Update, the '84, and minor paint correction?

rcmaniac791

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What's up everyone? So a little update with me and the car. My second year of college is very rapidly coming to an end (3 more days! 3 more days!) and the 5th is holding it's own, once again being extremely reliable and dependable. I had a bit of a pinging issue at part throttle, but when I checked the timing, it was reading 25* at IDLE! Waaaay too much. I set that back down to 16*, and she's much happier. I'm also still not leaking oil, which is awesome.

I'll be also working at my local Deere dealer again this summer, so if you have any tractor/mower questions, feel free to hit me up :)

Anyway, now to my question:
Car show season is upon us, and since I (sadly) have to store the car outside, the paint is starting to show some minor fading on the roof and the trunk lid. The pictures don't really do justice, but they show some spots that are not quite as shiny as others. The paint is completely original, and has been garaged up until 2013.

What do y'all recommend I do to correct this before it gets really bad? Should I compound the areas, and then wax? what about clay-bar? There is some dirt and imperfections in the paint overall, and I don't think it has ever seen clay. Any other tips would be appreciated. Thanks guys.
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lowbudget

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I would grab a buffer in a shady spot and get busy. I used Meguiars compounds on my Aspen and they really work well. I'm at work so I can't go look but my local auto paint jobber told me what pads and products to use, That Acrylic Enamel really shines up. He also sold me a cheap buffer that worked great. I need to do it again days off. Oh yeah and a good quality wax afterwards,
 

Aspen500

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A suggestion on the wax. The best stuff I've ever used is the Griot's Garage Liquid Poly wax. Goes on easy, buffs off easy with no white dust or residue and nothing sticks to it. Plus, the gloss is beyond amazing. Works excellent on chrome too. Somehow it makes the chrome look deeper (if that's the word to use). I know, it's $25 for a 16 ounce kit but you'll be able to do your entire car probably 50 times with that amount. Goes a long way.
Before you buff the paint, I would use the clay bar and quality quick detailer first. It'll get contaminants out of the paint, while buffing could just embed them even further.

Liquid Gloss Poly Wax, 16 Ounces - Griot's Garage
 

kkritsilas

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There are a lot of videos on Youtube on this subject. Take a look at Junkman 2000's videos to start. He's not really selling anything, so that is not a factor in his recommendations. There are others, but his videos are a good place to start. Everything that he says regarding polishing clear coat applies to the acrylic enamel on our cars.

As to process, I am going to suggest that you do a thorough wash first, with a pretty aggressive soap. For my oxidized 1981 Mirada, I used dish soap. Everybody will tell you it is too aggressive. I will say that anything less would not remove the "black spots" I had all over the car. Everybody has their own process and their own experiences, but I wanted to get down to the bare paint, and remove everything on top of the paint, hence the aggressive soap. Dry the car.

After that, and I did not do this due to ignorance, is a chemical decontamination with some sort of iron remover. follwed by a tar remover. Carpro has Iron-X, and Tar-X, or the combination product, TRIX. Other vendors have equivalent products that may be as good or better, I am just calling out the most common products. Wash the chemical decontaminants off, dry the car, and clay bar the entire car (Junkman 2000video on this as well).

Next step is to machine polish the paint. First with a compound, and then with a polish. The compound will remove any old, deteriorated paint. The polish will bring back the shine. Suggest that you look at Meguair's Ultimate Compound and Ultimate Polish. They are available just about everywhere, not expensive, but quite good, and more user friendly than Meguiar's professional line. As always, there are other compounds and polishes that will work well and also be available to you. You will need a DA polisher and pads as well. Lower doxt polishers are the Porter Cable 7424XP, Griot's Garage GG6. and the Harbor Freight 6" Dual Action Polisher. The Harbor Freight is the cheapest, especially with Harbor Freight coupons, but needs some fixes for a long life. All should have their backing plates replaced with something that can be used with 5.5" pads. Don't use pads from Harbor Freight, get pads from Lake Country, Buff n Shine, or any other vendors.

You will need to wipe off the polish residues, and I suggest that you look at perhaps doing an IPA (isopropyl alcohol) wipe down. Lots of videos on youtube, and also dilution information on Autogeek.com

Then use a wax or sealant of choice. There are many waxes and sealants available, and many work well. Sealants tend to last longer, but are harder to apply and remove; waxes are easier to apply and remove, but don't last as long. Many, many vendors make good waxes and sealants.

You will need a surprisingly large amount of microfiber towels. You can find many vendors of microfiber towels, but the mass merchandiser towels (Costco, Walmart, any of the large auto parts chains) don't last long, and are best considered disposable.

The alternative is to have a pro detaiiler do an exterior only detail, either a one step or two step compound/polish and then either a wax or a sealant application. Saves the investment in stuff, but leaves you with nothing to do exterior maintenance going forward.
 

rcmaniac791

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Thanks for all the tips, guys. I'll have to look up junkman 2000, and I'll have to price out what it'll cost for me to get all the tools and chemicals myself vs. having a professional do it. I have done individual panels before, but it was all by hand; no power tools. It was also a couple of years ago.
 

