What Color?

[Bruceynz]

Hi Guys,

I am after some color ideas to paint my Cordoba, it has been repainted and to be honest the paint is rubbish, touch it with dirty hands after working on the car and the marks stay in the paint, have no idea how it was painted in the past but its not very good. So the car is matte glacier blue I think it was called, pale blue anyway, has anyway got any eye popping colors they have painted their J bodies? I am thinking a dark blue with some sort of white side stripes, but still looking for any cool ideas other people have done! I have OG 100 spoke chrome wheels on the car at the moment and want to keep them I don't want to go black, not even sure if black is a color

Posts some pics or if there is a link already point me there to have a look please

Thanks
Bruce

 

[kkritsilas]

Bruce:

Is it the colour you don't like, or the actual paint job? Do you know what the factory paint color is for your car (look for it on the fender tags under the hood)? If it is just the paint job, it is possible that you don't have to change the colour, just have it repainted properly (sounds like something went wrong with the paint/paint job last time it was painted). If it is the color, and you want a dark blue, the common dark blue for the J bodies is Night Watch Blue (Paint Code SC9). I don't remember the year of your car, but I think it was the Frost Blue Metallic (paint code SC2). The Night Qatch Blue is a very dark, non-metallic blue. In the Dodge colour swatches that I have, there is also the TB6. Graphic Blue, which is a medium blue colour (shown for Omni, Sportsman (truck I assume) and Ramcharger (early SUV)). I have two exterior paint colour folders, both 1980, one for Dodge (Mirada) and one for Chrysler (Cordoba). They both show the SC9, Night Watch Blue as being available for both the Mirada and Cordoba.

I do have a 1982 Mirada in Night Watch Blue, but the paint is so faded due to the intense sun in Alberta, that sending a picture of my care would not only be useless, it would be misleading. I have tracked two down on the web which is a little closer to a real Night Watch Blue. There was also a member here who had a car that was more of a true Night Watch Blue; hope he is still around and will chime in. Sorry about the condition of the first car, but it was the best I could do quickly. My Mirada has the same white stripes as the first car, the first Mirada. The second car is probably the best representation of Night Watch Blue. I was not able to ding a picture of a Night Watch Blue Cordoba in my brief search.

Kostas

 

[Bruceynz]

Here is my car here, the car has been repainted in the USA and the paint shop said they have no idea what they have done but the paint is soft, you can mark it with your finger nail and you can't polish it, anything you put on it leaves marks in it. It stains the paint.

 

[Jack Meoff]

Here's a list of factory colors for 1983.

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?make=Chrysler&con=k&year=1983&rows=50

What's the code on your fender tag?

 

[kkritsilas]

No paint expert, but from a layman's understanding, it sounds like they either didn't put in enough catalyst, or left it out altogether (I am makeing the assumption that the paint is some sort of catalyzed paint, iether one coat or two coat), or it was an older catalyst that was past its best before date. There are people on the board who will be able to say better. as they understand paint better than I do. They can also advise what is the best thing to do (try to save it, or repaint).

If you do have a blue interior, Night Watch Blue would look great with the white half vinyl roof and the nice condition of the chrome work and wire wheels on your car. White pin stripes would look great, too.

Kostas

 

[Bruceynz]

yes I have the dark blue interior, I quite like the dark blue myself, ford had a blue called "Cobalt" I always thought looked nice.

Here is an aussie ford on Cobalt blue

http://www.boostclassifieds.com.au/database/carsforsale/files/1994_Ford_Falcon_12391182.jpg

 

[kkritsilas]

That is a nice blue colour as well. I think the Night Watch Blue is more of a darker colour More pop on the Ford colour, but it may or may not work with your interior colour, only you can judge that. The Night Watch Blue, will work with your interior colour; they came from the factory that way.

If you are intent on putting on the white pinstripes, they would work better with the Night Watch Blue.

Kostas

P.S. While we are posting up pictures of various shades of blue, it must be kept in mind that the various shades will look different on different computers due to variations in the way that different monitors and video cards display colours. That is why the best way to decide on a colour is in person on a car, or at least in person with a real paint chip. The site that Captain Caravelle pointed to has the Night Watch Blue/SC9 paint and a block of sample colour, but that block is showing up as black on my screen. I know what it looks like due to the paint chips that I have here, but I could not rely on the web site to show the correct colour.

 

[efriedrich]

It sounds like they either didn't catalyze it to the correct ratio or they used old catalyst.

