cc or less. Start her up and observe the vacuum reading. Write it down and shut the engine off.Got vacuum? If yes, your pump is good.If you have no vacuum,go to step 3)
3) remove the fuel line from the outlet side, and repeat the vacuum test, on the INLET side. Got vacuum now. Still no, your pump no worky (it could be as simple as a missing or weak return spring in it, but not 3 pumps in a row). If yes you got vacuum,go to 4)
4) put the pressure tester on the OUTLET side of the pump. Start her up for about 2 or 3 seconds.Got pressure?
No pressure means the pump is bad. You are looking for 3 to 5 psi for a slanty.
If you have pressure and vacuum, then there is nothing wrong with your pump.If the line is open to the tank, then there is nothing wrong with the supply line.
That just leaves the delivery line, the filter, and the float valve.
So undo the line from the carb and blow it out from the pump end, make sure the filter is correctly oriented, and if these are clear, then pull off the top of the carb and check that float valve!
Personally,I would skip all the tests and just go straight to the float valve first.lol.

 

[Mopar_Gods]

Well after doing the easter egg thingy with the grand babies today I had some more time to look at the issues with the aspen. Took lines off and blew compressed air thru them and replaced them now the inline is getting gas to the fuel pump. To make it short the Carburetor is shot. The fuel pump is pumping gas now though so at least that is cool. I have a carter 2 barrel. Will be looking for a carb for it now. Thank You

 

[Mopar_Gods]

The fuel pump is working. I am now getting fuel to the fuel filter and to the carb now. I also pulled back the throttle and choke cable and I can see two streams of gas filling the carb. I tried to adjust the idle screw and fast idle and it ran for awhile then shut off. The carb is getting gas now just need some help tweaking it so it will stay running at idle.

Fuel and air is obviously out of wack also the idle screw. Not sure what happen there because the issue I had previously was a fuel pump with a hair line crack in it and now the carb needs adjustments. It is always something so it seems. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thank You

 

[AJ/FormS]

Boy-O-boy your post got pushed down in a hurry!

You will have to prove where the problem exists; either fuel or spark.
So after you have proven the spark is ok, then why does the engine stall?
Well, assuming the choke is off, and so not flooding from that end, we are limited to a fuel-level issue or a low-speed circuit issue. I think these are the only two options. Since it "ran for a while, then shut off", indicating the the low speed circuit is working; I'll go with a fuel level issue.
To help diagnose this, I'll tell you this;
With a fuel level issue, that is not related to a changing fuel level, there is a test. First reset the mixture screws to 2 turns out. Then on a warmed up engine, pinch the fuel line so no more gas can get into the carb.With the engine running, just wait.
One of three things is going to happen.
1) the engine will slow down as it uses up the fuel,and then it will stall, or
2) it will continue at the same speed for quite a while, then continue as in #1 above.
3) the engine will speed up as the fuel in the bowl comes down to the proper level, then it will hang there for a bit as in #2 above, then continue as in #1 above.

The cure for #1 is a higher fuel level. The cure for #3 is a lower fuel level. #2 is already at the correct level.

Now, the above assumed that the fuel level was not changing on a moment to moment basis. We pinched the line,remember?
You will probably get a #3. This would be because the new pump blasted the bowl full of too much gas. You will have to remove the top and examine the float valve for debris in it, blow out the line to the filter, examine the floats for being full of fuel, and reset the level as may be required. Then retest.
Less likely is a #1.If you encounter this; as the rpm is falling, unpinch the line. You should then get a #2 or #3. A #2, then means it was a random thing. It might have been debris in the float valve that has now passed thru. Or it could have been a slug of water. The #3 cure is listed above.
Least likely is a #2. There is no cure for a #2, cuz it is perfect.
The new pump may have a higher operating pressure, that is overpowering the float valve. The factory float level setting is for a factory fuel pressure. The test above will lead you to a new float level setting, if so required.In some rare cases the float valve cannot handle the pressure, you will have to perform a fuel pressure test. I don't perceive this as a plausible situation in your case.

 

[Mopar_Gods]

Thanks for the feed back excuse the late response my life stays pretty busy these days. The carb has been rebuilt and all fuel lines replaced. Set the air and fuel mixture screws both at 2 1/2 turns out also and it seems pretty good. Issue has been fixed. Thank You

 

[Aspen500]

Excellent! Glad you got it all sorted out.