Oil for my 318.

[Rustyroger]

This may seem a daft question, but I can't find anywhere on this forum that tells me what oil I need for my car. It's a 1984 Fifth Avenue with a 318 btw.
Also what are the correct tire pressures please?.
Sometimes the simplest of problems can be the hardest to answer!.

Roger.

 

[lowbudget]

I'm running 10 30 Valvoline in mine. Everyone has a favorite brand. Asking what oil is likely going to open a can of worms...

As for the tire pressure look at the tire. it will state pressure for max load of the tire. I run my 2 lbs less than that since it won't be seeing max load.

 

[Aspen500]

I agree, 10W30 will be fine.
There should be a sticker in the door jamb with tire pressures. Of course, it may be long gone or illegible also.
You could run 35 psi and be OK. However, the factory recommended pressure is 29psi front and rear. Too much will wear the center of the tread, too little and the edges will wear more. The number on the tire sidewall is the max pressure for that particular tire, not for the car it's on.

 

[rcmaniac791]

I have another vote for regular old 10W30. I don't use synthetics, just change it regularly.

As far as tires go, the door sticker does say 29 psi all around on my '84 5th ave. I usually take it up one pound to make it an even 30. Haven't had any issues.

 

[lowbudget]

The tire sticker on the door is for the tires that originally came on the car 32 years ago. Tire technology has changed since then. Just saying.....

 

[Rustyroger]

OK, Millers synthetic 10w30 is what it will have.
And 29 psi is going into the tires, until the travel trailer is hooked up, then 36psi for the rears.

Thanks all who replied btw.

Roger.

 

[BudW]

In town driving 28/29 PSI is good (makes pot holes not as harsh) then bump it up to 32/35 PSI before making a long trip, for better fuel mileage.

The engine holds 4 quarts (US) (or 3.34 Imperial Quarts or 3.78L)
Plus the oil filter.

From my ’86 FSM (which should read identical to the ’84 version).

BudW

 

[Rustyroger]

Hmmm.... Maybe 10w40 instead. It's very rare for temperatures to get much below 25 or above 85 in my neck of the woods.
My local motor factors (Auto parts store to you guys) were able to cross refer the spark plugs and get them cheap and quick. NGK BPR5ES is what they came up with.

Roger.

 

[kkritsilas]

For cars without roller lifters, you may want to think about using an oil that is higher in ZDDP than is common with current SN type oils. Our cars use flat tappet hydraulic lifters, and were designed to use oil that was higher in ZDDP than current oils are.

 

[rcmaniac791]

Our cars use flat tappet hydraulic lifters

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that '84 was the last year for hydraulic flat tappet. I thought they went to a roller cam in '85.

 

[kkritsilas]

I was under the impression that is it was in '87. Could definitely be wrong on that. I guess I should have phrased it as "All our cars prior to '85 (or '87, as the case may be: use flat tappet hydraulic lifters".

Either way, it may be something the original poster would like to consider.

 

[BudW]

The viscosity of oil didn’t change with roller lifters, or not.

Kkritsilas does have a valid point – to use oil that is high in ZDDP – if he is replacing the Camshaft (non-roller).
I don’t think he is changing his camshaft, though (could be wrong), if so, regular engine oil would be fine.
BudW

 

[Rustyroger]

The engine isn't coming apart.
Valve covers and oil pan off for a look is all it had.
All was well so I'm leaving it alone.
I have a 360 that I bought in case the 318 was a dog. It will be a long term project for a full rebuild at a later date.

Do I understand this correctly?. I only need high zinc oil if I'm breaking in a new camshaft?. Or would it be a good idea to put some additive in?, would that work with a modern fully synthetic oil?.
My 1987 and 1989 GM 3800 V6 engines run happily on synthetic btw.

Roger.

 

[kkritsilas]

This is matter of difference of opinion.

I go with the belt and suspenders side of playing it safe (i.e. you cannot play it too safe). My opinion is that when these cars were new, the oil of the day, and the oil that the original engines were designed to use, had a much higher ZDDP content. I want to try to fill my engine with as close to that oil as possilbe. I may be concerned about nothing., but I don't think that my concern is baseless.

Modern oil, I think it was from SH rated and newer, reduced the ZDDP content to keep the catalytic converters working longer and better, as it was found that ZDDP adversely affected the cats.

The concern with ZDDP is with engines that have flat tappets/lifters (vs. roller tappets/lifters), ZDDP acts as a lubricant between the cam lobe and the face of the lifter, a relatively high (vs. roller tappets/lifters) pressure/friction point, because the flat lifters slide/rub on the cam lobes. Roller tappets/lifters roll (duh) over the cam lobes, so the need for lubrication is not as much of a concern. I think that of all of our cars, only the later 5th Ave. had roller lifters, at least of the V8s (my knowledge of the /6 is limited). The rest of our cars all had flat tappets/lifters. So that is why I will be using some form of high ZDDP content oil.