 

[Bruceynz]

the guy I bought it off said it was painted 20 years ago, so it got a repaint when it was about 12 years old. Just don't know if we can paint over top of it or have to strip it all off, won't be hard to get it all off with paint stripper I wouldn't think, not about to paint yet just working things out, my friend is a car painter and is living overseas and returning to NZ at some point, thats when I can get it painted.

 

[kkritsilas]

Again, this is my understanding, but if old catalyst, or not enough catalyst was used, you cannot restart the catalytic process it to get it to harden up. The catalyzer starts a chemical reaction; the paint is sprayed while the catalytic reaction is on going, but not completed. The paint must be on the car by the time the catalytic reaction completes, which is when the hardening process completes. Your paint didn't have enough catalyzer, or had old enough catalyzer, that the catalyzer was used up before the paint had a chance to harden completely.

Do you know if the car has a single coat paint, or a colour/clear coat type paint? If it is clear coat over a colour coat, then there is some possibility that the color coat can be taken off without taking off the colour coat, but this is very delicate to do' you would have to take off the clear coat without damaging the colour coat. It will be far more preferrable *and with a single coat paint, the only way) to take the car down to bare metal and go from there.

Best thing to do is to ask you car painting friend, he will know exactly what is going on, and make recommendations.

 

[Bruceynz]

My friend was on holiday in NZ, he came over and took a look at it and said it needed a buff, but when he buffed it the paint came off, he said it looked like to him that the clear coat has the painted mixed into it. I am no expert but my car painter friend said I would need to go the paint shop and find out what we could do, since the paint I feel is shot I thought this is the time to change the color or paint back to original color. I think the darker blue like nightwatch would look good with the white roof, chrome wire wheels and the some white pinstripes on the sides. But you also have the issue of painting everywhere on the car, door shuts, inside the trunk etc. If I paint back to factory then all I have to do is paint the outside as the door shuts and trunk are all nice and shiny. The factory colors is a lot more rich looking than the current color.

 

[kkritsilas]

If you are OK with the factory coloir, I would repaint it that colour. As you said, painting the door jambs and all of the openings is a giant hassle, and equally giant expense. Assuming that the paint in those areas is in good shape (i.e. doesn't have the soft paint issue), you could just paint the outer body. I think the paint colours would match pretty well, as the openings/door jambs don't fade as quickly as the outer surfaces do (although they do fade some due to chemical aging).

Just for reference, the original paint was acrylic enamel, no clear coat. It may be really hard to find a shop that sprays that these days, though, so if you find a good paint shop that wants to do colour coat/clear coat, and they are uncomfortable with the acrylic enamel, let them spray the colour/clear. It is better to get a really good paint job that is not historically accurate, than to get a bad paint job.

Did you ever find the paint code for your car?

Kostas

 

[Bruceynz]

Paint color is VC4

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?comm=vc4&rows=50&button=Search

 

[Monkeyed]

My friend was on holiday in NZ, he came over and took a look at it and said it needed a buff, but when he buffed it the paint came off, he said it looked like to him that the clear coat has the painted mixed into it. I am no expert but my car painter friend said I would need to go the paint shop and find out what we could do, since the paint I feel is shot I thought this is the time to change the color or paint back to original color. I think the darker blue like nightwatch would look good with the white roof, chrome wire wheels and the some white pinstripes on the sides. But you also have the issue of painting everywhere on the car, door shuts, inside the trunk etc. If I paint back to factory then all I have to do is paint the outside as the door shuts and trunk are all nice and shiny. The factory colors is a lot more rich looking than the current color.

Just as food for thought, I've seen a few cars that had just the outside painted a different color, and left the door jams alone, with the doors shut, you would never know, and as long as it's a similar color, ie. light blue jams, dark blue exterior, it makes it stand out a bit when the doors open, but doesn't look too bad, then the doors are closed again...

 

[Bruceynz]

Ok here is a photo of the door shut, photo doesn't show the color change as much as it is but you can see the difference in color. You can see the over spray on the rubber at the top.

 

[kkritsilas]

Keeping in mind the point that I made regarding colour accuracy, it looksk like the exterior is almost a light grey or silver colour, while the door jamb is light/medium blue. Between the color difference, the softness of the paint, and the overspray, I am inclined to think this was a low buck paint job just to sell the car.

If you weren't a stickler for complete match up, you could do as Monkeyed suggested, or perhaps just paint the outside and the door jambs only dark blue, and leave the trunk/hood openings and undeside of the lids their current colour.

