The Dangers Of Letting Your Mind Wander...

Jonnyuma

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Don't read this. It's a long-winded stream-of-consciousness ramble.
I'm a trucker and I drive at night. Doing this through the featureless eastern Oregon and western Idaho high desert has its perils... one of which is thinking too much. Having a 4-wheeled blank canvas (or 3. Or 4) sitting at home almost always guides the brain-drift.

Last night I revisited the idea of turning my 79 Lebaron coupe into a "what if" euro-trash fighter.

It takes some imagination...

Other than Porsche, the Germans weren't really in the performance game til the 80s (first M3 in 85, the Quattro came on around the same time) but car-snobs still gab on about the handling and seat-of-the-pants fun that the vintage BMW 2002tii, Audi Fox/4000, and even VW Rabbit deliver. The Ms, Ss, AMGs, GTIs all came later BUUUT... they really invented the concept of the "performance sedan" and sold it like crazy. While our Big 3 went bigger, softer, and added stripes, they went for handling, small high-revving engines and slick-shifting manuals. When American cars started to get smaller the Germans (and Japanese) had already cornered the market. They were adding turbos and gears while we were still pushing "personal coupes". Oh yeah, we tried (Cosworth Vega, the impressive Shelby GLH, etc) but weren't able to make much of a dent in that import market. I don't think the Big 3 really took the threat that seriously.

Nowadays you can hardly pick up a contemporary car magazine without a front-cover blurb about "Cadillac's Latest BMW-Fighter!" or "Corvette Takes Aim At Porsche!". I have an interest in almost all cars... the super exotics don't hold a lot of fascination for me, but they're still fun to look at and read about... kind of like a million dollar American musclecar crossing the block at Barrett Jackson. It's a different planet entirely, but we all burn gas and have 4 rubber patches on the road... there is a common thread.

My Lebaron as a contemporary concept (Lexus, Acura, BMW, Audi, Benz competitor) from another planet (1970s America) is what I was thinking about last night. What would the SRT team do if they were charged with beating the europeans at their own game? I don't mean L'il Red Truck brutish HP (I like that too), but inside, outside, and more importantly... underneath. Cop stuff? A 4-speed? Big giant swaybars?

I think I'm done for now. This was cathartic... sometimes I need to ramble a bit to straighten out my thoughts, bang ot out in wrinting.

If you read this entire nonsense, thank you. If you read all of this and have actual suggestions, thank you again.
 

Duke5A

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At least when your mind wonders if forms a coherent thought. Mine can start with something serious and almost always ends with squirrels.

When these cars were new and even for some time afterwards there simply wasn't enough support available to make them handle that well, or at least to the standards you're referring to. Biggest issues were lack of a good steering box and adequate torsion bars. The aftermarket has these options now. Firm Feel stocks the torsion bars in one size (#300 lbs) and Borgeson makes a bolt-in box that is light years beyond the factory setup. FF will also custom make bars in higher spring rates if you call them. This stuff isn't cheap though.

I don't know how married you are to the factory setup. If you have the skills and tools it might be better to use later model factory setups like grabbing an entire engine cradle and suspension from something modern. I kicked around the idea of a C3 Corvette front cradle for my Fifth Avenue at one point, but scrubbed it since I already had all the aftermarket goodies to make the factory setup work well. Starting from scratch though, might be an idea.

Below are some measurements...

MOPAR - 13_2-Fig2-Alignment_Dimensions_H_N_F_G_B_S_X.jpg
20180331_211813.jpg


It would fit inside the rails, but I don't have the hub to hub measure for the C3 cradle. Lots of aftermarket support, but you would be raising a bastard child at this point. :eek:
 

Dr Lebaron

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If I was in older NASCAR territory, I'd try to source some 90's Daytona IROC parts.
If a F front sub works on a Daytona then the opposite should apply.
3144468076_edabfe9b35_z.jpg
 

BudW

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Direct Connection made/sold parts to convert a Daytona/Spirit/Shadow/Avenger to a V-8 rear wheel drive platform – but not sure for how long, how many kits got sold or if any kits can still be found.
This is another one of those things I should have gotten my hands on one (but didn’t have the money then, either).

The Omni/Horizon (L-body), K-car and all of its derivatives (E, etc.), G-body (Daytona), H-body’s (GTS/Lancer), J-body (Lebaron), P-body (Shadow), C-body (Dynasty), AA (Spirit) and S-body (all of the early Caravans) – There is no way (in __!) an FMJ K-frame will come anywhere close to fitting – not without structurally rebuilding the entire front end of the car.

This is the typical K-frame for one of these cars:
CDP055.gif

0996b43f80204c4b.gif

BudW
 

Dr Lebaron

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I knew about those conversion kits, but they are long gone.

I knew a guy who took engines out of Daytonas/Omnis and used F K frames for RWD conversions.
He had a bunch 20 yrs ago or so.
 

BudW

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Decades ago, there was a person in Dallas (TX) doing some kind of Mopar FWD to RWD conversion, using his own parts – but not sure what or how, exactly.

With all the Direct Connection kits and “other” kits, I wonder how just how many FWD cars got converted to RWD - that made its way to the streets (and not full-time racing)?
BudW
 

Oldiron440

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An old friend of mine has a Viper V10 in a early 90s Lebaron, no kit involved.
 

Oldiron440

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I can't see a Fbody sub in any of the FWD cars listed, the cars are just to narrow.
 

Jonnyuma

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I always thought the Avenger and 2dr Sebring were good-looking cars. A Marine buddy of mine had an IROC Daytona... it would scoot pretty good. A lot better than the decomissioned 75 Coronet I was wheeling in those days.
 

BudW

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My first (and only) new car was an ’87 Daytona Shelby. Medium dark blue with T-tops. 2.2L Turbo II 5-speed.

From a stand still, it took a lot to get car moving – too much car, not enough engine.
However, any speed above 30 MPH, there was not anything I ran across that could run away from me, including 1100cc motorcycles.
From a standstill, fuhgeddaboudit. You see nottin’ but their disappearing taillights.

Putting that powertrain into a lighter car (like an Omni) – it would be a rocket.
BudW
 
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