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Hey guys, I'm doing a mild build on my 1987 Chrysler fifth avenue 318(big cam, 4 barrel swap, headers, and a limited slip 8 1/4). I know that they either came with the a904 or a727 and I'm not sure which I have or how to tell for certain, I know the 904 isn't necessarily known for its strength so if I do have it will I be okay to use it with a rebuild or should I swap out for something stronger

received_6303227623024342.jpeg


IMG_20210615_092244.jpg


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Yes she has diplomat bezels on I got them from the junkyard and put them on because I thought I'd like them better but I don't and I'm putting the originals back on after I make clear lenses for them
 

Mikes5thAve

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It's very unlikely to be a 727.
For what you're doing I wouldn't rebuild or replace the transmission until there was a reason to.

Mopar trans-pans-difference.jpg
 
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Okay thanks, I originally thought it was a 904 but then I saw a forum that made me question it, it only has 60k on it but the car did sit for 16 years however I have got it running and yard driving and the transmission does seem to be fine
 

BudW

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A nice looking car and I like your plans with it.

The last picture shown – shows a A904/A998/A999 transmission pan.

A few (very small percentage, maybe a 0.1%) of M-bodies came with the A727 transmission. The rest came with the A904/A998/A999 transmission. The '60's to late-70's A904 wasn't known for its strength. The A998 is a stronger version of the A904 and A999 is a Heavy Duty version of the A904/A998.

Chrysler came out with lockup torque converter mid-year '78. If you will be doing much driving (daily driver or much on highway), then I do recommend the lockup converter for it will get you ~10% better fuel mileage. If car will be a weekend warrior only, then not sure it will make a difference.

Around '80 (or so), Chrysler stopped production of the Light Duty A904 – so the only choices you had were the Medium Duty A998 or A999 (HD).
On top of that, they also installed a lower first gear set, around '81 (or so) – which most people prefer (older first gear was 2.45:1 and newer first gear is 2.74:1) – which is worth it to have (the lower gear set).
Around '84, or so, Chrysler stopped production of the A998.

Your car should already have an A999 in it – which is great because of the first gear set and it is a pretty strong unit already. If you look at the fender tag, there should be a code "DGA" (which is for the A999), like this one:
20190924_22390r.jpg

This tag is from my '86 Fifth Ave.

Most of the people that I know of in drag racing, will only use the A999 because of its lighter weight, reliability and because of the lower first gear set.

It sounds like you already have a plan for the car. The only thing I would add is I would highly recommend replacing the rear differential gear set from the factory installed 2.2:1 gear set to 3.2 (or lower) – if not already done so.
BudW
 

AJ/FormS

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There is nothing a normally aspirated lo-compression 318 can do to a properly built 904/998/999, that it cannot take.
The 2.74-1.54-1.00 ratios are actually wide ratios with splits of .56/.65; slightly wider than the
2.45-1.45-1.00 ratios of the standard A904, with splits of .59/.69..
But if you are limited to a very low hiway gear, they help get you moving off the line.
Typically those ratios come with a 2.20 or a 2.45 rear gear, and so the starter gear is 6.03 or 6.71
When 2.76s were the norm with a 2.45 low, the starter-gear was 6.76
________________
In post #1, y
ou say you are building a big-cammed 318 but you did not mention having boosted the compression or installed a hi-stall Convertor.
I can tell you right now, that if the car still has the original hi-way gears and factory convertor, when you install that 318, you are in for a shock.
Installing a long-period cam, always , always reduces the cranking cylinder pressure, which reflects the power that the engine will make at LOW rpm.
The factory cam has an Intake Closing Angle (ICA), of about 48*, and makes about 135psi on that, at sealevel.
Typically a modest 318 cam will have an ICA of 58*, which will drop the pressure to 125, which is a loss of pressure of 7.4%; which will reduce your lowspeed performance to about 86%. This goes away as the rpm rises, but it will take to about 3500rpm, in your case. to break even, and 3500rpm is 38mph with a 2.45 x2.74 gears. I told you it was shocking. If you happen to have 2.2s, then the break-even point is perhaps 42 mph. And with 2.2s you can get 65=4500 in 2.74 first gear, just after your big cam has awakened. I told you it was shocking. With 2.45s it is a bit better, 65=5000, probably close to the power-peak of your big cam. The point is this; with either rear gear, it's gonna be one gear to 65 mph. At 55mph on the downshift from Third to Second for passing, the rpm will be about 2860@10% slip with 2.45s, or 2580@10% slip with 2.2s; so forget trying to pass in Second gear. And in First, all you get is a second and a half of screaming engine, then back into Second..
Performance off the line with either gear, with the lost low-rpm cylinder pressure, and the stock TC, will be, abysmal .

