Opinions Wanted 78 Volare Wagon

[78VOLAREWAG]

OK, I need some opinions. I bought this 78 Volare Wagon. As it is right now, it is a running driving survivor. I very much like seeing low volume cars restored or refurbished at car shows. I also like to do mild customs and hot rods. My question is then, is my car unusual, that it should be restored, or common and should be hot rodded? It is a 78, 318 4speed, A/C bucket seat wagon.

 

[76SassyGrassVolare]

I like to mod & hot rod too, but imo you should try and keep that one original , 318 4 speed A/C and in decent original shape , may not have been crazy unusual back in the day but Not many around today ... maybe find a twin for it that’s already hacked a bit & hot rod that one & have the best of both worlds

 

[droptop]

Make a Load Runner out of it. Sounds like all you need is spoilers and wheel flairs. And lose the side moldings. :2cents:

 

[AJ/FormS]

It needs a torquey 360
11/1, aluminum heads, and a 228cam. Headers etc.
a powerful clutch and smoking hot tires.
And any color interior so long as it's black or saddle-tan.
Oh wait...... that's my dream.

 

[7T8 Custom]

That`s the dream for my coupe if I ever get some time to work on it.

Oh wait...... that's my dream.

 

[AJ/FormS]

What really bothers me is that back in the 80s I went thru two of these wagons, a 76 and a 79, and when they got just a lil rusty, they went to the shredder. I bought the first one as a 2 year-old for 1100 bucks, and the second was minty and maybe 7 years old ,but with burned valves. Got that one for $100.I drove that one well into the late 90s
Here's the thing; I thought they were tanks even with the teeners they both had, and the thought to hotrod them,never even crossed my mind. Many years later, I hotted up a 360, and Oh Man! if I had only known.
If I had a nice example of one of those today, I would totally install my engine into her and let her rip.
But I'd do it with an A998 that has the 2.74-1.54-1.00 ratios and I'd put a GVOD behind her, wired to be a splitter. This would give me 3 more ratios(2.14-1.20 and .78od). And the splits that go with that are .78-.72-.78-.83-.78
The benefits of that are; I can run 3.73s and hit 60 in first-over at 6200ish, and run the hiway at 65=2330ish. .......And that means a little cam like a 228@050, and I can tune that to get reeeeeeally great fuel economy.
And the best part is hitting 100 at 5800 in second-over, and then the shift pulls it down to just 4600. Yeah that's right just 1200 rpm down.And now I'm set to trap at about 5400=112.....OOPs, I might have to lose a little weight to hit 112, but you get the idea.

Op.......can you hear the 360 calling yooooooooo-hoooooooooo........
And Load-Runner for the Win!!

 

[BudW]

A nice car and a trim level above my ’77 Volare.

This picture was taken at my work about three months ago.

I bought mine with visions of dropping in a big block and changing the 318 automatic over to a 5 (or 6) speed (which I might still do). The car is all stock/original, with no A/C and woodgrain delete and showing only 44k miles on odometer. The blue color was not my first choice – but I have grown to like it.
It currently has 3.21 gears in it and it is a hoot to drive, as is.


I cannot give any suggestions on what to do with your car – after all it is, your car.
My family don’t want me to do anything to my wagon, sense it is so nice (as is) – so a bit undecided on what to do with it.

My big plan was a big block for my grey 5th Ave, automatic (with all of the bells and whistles) and big block 5-speed (or 6) for the wagon (without, um, all of the bells and whistles) – depending if I felt up to shifting, or not.
I kinda wish I did have another wagon to work with, so I can leave my nice original one, alone.

Depending on your plans with the car, there are some recommendations we have or your car that will help it (Iso-clamp removal, tossing the rubber K-frame biscuits for solid ones, etc.).

Whatever you decide, we will help you with it.

By the way, I’ve worked on a bunch of these cars - I don’t recall seeing a 318 4-speed wagon before. /6 with 4-speeds, yes – but not one with a 318.
BudW

 

[78VOLAREWAG]

A nice car and a trim level above my ’77 Volare.

This picture was taken at my work about three months ago.
View attachment 27649

I bought mine with visions of dropping in a big block and changing the 318 automatic over to a 5 (or 6) speed (which I might still do). The car is all stock/original, with no A/C and woodgrain delete and showing only 44k miles on odometer. The blue color was not my first choice – but I have grown to like it.
It currently has 3.21 gears in it and it is a hoot to drive, as is.


