Won't shift into reverse until througly warmed up!

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My 1985 Fifth Ave. that I recently got from an estate will not shift into reverse until about 15 minutes of driving! :angry1: Could just a dirty/clogged filter cause this? I don't know much about automatic transmissions, but the Torkflites seem pretty good, I've only had one rebuilt out of the 4 cars I had that had them. I think this one is a 904. I read in an old manual that to adjust the "Low & Reverse band" you loosen the locking nut and then torque the adjusting screw to 72 inch pounds, back it off 4 turns from that and then tighten back. I am hesistant to try that since I don't have an accurrate inch pound torque wrench!
I know I could take it to a transmission shop but they will probably say it needs a total rebuild!
I know some of you do this sort of thing routinely, so I would really appreciate your advice and tips!

Thanks,
Bruce
 
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Thanks MiradaMegaCab. Just curious, why the ATF+4? Is it thicker? I thought the torqueflites all used Dexron?

Thanks again,
Bruce
 

MiradaMegacab

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You can top off with Dexron. For a fluid change, use ATF4.

I always use Mopar trans fluid in my street cars. The one time I used dexron, I melted the clutch plate in the torque converter.

In my race 727 (non-lockup) I use Type F designed for fords.

Your gonna get alot of opinions from people but why not use what Ma Mopar specs out for the intended application?
 

ramenth

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You can top off with Dexron. For a fluid change, use ATF4.

I always use Mopar trans fluid in my street cars. The one time I used dexron, I melted the clutch plate in the torque converter.

In my race 727 (non-lockup) I use Type F designed for fords.

Your gonna get alot of opinions from people but why not use what Ma Mopar specs out for the intended application?

Not just that, but Dexron was really only recommended for top off anyway. Before ATF+ became standard fair, 7176 was name of the game. Then that was replaced with the ATF's consecutively.

Truthfully, to me, it sounds like you're not getting enough pump pressure. Reverse is usually the first thing to go, even with low fluid.

Try giving it a flush and a filter. It's gonna take a couple of cases of trans fluid, but you can do it el-cheapo and give it a try before you hafta spend long green on a build.

Disconnect the cooler hoses and run 'em into a bucket then crank the car. I've seen 'em pump out in just a few seconds. This empties the convertor and the lines, too. Hook your lines back up and fill. Run to operating temp and slowly -with foot on brake - shift through the gears. Top off like you normally would. Then, pull the hoses, and repeat to flush that fluid out. Basically, you're doing this to pick up and debris a flush it out, removes traces of any "off-brand" fluid which may have used over the years, and it saves you from taking a bath when you drop the pan. You can buy a can of "cooler flush" at your favorite parts store. Blow that through your cooler before you put your lines back on for the last time.

Change your filter and adjust your bands. Important! Bands have to be adjusted with every trans service. Personally, I never use a pan gasket when putting the pan back on. Permatex makes a grey RTV gasket maker that dries under torque. Use it instead of the black and throw the neoprene gasket over your shoulder and forget you ever saw it. Hell, Chrysler doesn't even use a gasket on the assembly line.

Refill with ATF4, let it get to operating temp and, again, slowly shift through the gears. Top off per the dipstick marks and test drive.

Will it work? Maybe, maybe not. After years of abuse (no one ever thinks to service the transmission every 30,000 miles- but they'll change engine oil every 3000 miles) really, for less than a $100 in material, it's worth a shot to give it a try.
 
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Thanks for the explanations MiradaMegacab, Bremereric, and Ramenth. I guess I was really behind the times on the types of transmission fluids! I will do the flush-out, change the filter, and add fresh ATF+4 and keep my fingers crossed! I hope to try it this weekend.

Thanks again, with your help I might get this old '85 Fifth Ave.
running decently!
Bruce
 

slant6billy

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My dad's 83 5th Ave did the same. It used to delay grabbing reverse. The delay got worse and worse until reverse was not grabbing at all. It also used to slam so hard into reverse, that you might think the driveshaft was going to shatter or the rear was explode. The rear differential eventually got too sloppy as well due to that slamming. The ATF fluid was old and generic at that. We went to a ATF3 and got back much of the trans. We did the band adjustment too. We were not perfect, but drained off some 2.5 quarts a few months later and saw improvement. Again, was not perfect but driveable and that was in 1998. Good luck man
 

slant6billy

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When I stated "We drained off 2.5 quarts". I meant that we did a fluid transfusion and added 2.5 of fresh ATF3 after draining off the 2.5 quarts out of the trans.
 