So, the questions remain;
1) are you planning on boosting the compression?
2) are you installing a higher than stock TC?
3) are you considering a more performance oriented rear gear?

If you are looking for 340 type performance, remember that the early ones made about 175 psi, ran at least 2400TCs and with the automatics always came with 3.23s unless ordered otherwise. They were advertised at 340 ftlbs at 3200rpm. Into the E70-14 tires of the day, that was about
340 x 2.45 x 3.23 =2690ftlbs.
Yours with stock compression, will be lucky to make 150 ftlbs,at the very lo stall, so;
150 x 2.74 x 2.45=1007 ; I told you it was shocking.
And I didn't even factor in the hydraulic TM (Torque Multiplication) that occurs inside the TCs.

So, the bottom line is;
You just gotta budget for a higher stall TC and some big rear gears to go with that big cam. Maybe you have, IDK.
And if it was me and I had it all apart, there is absolutely NO WAY I would put it back together at the stock compression ratio. Maybe you have considered that, IDK; you didn't say.

BTW
I have swapped a 340 cam into a lo-compression 318, twice!, with the big open-chamber X heads. Both times with a 904 and once each with 2.76s, and 2.94s; and ...... both times the car was a dog off the line, and didn't wake up, as predicted, until late in the rpm band.
And one time into a 69 Satellite 9.5 Scr(IIRC) 318, with 3.23s Which was better, but it didn't wake up off the line until we put a much higher stall TC into it.
 
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There is nothing a normally aspirated lo-compression 318 can do to a properly built 904/998/999, that it cannot take.
The 2.74-1.54-1.00 ratios are actually wide ratios with splits of .56/.65; slightly wider than the
2.45-1.45-1.00 ratios of the standard A904, with splits of .59/.69..
But if you are limited to a very low hiway gear, they help get you moving off the line.
Typically those ratios come with a 2.20 or a 2.45 rear gear, and so the starter gear is 6.03 or 6.71
When 2.76s were the norm with a 2.45 low, the starter-gear was 6.76
________________
In post #1, y
ou say you are building a big-cammed 318 but you did not mention having boosted the compression or installed a hi-stall Convertor.
I can tell you right now, that if the car still has the original hi-way gears and factory convertor, when you install that 318, you are in for a shock.
Installing a long-period cam, always , always reduces the cranking cylinder pressure, which reflects the power that the engine will make at LOW rpm.
The factory cam has an Intake Closing Angle (ICA), of about 48*, and makes about 135psi on that, at sealevel.
Typically a modest 318 cam will have an ICA of 58*, which will drop the pressure to 125, which is a loss of pressure of 7.4%; which will reduce your lowspeed performance to about 86%. This goes away as the rpm rises, but it will take to about 3500rpm, in your case. to break even, and 3500rpm is 38mph with a 2.45 x2.74 gears. I told you it was shocking. If you happen to have 2.2s, then the break-even point is perhaps 42 mph. And with 2.2s you can get 65=4500 in 2.74 first gear, just after your big cam has awakened. I told you it was shocking. With 2.45s it is a bit better, 65=5000, probably close to the power-peak of your big cam. The point is this; with either rear gear, it's gonna be one gear to 65 mph. At 55mph on the downshift from Third to Second for passing, the rpm will be about 2860@10% slip with 2.45s, or 2580@10% slip with 2.2s; so forget trying to pass in Second gear. And in First, all you get is a second and a half of screaming engine, then back into Second..
Performance off the line with either gear, with the lost low-rpm cylinder pressure, and the stock TC, will be, abysmal .

So, the questions remain;
1) are you planning on boosting the compression?
2) are you installing a higher than stock TC?
3) are you considering a more performance oriented rear gear?