I cannot give any suggestions on what to do with your car – after all it is, your car.
My family don’t want me to do anything to my wagon, sense it is so nice (as is) – so a bit undecided on what to do with it.

My big plan was a big block for my grey 5th Ave, automatic (with all of the bells and whistles) and big block 5-speed (or 6) for the wagon (without, um, all of the bells and whistles) – depending if I felt up to shifting, or not.
I kinda wish I did have another wagon to work with, so I can leave my nice original one, alone.

Depending on your plans with the car, there are some recommendations we have or your car that will help it (Iso-clamp removal, tossing the rubber K-frame biscuits for solid ones, etc.).

Whatever you decide, we will help you with it.

By the way, I’ve worked on a bunch of these cars - I don’t recall seeing a 318 4-speed wagon before. /6 with 4-speeds, yes – but not one with a 318.
BudW

This one is a blast to drive, so much grunt, that I almost never have to down shift. I definitely want to let this 318 breath better, other than that, I'm not sure whether to leave it stock or not.

 

[76SassyGrassVolare]

well it wouldn't take much to leave it 'stock' in appearance and replace the teeny bopper with a 360 stroker... 400+ horsepower in a stock looking 4 speed wagon. I feel your agony though, making it a Load Runner would be awesome too! what to do what to do...Sorry to be of no help whatsoever...

 

[Oldiron440]

I CAN'T leave any thing stock, mild 360 and a true 4 speed and a nice sounding exhaust. Oh yes 15x7 ft ,15x8 r rally wheels with early caps.
I'd have to swap out the 8.25 because I would break it on the first test drive!

 

[BudW]

The 8¼” differential is a pretty decent differential – except for HIGH horsepower users. They used the same differential (wider and different bolt pattern wheels) for pickups and vans for decades with minimal problems.
All station wagons have the 8¼” differential.
Now the 7¼” differential is a 50 pound weakling and if you are running a performance engine – I would be concerned. For stock usage, a 7¼” is fine (especially, if you have a spare differential in the garage).

The 318 is a great long lasting low-performance engine. Some minor upgrades can be achieved – but all in all, a person will spend much less money and reap a lot more rewards looking for and building a 340, a 360 or a Magnum 318/360 engine.
The Magnums, 340 and 360 engines are made to make power. The 318 is made for economy and for low end grunt.

The good news is a 340/360 engine (or magnum with a bit more work) will fit right in the same place as a 318 – with a couple of different parts:
One side motor mount is different (a 318 mount can be used – but I recommend finding a 340/360 one).
Exhaust manifolds look the same but 340/360 ports are bigger - If using headers, then this doesn’t apply.
Intake manifold and cylinder heads are different – but if you get a complete 360 engine then that won’t be a problem. I do recommend an aftermarket aluminum intake manifold - for many reasons.
360 only, the engine oil pan is different from 318’s and 340’s. Finding a CAR 360 oil pan is not too hard to do and not that expensive.

If you find a Magnum engine, then you will need to decide to keep the keg intake and fuel injection system (a lot to change over, but runs nice after its done), or convert to a 4-bbl (carburetor or 4-bbl appearing fuel injection setup). The intake is the issue here. I highly recommend the 4-bbl appearing fuel injection setup – but nothing wrong with using a 4-bbl.

Also need to decide about keeping the Magnum serpentine drive belt system or converting it over to the style drive belt system you currently have. Nothing wrong with either one – but easier to “correct” before engine goes back into the car.

A Big Block is a major undertaking, as well as a new style Hemi. Both can be done - but pretty much EVERYTHING has to be changed. Dropping in a performance 360 is a pretty easy job.

Note: I will say it again: 318’s do not make for a good performance engine – not without spending thousands and thousands of dollars on it – to make the same power as an almost stock 360 4-bbl will make. Starting off with a 360, a 340 or a Magnum (318 or 360) – you will already be well towards your objective.

Even adding a stroker crankshaft kit (will give 390 to 410 cubic inches) are not that expensive and fairly easy to do. Once done, you could have a 408 ci that runs like a scalded dog - but still looks like a 318 2-bbl appearing engine.


