Possible engine build-up

[8v-of-fury]

Will the swirl-port "302" heads from my 88 318 5th bolt on to and work properly with the 360 block/bottom end?

I was thinking of getting my heads well worked over and mating them to a 360 stock lower-end for a nice mild-to-wild power build in my 5th.

However, my question to you.. Iron? or Aluminum? It may be worth it to just spend a few extra bucks and get some Alum's, unless I find a local shop that can do heads on the budget eh?

 

[brotherGood]

If you're going to go with the 302 heads (which aren't bad) I'd take them and at least get a little work done. I can't answer on the question of if they'll go on a 360 (I can't see why not) but I can at least say a little bit of head work will be worth it. If its street application a majority of the time, I'd not even bother with aluminum heads. Heck, I've got magnum heads on mine and its only a 318..and its strong

 

[kkritsilas]

Depending on what the cost of the head work is, it may be cheaper to go with the EngineQuest heads. Out of the box, they will probably outflow the ported 302 heads. Get them with the LA pattern intake manifold bolts. You will need longer pushrods as well. EngineQuest heads are improved Magnum heads (eliminated the head cracking between the valves, improved air flow).

Again, just a suggestion, based strictly on what the cost of the ported 302 heads will cost and the performance gains vs. the cost of the EngineQuest heads plus the cost of the new pushrods and the performance gained.

 

[89.Fifth]

My 89 has 302 heads which I could get worked on if I wanted to. I also have a set of original Magnum heads that have been sitting around forever. But after many years of consideration I'm going to just forget all that and go with EQ heads because after it's all said and done the work and cost to re-engineer the other two solutions just isn't worth it.

 

[brotherGood]

If you're in a hurry, and have the cash, EQS are a good option. I didn't have the cash, nor was I in a hurry so I was able to pick up magnum heads, have some valve work done, and get a new magnum intake for about 500 and a set of spare bumpers. The EQS are better out of the box, I'll agree..but if your budget is tight and you're not in a rush..good deals are definitely out there. My heads were 35 bucks

One option, since you said you'd want to pick up a 360 bottom end..look for a 360 magnum. The swap isn't difficult, you'll have magnum heads, and with headers and a better cam..they'll make some good power cheap.

 

[kkritsilas]

360 Mangum does have some issues, but i think they are worth it.

Cons:
-You will need the B&M flexplate to fix the external balance of the 360 if you are mating it up to a transmission that used to be behind a 318. Alternative is to see if you can get the Torque Convertor when you get the 360 Magnum
-One of the engine mounts needs to be changed over to a 360 type.
-If you aren't going to stay with the fuel injection, you need a Magnum type intake manifold. They are a little bit harder, and a little bit more expensive than the LA type.
-You run the risk of the Magnum Head crack.

Pros:
-It fits fine, both in the car and onto the transmission (see above for caution regarding external engine balance
-Serpentine belt drive is an improvement over the multiple V belt drive
-Significantly more power, both HP and Torque
-Tighter engine tolerances
-Use of high zinc engine oil is no longer required.

 

[BudW]

A pre-Magnum 318 cylinder head will fit and bolt onto a 360 – but it is not a direct fit, per se.

The biggest issue is the intake ports are smaller on 318 and you will have an intake port size mismatch. If you went with a 318 intake, then no mismatch would be present - but that kinda defeats the purpose of larger ports.

There is also an exhaust port mismatch – but it will not be a problem

The compression ratio will be different. This is where the 318 heads shine for they will increase the overall compression ratio a tad. The bumped up compression ratio can (will?) counteract the intake port mismatch.


I would rather put the 360 cylinder heads on a 318, which also has higher compression pistons installed, than the other way around.
Air flow is your friend (as well as the correct camshaft) and 318 cylinder heads just will not flow as much air as a 360 head will – no matter what you do to them first.

That said, a Magnum cylinder head flows even better than the pre-magnum 360 heads are – so if I was going to spend some money on a small block, a magnum 360 gives you more bang for your buck.

A stroker kit will be the second biggest bang for your buck – and can also get your compression ratio closer to where you want it to be, at same time.

No matter which cylinder head you use, the camshaft is the most important part to tie it all together – so once you know what cylinder heads you will use, compression ratio, car weight, and other factors, can make or break your overall experience.

 

[8v-of-fury]

I would love to bolt a 5.9 Mag in to this car. There are some Jeeps around here on the kijiji all the time with the 98 limited edition (5.9 mag engine) and a beefy 46re auto behind them. The only problem there is, it would be hell to fit that transmission in the 5th's tunnel I am sure of it lol. Would also need to find a differet tail housing for it, to be 2wd compatible.

I am only considering the 360 block for the added displacement, I am not in anyway ruling out using the stock bottom I have now. It only has 117k kms (72k miles) on it.

 

[BudW]

Fitting a 904 series (904, 998 or 999) or a 727 behind a magnum 360 is easy as long as you either have the correct aftermarket flexplate (preferred) or correct balanced torque converter (not as preferred, but will work).
The overdrive automatic transmission will fit but will require a lot of fabrication to tunnel to fit. You also have to mess with the electronics to get the overdrive to work, as well.

That said, the magnum fuel injection will fix a ton of drivability concerns our cars have (or any aftermarket fuel injection changeover).

The overdrive section is right where the transmission mount is at, so you will need to make tunnel bigger at that location and rearwards some, then find a way to attach transmission mount back several inches.
It can be done – just depends on how much time you have and how you are on fabricating.