If you are looking for 340 type performance, remember that the early ones made about 175 psi, ran at least 2400TCs and with the automatics always came with 3.23s unless ordered otherwise. They were advertised at 340 ftlbs at 3200rpm. Into the E70-14 tires of the day, that was about
340 x 2.45 x 3.23 =2690ftlbs.
Yours with stock compression, will be lucky to make 150 ftlbs,at the very lo stall, so;
150 x 2.74 x 2.45=1007 ; I told you it was shocking.
And I didn't even factor in the hydraulic TM (Torque Multiplication) that occurs inside the TCs.

So, the bottom line is;
You just gotta budget for a higher stall TC and some big rear gears to go with that big cam. Maybe you have, IDK.
And if it was me and I had it all apart, there is absolutely NO WAY I would put it back together at the stock compression ratio. Maybe you have considered that, IDK; you didn't say.

BTW
I have swapped a 340 cam into a lo-compression 318, twice!, with the big open-chamber X heads. Both times with a 904 and once each with 2.76s, and 2.94s; and ...... both times the car was a dog off the line, and didn't wake up, as predicted, until late in the rpm band.
And one time into a 69 Satellite 9.5 Scr(IIRC) 318, with 3.23s Which was better, but it didn't wake up off the line until we put a much higher stall TC into ii do

There is nothing a normally aspirated lo-compression 318 can do to a properly built 904/998/999, that it cannot take.
The 2.74-1.54-1.00 ratios are actually wide ratios with splits of .56/.65; slightly wider than the
2.45-1.45-1.00 ratios of the standard A904, with splits of .59/.69..
But if you are limited to a very low hiway gear, they help get you moving off the line.
Typically those ratios come with a 2.20 or a 2.45 rear gear, and so the starter gear is 6.03 or 6.71
When 2.76s were the norm with a 2.45 low, the starter-gear was 6.76
________________
In post #1, y
ou say you are building a big-cammed 318 but you did not mention having boosted the compression or installed a hi-stall Convertor.
I can tell you right now, that if the car still has the original hi-way gears and factory convertor, when you install that 318, you are in for a shock.
Installing a long-period cam, always , always reduces the cranking cylinder pressure, which reflects the power that the engine will make at LOW rpm.
The factory cam has an Intake Closing Angle (ICA), of about 48*, and makes about 135psi on that, at sealevel.
Typically a modest 318 cam will have an ICA of 58*, which will drop the pressure to 125, which is a loss of pressure of 7.4%; which will reduce your lowspeed performance to about 86%. This goes away as the rpm rises, but it will take to about 3500rpm, in your case. to break even, and 3500rpm is 38mph with a 2.45 x2.74 gears. I told you it was shocking. If you happen to have 2.2s, then the break-even point is perhaps 42 mph. And with 2.2s you can get 65=4500 in 2.74 first gear, just after your big cam has awakened. I told you it was shocking. With 2.45s it is a bit better, 65=5000, probably close to the power-peak of your big cam. The point is this; with either rear gear, it's gonna be one gear to 65 mph. At 55mph on the downshift from Third to Second for passing, the rpm will be about 2860@10% slip with 2.45s, or 2580@10% slip with 2.2s; so forget trying to pass in Second gear. And in First, all you get is a second and a half of screaming engine, then back into Second..
Performance off the line with either gear, with the lost low-rpm cylinder pressure, and the stock TC, will be, abysmal .

So, the questions remain;
1) are you planning on boosting the compression?
2) are you installing a higher than stock TC?
3) are you considering a more performance oriented rear gear?

If you are looking for 340 type performance, remember that the early ones made about 175 psi, ran at least 2400TCs and with the automatics always came with 3.23s unless ordered otherwise. They were advertised at 340 ftlbs at 3200rpm. Into the E70-14 tires of the day, that was about
340 x 2.45 x 3.23 =2690ftlbs.
Yours with stock compression, will be lucky to make 150 ftlbs,at the very lo stall, so;
150 x 2.74 x 2.45=1007 ; I told you it was shocking.
And I didn't even factor in the hydraulic TM (Torque Multiplication) that occurs inside the TCs.

So, the bottom line is;
You just gotta budget for a higher stall TC and some big rear gears to go with that big cam. Maybe you have, IDK.
And if it was me and I had it all apart, there is absolutely NO WAY I would put it back together at the stock compression ratio. Maybe you have considered that, IDK; you didn't say.