Note: the 4-speed A833 with overdrive transmission works great for /6 and stock 318 2-bbl engines. That said the overdrive gear ratios do not work very well for any performance engine. Changing the gears inside of it to a conventional A833 4-speed (ie: no overdrive) works very well – except for the lack of overdrive. We can talk more about that later on.
BudW

 

[Oldiron440]

It's to bad your so so far from the Midwest, I have a complete 74 360 HP , complete air cleaner to oil pan, cluch fan to bellhousing. Its great starting place for a warm Mopar.

 

[78VOLAREWAG]

The 8¼” differential is a pretty decent differential – except for HIGH horsepower users. They used the same differential (wider and different bolt pattern wheels) for pickups and vans for decades with minimal problems.
All station wagons have the 8¼” differential.
Now the 7¼” differential is a 50 pound weakling and if you are running a performance engine – I would be concerned. For stock usage, a 7¼” is fine (especially, if you have a spare differential in the garage).

The 318 is a great long lasting low-performance engine. Some minor upgrades can be achieved – but all in all, a person will spend much less money and reap a lot more rewards looking for and building a 340, a 360 or a Magnum 318/360 engine.
The Magnums, 340 and 360 engines are made to make power. The 318 is made for economy and for low end grunt.

The good news is a 340/360 engine (or magnum with a bit more work) will fit right in the same place as a 318 – with a couple of different parts:
One side motor mount is different (a 318 mount can be used – but I recommend finding a 340/360 one).
Exhaust manifolds look the same but 340/360 ports are bigger - If using headers, then this doesn’t apply.
Intake manifold and cylinder heads are different – but if you get a complete 360 engine then that won’t be a problem. I do recommend an aftermarket aluminum intake manifold - for many reasons.
360 only, the engine oil pan is different from 318’s and 340’s. Finding a CAR 360 oil pan is not too hard to do and not that expensive.

If you find a Magnum engine, then you will need to decide to keep the keg intake and fuel injection system (a lot to change over, but runs nice after its done), or convert to a 4-bbl (carburetor or 4-bbl appearing fuel injection setup). The intake is the issue here. I highly recommend the 4-bbl appearing fuel injection setup – but nothing wrong with using a 4-bbl.

Also need to decide about keeping the Magnum serpentine drive belt system or converting it over to the style drive belt system you currently have. Nothing wrong with either one – but easier to “correct” before engine goes back into the car.

A Big Block is a major undertaking, as well as a new style Hemi. Both can be done - but pretty much EVERYTHING has to be changed. Dropping in a performance 360 is a pretty easy job.

Note: I will say it again: 318’s do not make for a good performance engine – not without spending thousands and thousands of dollars on it – to make the same power as an almost stock 360 4-bbl will make. Starting off with a 360, a 340 or a Magnum (318 or 360) – you will already be well towards your objective.

Even adding a stroker crankshaft kit (will give 390 to 410 cubic inches) are not that expensive and fairly easy to do. Once done, you could have a 408 ci that runs like a scalded dog - but still looks like a 318 2-bbl appearing engine.


Note: the 4-speed A833 with overdrive transmission works great for /6 and stock 318 2-bbl engines. That said the overdrive gear ratios do not work very well for any performance engine. Changing the gears inside of it to a conventional A833 4-speed (ie: no overdrive) works very well – except for the lack of overdrive. We can talk more about that later on.
BudW

I'm not looking to run drag races, I would just like it to feel like a V8. The last 318s I drove were pre 75 and felt a lot stronger.

 

[BudW]

I have driven hundreds of 318 cars and hadn’t really noticed a lot of power difference in them over the years (except for the Magnum 318).

The thing I have noticed has been the gear ratio making a huge perceived difference.
My ’86 5th Ave has a 2.2 gear ratio and it is dog, scratch that, super dog slow from a standing stop. My ’77 wagon (with 2.94 gears) will literally circle my 5th Ave twice before it gets out of the intersection – because of the gear ratio difference, only. I feel both engines make about the same power.
I will say that once the wagon gets past the intersection, the power drops off drastically (engine has already ran out of steam), whereas the 5th Ave is just getting into power.

My plans are to replace the gear ratio on my 5th Ave come spring time to 2.94 – to fix that issue. Both cars should run about the same, then (which I’m confident they will).