BudW

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I have a problem with the paint on my ’86 5th Ave. It had a couple of minor issues with paint when I got it.
Now, the clear coat has come off of the top and hood and it looks like I have two cloudy racing strips on my metallic charcoal grey/silver paint.
I don’t think that will buff out . . .


But wait, it gets better. My home is on 1 acre of property with roughly 140 white oak trees. The other day (April 27), I heard a loud crack, then a crash. Then the dogs started barking out the window. I went out and looked and found this:
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This was a limb that fell from about 40 feet high, small end first by the R/F tire of my pickup, then the big end landed on my 5th Ave. My 5th’s first dent.

The first picture, you can just barely see the now white racing stripe on the roof.
BudW


Edit: BTW, the same limb didn’t damage the pickup much, but it did remove the driver’s side wiper blade and tossed it 30 foot away.
I drove the truck a couple days later, went to turn on my wipers and nothing was there except for the arm, I thought someone had stolen it or something – until my lawnmower found the blade, for me (thanks mower . . .)
 
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kkritsilas

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Budw: I don't think thet clear coat/base coat paint was being used by Ma Mopar in 1984; could always be wrong, though.. My 1980 Corboba and the 1981 Mirada CMX are both single stage acylic enamel. The paint is probably oxidized. or coming off entirely. If oxidized, you may be able to correct is by hand using Meguiar's #1 (medium cut) or #2 (fine cut) paint cleaners and a cloth. If it is oxidized only, you should see the colour come off on whatever cloth you are using. If it is coming off entirely, you will see primer. Be sure to throughly wash the area before using the Meguiar's products.

That is a nasty dent, sorry that happened. Doesn't look like a dent puller will fix that.
 

BudW

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You could be correct on the single vs. clear coat. I’m not a paint person, nor have I kept up on those things.

My 5th is an ’86 model and it “appears” the clear coat has come off – but what do I know.
I’m almost sure on what a body shop will tell me (ie: paint job) – and paint looks pretty good except on center of hood and roof.
BTW, cloudy white racing stripes doesn’t look good on a metallic dark silver 5th Ave.

If that limb fell another foot towards the truck – the truck would have suffered a lot more than (a) wiper blade damage (as well as possible roof damage to the 5th Ave).


By the way, 18 months earlier, I had my wagon parked in same location as the 5th Ave was parked at, when a lot bigger limb fell in same location (this limb was damaged from that earlier limb) from an ice storm. It hit the truck door, then rotated in place to under the truck. It bent the truck antenna mast, small dent on top of truck, and cracked the door mirror glass on the wagon (otherwise, didn’t even touch the car).
I’ll have to find that picture.

You can see where this limb was cracked – for a while.
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The good news is there are no more limbs in the area.
BudW
 

kkritsilas

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Well, the car is pre-mid 1990s, so clear coat was not in regular use. It could have been repainted with a base coat/clear coat by a previous owner. My assumption was factory original paint.

The paint could also be getting "sunburned: (my word for the condition). This happens when a car is exposed to bright sunshine for many, many years. I personally think it is caused by UV exposure, in a similar way to what happens to some plastic parts (most famously, the featherwood interior trim gong from brown to pink). The paint starts to chalk, taking on a rough texture and getting lighter in colour. My 1980 Cordoba has that so badly that some of the paint on the horizontal surfaces has completely worn away, leaving only the primer behind. It appears on the horizontal surfaces, as they are the most exposed to the UV light.

My 1981 Mirada was starting to look like that too, so I used the steps that I described above, and was surprised to see that the paint underneath all of the chalked out outer surface was in pretty good shape. Colour went from almost an orange to a much nicer medium red.
 

80mirada

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Chrysler first used base/clear, mostly solid colors, in 1984. Some colors could be either depending on car lime and producrion plant. My mom's 84 600ES was base/clear, my uncles 84 Diplomat was the same paint code, but was single stage acrylic. By 89 almost all colors were two stage across all vehicle lines, black, white and silver remained single stagr longer.
 

kkritsilas

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From Wikipedia:

"Clear coat was not used on solid colors until the early 1990's."

Article is here: Automotive paint - Wikipedia

in any case, the test is take a take a cloth, and some compound or polish, and rub it onto a small area of the car body. If the cloth ends up with the car's colour on it, it isn't clear coated (or in some cases, the clear coat has failed and you are seeing the base coat colour).

I feel fairly safe in believing that both the 5th Aves. in this thread are single stage.

Not doubting that there may have been some of the front drivers using clear coat paints earlier, most likely as an experiment. I have severe doubts that Chrysler would have retrofitted the lines building our cars (Js and Ms at athat point) with clear coat painting equipment. They could do that more easily when setting up new lines for the front drivers.
 
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80mirada

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1984 was the first production year Chrysler used base clear in regular production. Base/clear was phased into production with plant updates, new products, and changes in paint products.
Clear wasn't used on solid colors because it caused a "muddy effect" until better procedures and improved paint chemistry were developed.
 
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