BTW
I have swapped a 340 cam into a lo-compression 318, twice!, with the big open-chamber X heads. Both times with a 904 and once each with 2.76s, and 2.94s; and ...... both times the car was a dog off the line, and didn't wake up, as predicted, until late in the rpm band.
And one time into a 69 Satellite 9.5 Scr(IIRC) 318, with 3.23s Which was better, but it didn't wake up off the line until we put a much higher stall TC into it.
I have a 8 1/4 rear end from a jeep that I'm going to swap in with a limited slip unit and better gears and I have machined 1970 date code 318 heads with valve work
There is nothing a normally aspirated lo-compression 318 can do to a properly built 904/998/999, that it cannot take.
The 2.74-1.54-1.00 ratios are actually wide ratios with splits of .56/.65; slightly wider than the
2.45-1.45-1.00 ratios of the standard A904, with splits of .59/.69..
But if you are limited to a very low hiway gear, they help get you moving off the line.
Typically those ratios come with a 2.20 or a 2.45 rear gear, and so the starter gear is 6.03 or 6.71
When 2.76s were the norm with a 2.45 low, the starter-gear was 6.76
________________
In post #1, y
ou say you are building a big-cammed 318 but you did not mention having boosted the compression or installed a hi-stall Convertor.
I can tell you right now, that if the car still has the original hi-way gears and factory convertor, when you install that 318, you are in for a shock.
Installing a long-period cam, always , always reduces the cranking cylinder pressure, which reflects the power that the engine will make at LOW rpm.
The factory cam has an Intake Closing Angle (ICA), of about 48*, and makes about 135psi on that, at sealevel.
Typically a modest 318 cam will have an ICA of 58*, which will drop the pressure to 125, which is a loss of pressure of 7.4%; which will reduce your lowspeed performance to about 86%. This goes away as the rpm rises, but it will take to about 3500rpm, in your case. to break even, and 3500rpm is 38mph with a 2.45 x2.74 gears. I told you it was shocking. If you happen to have 2.2s, then the break-even point is perhaps 42 mph. And with 2.2s you can get 65=4500 in 2.74 first gear, just after your big cam has awakened. I told you it was shocking. With 2.45s it is a bit better, 65=5000, probably close to the power-peak of your big cam. The point is this; with either rear gear, it's gonna be one gear to 65 mph. At 55mph on the downshift from Third to Second for passing, the rpm will be about 2860@10% slip with 2.45s, or 2580@10% slip with 2.2s; so forget trying to pass in Second gear. And in First, all you get is a second and a half of screaming engine, then back into Second..
Performance off the line with either gear, with the lost low-rpm cylinder pressure, and the stock TC, will be, abysmal .

So, the questions remain;
1) are you planning on boosting the compression?
2) are you installing a higher than stock TC?
3) are you considering a more performance oriented rear gear?

If you are looking for 340 type performance, remember that the early ones made about 175 psi, ran at least 2400TCs and with the automatics always came with 3.23s unless ordered otherwise. They were advertised at 340 ftlbs at 3200rpm. Into the E70-14 tires of the day, that was about
340 x 2.45 x 3.23 =2690ftlbs.
Yours with stock compression, will be lucky to make 150 ftlbs,at the very lo stall, so;
150 x 2.74 x 2.45=1007 ; I told you it was shocking.
And I didn't even factor in the hydraulic TM (Torque Multiplication) that occurs inside the TCs.

So, the bottom line is;
You just gotta budget for a higher stall TC and some big rear gears to go with that big cam. Maybe you have, IDK.
And if it was me and I had it all apart, there is absolutely NO WAY I would put it back together at the stock compression ratio. Maybe you have considered that, IDK; you didn't say.

BTW
I have swapped a 340 cam into a lo-compression 318, twice!, with the big open-chamber X heads. Both times with a 904 and once each with 2.76s, and 2.94s; and ...... both times the car was a dog off the line, and didn't wake up, as predicted, until late in the rpm band.
And one time into a 69 Satellite 9.5 Scr(IIRC) 318, with 3.23s Which was better, but it didn't wake up off the line until we put a much higher stall TC into it.
I have a 8 1/4 rear end from a jeep that I'm going to put a limited slip unit in and 1970 date code heads that have been machined and have bigger valve springs, as far as a torque converter I'm not sure on what I'm gonna need specifically but I know that the stock won't be good for what I'm doing
 
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