Kostas

 

[Bruceynz]

When my friend looked at it he said it looked like it had been painted to sell it, when I queried the guy I bought it off he said it has been painted 20 years ago, having said that it wasn't until after I had bought it he told me reverse did not work, hmmmmmm and he never told me about the dent in the front fender he also never mention it was leaking water, it would be unlikely it just started doing it out the rear frost plugs, it drops about a pint of water over a week. The photos were all taking to not show any of the bad. But I have got what I have now and I have to work with it. It will come up good when I am finished and I know that the money I spend on it I will not get back, just didn't expect to be pulling the engine out and repainting a car so soon. The rear drum brakes needed a rebuild, the idler arm ball joint was worn out, have those fixed now.

 

[kkritsilas]

Bruce:

I'm pretty sure that the frost plugs can be replaced without pulling the engine out. Get the brass ones, they tend to stay water tight better. The seller seems to have been real dis-honest, and took advantage of the fact that you were not able to do an in person inspection. A hazard of being so far away.

I think your first step is to address the rear drum brakes first, then the frost plugs should be replaced. While the paint job is really visible and you see it every time you look at the car, it can probably be left until last.

None of use will ever recover the money we put into our cars. They are not considered collectible right now, and may not for a long time. If you get one of these cars and get it into good shape, do it because the car appeals to you, looks unique, drives well, and is as dependable as the sunrise. These are NOT, at this point, investment or "flip" type vehicles because others do not see them as desirable. There may, or many not, come a time in the future where this changes, but that time has yet to arrive, or may never do so. I have 3 J bodies, got 2 of them for $500 each, and one for $800 (all Canadian dollars, but when the Canadian dollar was just at or slightly above the US dollar). Each car will need $5K, or more, for mechanical work, and at least that much for paint/body. At the end, they will not bring anything close to the money spent. There are other Mopars that are like that, the late B bodies (1st. gen. Cordoba, 95-on Chargers, Furys, Magnum GTs/XEs, etc.) for example Doesn't change the fact that they, like our cars, are actually good, well engineered cars that can be very nice to drive, own, and look at.

Kostas

 

[Bruceynz]

I have rebuilt the the brakes already, I had to as part of the law here is before the car goes on the road brakes are checked, so I replaced the wheel cylinders, shoes and springs. While I was at it I fitted KYB shocks all round, fitted the 215 x 60 x 17 inch wheels.

I have sitting in the USA a set of addco anti sway bars, XXX714 heads, 600cfm holley and some weather stripping. I have in my garage in NZ sum 6900 cam, lifters, springs, double roller timing chain, edelbrock performer intake, new dizzy with orange module and a Holley 1850s

I think my car is cool and unique, I would tend to disagree a little, the prices I think are on the move, I have seen Cordoba's from $1500 to $10,000 on the list and any number dollar value in between. Miradas are cool looking cars and the Cordoba LS with the cross hair nose cone look good.

Anyway how can you change the frost plug in the back of the engine with the engine in place, I was told you can't get enough clearance by dropping the auto trans. Fill me in on how I do it.

Thanks
Bruce

 

[kkritsilas]

Extrapolating from the Factory Service manual, 1980 version, and they are assuming the car is up on a lift, and that there are tranny jacks available:

1. loosen/remove the front engine mounts;
2. Loosen the rear engine mounts and both the engine rear cross member and tranny cross member;

This should allow for enough clearance to get to the rear frost plugs. It is essential that there be a lot of support for the engine from below, as you want it to angle down in a controlled manner. What I am glossing over here is things like an exhaust system, tranny cooler lines, tranny dipstick tubes, etc., getting in the way,

Idea is to reverse the process by which the car was assembled. Body was dropped on to the K member/chassis that had the engine and transmission already in place. The only time that the engine necessarily comes out from the top is when you want to separate the engine and the transmission. The above is an extrapolation from the 1980 Factory service manual, page 9-27. It is much more detailed, and calls for things like draining the transmission, etc. It may be just as easy to remove the engine from the car if you are going to be replacing heads and camshafts anyway, so fixing the frost plugs at the same time will still be easier if the engine is out on a stand; but the above should work if all you are going to do is fix the rear frost plugs, and that you must deal with a leak from the rear frost plug.

Link to a factory picture:

http://www.allpar.com/model/cordoba.html

This is from 1975, which was the B body Cordoba (using the traditional, longitudinal front torsion bars). The F, M, and J bodies used the transverse torsion bar front suspesion, which was optimized for this dropping of the body onto the engine/transmission (there were fewer follow on steps, as this not only put in the engine and transmission, but almost the entire front suspension as well). The improved manufacturing efficiency, along with the "big car ride" from a smaller car was what caused the change over to the transverse torsion bar front suspension.

Kostas