It would have been wonderful if Chrysler did this for our cars around the mid ‘80’s. It would have making these modifications so much easier (plus the convenience of fuel injection and overdrive).

BudW

 

[8v-of-fury]

I also have at my disposal (if the mother in law desides to scrap it) a 96 5.2 magnum Dakota here that has suffered a very recent no oil pressure issue. It sat all last year and this year. Upon firing it up one day, it had no oil pressure. So here it sits. Would these heads be desirable in stock form? Or would they also need to be ported and the likes to see the big gains from them ?

If she was to scrap it, i'd likely take the time to snatch the heads if it were worth my time.

Bud, yeah.. the only thing I hate about the 904 is the damn 1:1.. meaning anything but the 2.22's will make it a highway screamer lol

 

[8v-of-fury]

I am thinking here.. the much higher HP and TQ numbers with a higher stall (2500-2700??) should actually work well with the 904 and the 2.22 rear gears. 1st and 2nd with the stall will be strong and the lockup will ensure a nice low cruising RPM without the trans stalling and heating up. The fact that the 904 is currently almost always locked - 90% of my driving is above 60km/h - there really won't be too much issue with the added heat prone to higher stall converters. However, I'd still be adding a trans cooler anyway.

 

[BudW]

The Magnum 318 is still a strong engine, as is.

I might be wrong, but I recall hearing the Magnum 318 and 360 cylinder heads are the same.
I got out about the time the Magnums came out – so not as much knowledge with them.

Unless you do a lot of highway driving, getting 2.9 (or higher) gears in the car will make a big difference, all by itself.
Justwondering does nothing but highway driving so I can see her staying with the 2.2’s.
I do nothing but in-town driving and already have plans on installing 2.94’s into my 5th Ave – just not done it yet.

BudW

 

[8v-of-fury]

I live in a small town of 1100 people - so highway is my every single day. Not necessarily 80mph.. but 55-65-70 is a very common daily occurrence. I could drive through town 20 times and not put on 15 miles.. lmao. I need to keep the highway abilities. I was doing about 95mph the other day racing a friend home from work.. she was purrrrrring along at 2600 rpm. Not even a sweat right? I do like that about it.

I think I could swing the 2.9's, it only raises the 3rd gear RPM by 600.. so it's likely not going to cause any thing other than a better power band

 

[Dr Lebaron]

Chrysler Pentastar V6 cop motor and a turbo or two.
More HP than a 8cyl carb motor, over counter parts, less weight, runs on todays crappy gas and much better gas mileage.

 

[kkritsilas]

...and will cost a small fortune to work out the electronics on.

I think the ideal for our cars for an all around great combination without breaking the band is a carb'd 318 or 360 (With EngineQuest heads for the LA, head inspecttion for the Magnum), a 4 speed automatic (i.e. a 46RH). amd a sure grip 8 1/4" with either 3.23:1 or 3.55:1 gearing. The lower rear end gears would make up for the taller first gear of the 46RH, while the overdrive of the 46RH would keep the highway RPMs low, reducing both wear and fuel consumption. The 360, either in LA or Magnum form, with a few basic mods (tuned up 4 barrel, or modern equivalent, dual exhause with headers, and an appropriate cam, nothing too fancy) should be a good all around engine, either in town or on the highway, with enough power to keep from getting boring.

 

[8v-of-fury]

So either I have my 302's done up or these stock magnums done up. Downside to the magnums I guess is needing a new intake, but less machine work done (assuming they aren't cracked already) to get to a good spot. IE. the magnums already have an acceptable valve/port sizes.

Can anyone give me a concrete answer as to the CR of an 88 318 with the 302's? I have looked and looked.. no solid answers. All of it seems to be early 70's and 60's information on them.

 

[brotherGood]

The 302s began in 85..according to what I've heard. 85-89 CR was 9:1 I believe.

http://www.angelfire.com/ca/mikesspot

 

[6thGenImperial]

Yes, the Fast burn heads had 62.6cc heart-shaped chambers with CR of 9:1. To do the 360 short block justice, have the heads hogged out to 360 port sizes, and have 1.88/1.60 valves installed. 318 and 360 Magnum heads are identical. CR on a 360 with Magnum heads would be 8.9:1. Stock Magnum heads will support 400hp at 6,000rpm in naturally aspirated form on either 318 or 360. Naturally, the 360 will have more torque down low. Also keep in mind that with the Magnum head swap, you get an automatic bump in cam specs, as the rocker ratio will be 1.6:1.

 

[80mirada]

It isn't cheap to open 302s up to 360 ports, 308s are a better choice for a 360. The 302 can be a very serious performance head but the cost of the work can be prohibitive.

 

[6thGenImperial]

It isn't cheap to open 302s up to 360 ports, 308s are a better choice for a 360. The 302 can be a very serious performance head but the cost of the work can be prohibitive.

Exactly, so grab a Dremel or port them to their best effect without hogging to 360 size, don't go for all out HP. Mopar actually ported the 302's, and with a 4V dual plane M1, 9:1CR, and a .450" lift cam they had a 55HP gain despite the small valves. Now that was more than the open chambered 360, even the ported open chamber 360 head, with better low rpm torque as well. They then took the 360 fast burn (what became the 308) and got even more HP as the bigger valves and ports tend to do. But on a 360 short block, I'd snag some Magnums I think.