The wagon was on a dyno back in June (6 months ago), and it put out 135 horsepower, then. https://www.forfmjbodiesonly.com/classicmopar/threads/second-time-entering-into-a-car-show.6497/#post-72416

Using a performance meter, the wagon turned a 17.6 quarter mile. Magazine articles show the 318 23-bbls usually come in at 16.9 to 17.1 seconds. Being my engine is a bit low on power (a stock/untouched 41 year old car), so I think it is in the ball park. https://www.forfmjbodiesonly.com/classicmopar/threads/performance-meter.5547/page-2#post-62653
My ’67 Satellite with a stock 318 2-bbl automatic and 3.23 gears did 16.8 seconds – going by memory only (early ‘80’s) – so don’t take much stock on memory cells 30+ years ago.
BudW

 

[AJ/FormS]

If it has an OD trans, then it probably has something like 2.45s or 2.76s in the back, which is the first thing I would catapult into the back-40. And 3.73s would be in there like last thursday; done and gone.
The OD box has ratios of 3.09-1.67-1.00-.73od.
With 3.73s the road gears are 11.53-6.23-3.73-2.61.
These will cruise at 65=2100 with 27s, but that 11.53 starter, at a launch of 2800 will really get that wagon moving, 2bbl and all, I see a trail of tiresmoke. Second won't be too bad, as 32 mph will be about 2500,when the hammer falls . If you dare rev that old girl to 4500, you will hit about 58 mph. 60 might be about 4650, so she's done. So skip third and go gently into od and mosey on down the hiway.
On the hiway downshifting into direct will get you about 2800@60mph, for passing, and that is about in the fattest part of the teeners torque curve.By the time you hit 65 she'll be pulling hard at 3000,lol.

You may get the urge to put a 4bbl on it, but I wouldn't bother. About the best you could hope to achieve is maybe 12 hp...........at something like 4000/4500rpm, if the exhaust lets it out. If you get a mechanical secondary type carb you might pick up 6hp at 3000. So all in all a lot of money for very little gain. In second gear 3000 is 39 mph (with those 3.73s) and you won't be spinning so 6hp is about where you'd be letting off. (With 2.76s, 3000 would be 52mph, so a 4bbl would almost be a total waste.)
But you could do something with the exhaust, and let her breath. But I would measure the back-pressure before I would spend a dollar on that too.

But I tell you what; if you put 4.10s in the back, you could still cruise 65=2400, yet the starter gear would spin all the way thru first and hit 4800 at 30 mph with the 4bbl having been open pretty much the entire time. Shifting into second, the spinning will stop, but now you are at 2550, so the 4bbl may,or may not be open depending what carb you got. By 37mph the 4bbl will be howling and the power will be building to peak at 53 mph, but the 4.10 will pull you to 60@5100 with 27s, still in second. So now the 4bbl is a good deal,if the exhaust can pass the gas,lol.

 

[78VOLAREWAG]

If it has an OD trans, then it probably has something like 2.45s or 2.76s in the back, which is the first thing I would catapult into the back-40. And 3.73s would be in there like last thursday; done and gone.
The OD box has ratios of 3.09-1.67-1.00-.73od.
With 3.73s the road gears are 11.53-6.23-3.73-2.61.
These will cruise at 65=2100 with 27s, but that 11.53 starter, at a launch of 2800 will really get that wagon moving, 2bbl and all, I see a trail of tiresmoke. Second won't be too bad, as 32 mph will be about 2500,when the hammer falls . If you dare rev that old girl to 4500, you will hit about 58 mph. 60 might be about 4650, so she's done. So skip third and go gently into od and mosey on down the hiway.
On the hiway downshifting into direct will get you about 2800@60mph, for passing, and that is about in the fattest part of the teeners torque curve.By the time you hit 65 she'll be pulling hard at 3000,lol.

You may get the urge to put a 4bbl on it, but I wouldn't bother. About the best you could hope to achieve is maybe 12 hp...........at something like 4000/4500rpm, if the exhaust lets it out. If you get a mechanical secondary type carb you might pick up 6hp at 3000. So all in all a lot of money for very little gain. In second gear 3000 is 39 mph (with those 3.73s) and you won't be spinning so 6hp is about where you'd be letting off. (With 2.76s, 3000 would be 52mph, so a 4bbl would almost be a total waste.)
But you could do something with the exhaust, and let her breath. But I would measure the back-pressure before I would spend a dollar on that too.