Amsoil makes a high ZDDP content synthetic oil. I will try to find it, but if I cannot, I will continue to use Lucas Hot Rod oil, which I can find easily. It isn't cheap, but an oil change is about $20 more expensive than using standard SN conventional oil. I can live with that.

BudW has a different opinion, and he has worked on far more cars than I have. He may be right that high ZDDP content is a non-issue. I just feel that I am doing the best for the car when I use the oil that most closely matches the oil the it was designed to run, and for $20 more per oil change, I am fine with the extra cost.

 

[volareandgtcat]

I've been lurking with interest in this thread and wonder if anybody considered diesel engine oil .. from my limited web searches they're supposed to contain ZDDP .. even tho they are reducing it there also .... just putting it out there unless there is a reason our engines can't use diesel engine oils.

 

[kkritsilas]

I have asked the same question in the past. The answer back was that the detergents/anti sludge additives in diesel engine oil were very aggressive, and not a good idea. I think the lowest acceptable ZDDP concentration for flat tappet lifters was supposed to be in the 600 ppm range. SN category oil is at 200 ppm or less, the Lucas oil I use is at 1000 ppm, and diesel is in the 750-800 ppm range. I don't know how valid the statement about the aggressiveness of the diesel engine oil additives is (it was stated by a poster), but I have settled on the Lucas Hot rod oil until I can find a local supply of the Amsoil high ZDDP content synthetic.

 

[kkritsilas]

Sometimes serendipity takes a funny turn.

Just after I posted my thoughts on ZDDP for flat tapper/lifer engines and my personal opinion on Diesel engine oil, I got today's local paper, the Calgary Sun. There is a pullout section called Driving. In the pull out, there is a column on local hot rod/special interest cars. This on was on a Chevelle (car is of no interest to me, but I know the writer). I have enclosed pictures of the article.
The close up is the one to pay attention to; it repeats the ZDDP necessity for older engines. In this case, two cam lobes were worn out due to the use of modern oil in an engine designed to use high ZDDP content oil. Just for clarity, ZDDP and zinc are the same. ZDDP is short for a chemical zinc compound that is actually used in oil (can't use zinc metal for obvious reasons).

 

[BudW]

Oil is Oil, which is Oil.

Oil viscosity is the only basic difference with engine oil – well, OK, for about 98-99% of it.

Oil comes out of the ground and it doesn’t matter if it comes from Pennsylvania, China or Mexico. The oil is the same after it is refined from no matter where.


Now with that said, the other 1 to 2% difference is where everyone gets excited about – which is additives and detergents.

Many years ago, they decided to grade oil based off the amount of additives/detergents in the oil, starting with SA (no additives/no detergents), and stair stepping up to current level of SN.

SJ rated oil is not to be used in cars 2001, or newer, SL rated oil is not to be used in cars 2004, or newer and SM rated oil only for cars older than 2010.

I use SA (which is the cheap stuff) oil for my chainsaw blade or for other things that just need an occasional drop of oil on them.

FMJ cars have a minimum rating of SE or SF (depending oil year your car was built). All higher letters supersedes the earlier letters (so we can use SM or SN oil in our cars, without problems).

The only exception (in my opinion) is new camshaft break-in does need a higher amount of ZDDP (which was done away with back in mid to late ‘90’s due to it effecting catalytic converters).

Personally, I don’t see a problem using today’s oil in our cars - if camshaft has already been broken in.
Others disagree with me on that – so in this case, I’m not going to say anything negative about Kkritsilas opinion – for they might be right.
I haven’t any testing data to say who is right, so I’m going to side-step the issue/arguement.

An engine that needs camshaft break-in – does need ZDDP and we are both in agreement with that ( . . . I think).


Diesel oil – again as in gasoline oil is still 98-99% the same exact oil. The difference is the additives and detergents added to the oil – which are quite a bit different than what is used in gasoline engines.

They also use a different rating system – which makes less sense than the SA through SN method.

I’m not happy with the latest diesel version of the current oil (CJ-4), which is not compatible with my ’97 Dodge pickup, with Cummins engine (which uses CE, CF or CF-4 oil) and which requires a high sulfur content, to keep the fuel injection pump lubricated. I will save this rant for another time – before, um, I go postal.


You can use diesel oil in a gasoline engine - I don’t know why you would want to.
Typically diesel oil is more expensive than conventional SN rated oil.
Note: It takes 3 gallon of oil, to change oil on my pickup.
BudW

 

[Justwondering]

I really appreciate that we can all chime in, have different opinions, yet be civil.
This considerate behavior is what makes this forum a great place to read and share thoughts without having the snipping often found in the rest of the 'interweb'.

My hat is off to each of you. Thanks!

 

[Master M]

Just my 2 cents on this slippery subject. I use Rotella T 15w40 in my 1985 Ford van. I was told by an engine builder to run the Rotella T because my older engine needed the Zinc. I have been running it in there for about 9 years, really only because he recommended it. It still runs fine. An engine restoration shop told me that older flat tappet engines needed a pint of Morey's engine oil stabilizer with the newer engine oil in order to keep the camshaft from wearing prematurely. So many different suggestions from people in the same line of work.