But I tell you what; if you put 4.10s in the back, you could still cruise 65=2400, yet the starter gear would spin all the way thru first and hit 4800 at 30 mph with the 4bbl having been open pretty much the entire time. Shifting into second, the spinning will stop, but now you are at 2550, so the 4bbl may,or may not be open depending what carb you got. By 37mph the 4bbl will be howling and the power will be building to peak at 53 mph, but the 4.10 will pull you to 60@5100 with 27s, still in second. So now the 4bbl is a good deal,if the exhaust can pass the gas,lol.

 

[78VOLAREWAG]

Good info, I'll have to check out the gear ratio, I only know that it's a posi. I intend on uncorking the exhaust, the factory tail pipe is only 1 3/4

 

[AJ/FormS]

You said posi,heehee.............................................

A single 1.75 for a 2bbl may not be a bad thing; but a 40 year old cat might be. A pressure test is easy; just weld/braze a 1 ft length of 3/16 brake line into the exhaust,in front of and close to the cat. Then run a hose up to the cabin and install a low-pressure gauge there. Then go out and get it into second gear and buzzzzzz it up to 4500 at WOT, watching the gauge. You are of course looking for a number close to 0psi. At 2 psi, it's liveable, 3 psi at the top of the run, is costing you power, but; At 4psi you have a problem, but you don't know where it is. So you have to move down the line to see if it's the cat,the muffler, or the pipes. This costs you almost nothing and tells you everything you need to know, before you spend your money on something you might not need. Then if you change something, the little tubes are there so you can retest.
If you are gonna change the gears, I would test the exhaust after the new gears are in,on account of the engine loading will be different.If money is tight, I guess testing the exhaust should be first. Then later, you can do a before and after test.
When it comes to tires, and if you do install 4.10s,lol, then put the tallest ones in there that will comfortably fit; like 235/75-15s. These are about 28.8 tall and will give you all the traction you will need. Make sure they are P-rated, as the LT truck ones are pretty hard, and usually pretty heavy.Start your air pressure test at 28 to 30.

 

[78VOLAREWAG]

You said posi,heehee.............................................

GENERIC TERM, like Kleenex.

 

[BudW]

The (stock) exhaust on my ’77 is a surprising 2¼” or 2½” (after the Y converges). Yes, the Y-pipe, Cat converter and middle pipe is still 41 year and 1 month old original.
The muffler and exit pipe are not, any longer, though.

Just an FYI.
Size / Exhaust pipe CFM / Apx Horsepower
1-3/4” . 239 CFM . 108 HP
1-7/8” . 278 CFM . 125 HP
2” . 318 CFM . 144 HP
2-1/4” . 408 CFM . 185 HP
2-1/2” . 509 CFM . 232 HP

Note: as exhaust cools, it shrinks, thereby not needing the same diameter pipe the entire distance. Matter of fact, slowly reducing the pipe diameter will cut down on exhaust resonance (the ring bell noise in cabin, that some cars produce – or the ringing noise in your ears, after a drive).

The Carter BBD 2bbl carburetor is rated for 285 CFM and my '77 318 is rated for 145 HP, when new.
On a dyno, 6 months ago, my bone stock '77 318 put out 135 HP.

Gears alone will made a huge difference on your car – without even touching the engine.
Other than exhaust – I would save your money for a 360. A 4-bbl on a 318 may net 10 additional horsepower, maybe another 5 for exhaust, whereas the same mods to a 360 2-bbl will net tons more power.
318’s just were not built for performance mods – without tossing fistfuls of money at it.

Also, my experience is just as soon as you do some kind of performance mod to a 318, you lose some of the low end grunt that it produces.

I made a pledge (with myself) a long time ago, to just eave 318’s alone. Magnum 318’s are different – but not had a chance to play with one of those, yet.
Just save my beans for a bigger engine (which I’m currently doing).

I’m currently at a crossroads. The front pump seal on my ’77 wagon has been leaking for a while. It is only a few months before that seal just gives out. In my garage, I have an A999 transmission to perform a soft-parts overhaul on – so I can just swap the transmissions out.
The other thing is my 318 is leaking oil fairly bad, as well. Would be easy to remove both engine and transmission at same time to fix both concerns at once.

I don’t mind doing a quick engine reseal – but on same note . . . there are a couple of 360 engines in my garage. There is also this soft voice heard in the garage that is chanting: do it, do it. I would only guess something is saying to rebuild a worked 360 and install it – which is odd when there are more big blocks in my garage chanting the same thing.

Sigh, the options are just making my wallet scream!
BudW