Jack Meoff

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Had a 89 Craprice once
It lost reverse too
But that's cause it was a chebbie tranny
Meaning it was a POS
After the royal flush hopefully she's running better.
You stand a far better chance of that being the problem with a 904 than a steaming triple coiler of a GM piece of crap.

Can you tell I like chebbie's?
 

Erics5th

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My '84 shop manual recommends Dexron II. I've always used Dex/Mercon (a replacement for transmissions that used any varity of Dexron) and never had a problem.
 

ramenth

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My '84 shop manual recommends Dexron II. I've always used Dex/Mercon (a replacement for transmissions that used any varity of Dexron) and never had a problem.

Yep, it recommends DexII.

Then a TSB was released going retroactive to replace all trans fluids with 7176.

Then another TSB came out going retroactive to replace all trans fluids with ATF

Then another TSB came out going retroactive to replace all trans fluids with... you get the picture.

Basically, following the trail of TSB's you'll find that AFT4 is now the direct replacement transmission fluid for stock transmissions.

Over the years the transmission fluids for all manufacturers have been engineered to meet the specs per transmission and has the specs have tightened up, so to has the refining of the oils. Which is why it's such a bad idea to use one of the transmission fluids advertised to "work with all manufacturers." Merc5 and AFT4 don't mix. And a fluid that advertises as working with all manufacturers and still meet the demands of the transmission (like DexII/Merc) it has to give up something in trade off to meet the specs of another manufacturer.

Hence one of the reasons Chrysler worked with the oil manufacturers to develop 7176 and make it retroactive in replacing Dex/Merc. Really it was an oil specifically designed to work in Chrysler transmissions without any trade-offs to other manufacturers. And since it's now been replaced through the line with AFT4...

Trust me, next trans service you need to do, get all the Dex out and replace it with AFT4. Dex isn't a problem, but you'll notice an improvement later into the trans service with AFT4.
 
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Erics5th

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I've only driven my 5th about 500 miles so far this year, little over 1200 miles last year. I'm not going to sweat it.
 
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Well I didn't get a chance to do the fluid & filter change on the Fifth; had to do emergency work on an old Buick! yuk!
But I really appreciate Ramenth's explanation about the TSBs on the transmission fluid going to ATF+4. It really makes sense with all the advancements in oil.
I can't seem to keep up with all the T S Bulletins; is there a site that posts them for Chrysler/Mopar?

Bruce
 

slant6billy

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I posted months back about the ATF4 in my van. It shifts great, but had started to leak a few months after wards. I had syphoned 4 quarts off (of the old stuff) and added 4 qts of ATF4. It got a drip at the speed sensor and front seal at the torqueconverter. Now this van sat quite abit before I bought it in 2008. It is a 1995 dodge with a 3.9 so it has the non overdrive automatic. She only had 70thousand miles on the odometer so that is about less than 6000 miles per year. My thinking was the atf4 washed the grit out of several spots in the trans. Again, she still shifts great- better than the 97 SS/T with the 46 RE.
 
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Well it's been about a year since I changed the trans. filter, put in new ATF+4 fluid and adjusted the bands, and my Fifth Ave. was still not going into reverse until warmed -up with 20 minutes of driving. Then we had our first cool weekend in October and low and behold the car started shifting immediately into reverse without a warm-up!! And it has been going into reverse properly ever since then! I guess the cooler temperature caused a seal to shrink or dislodged some gunk?? Has anyone heard of something like this happening before?

Bruce
 

MiradaMegacab

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Definitely sounds like there was low line pressure.
Perhaps some gunk in the valve bodies reverse circut dislodged.
 

realgone58

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My dad's 83 5th Ave did the same. It used to delay grabbing reverse. The delay got worse and worse until reverse was not grabbing at all. It also used to slam so hard into reverse, that you might think the driveshaft was going to shatter or the rear was explode. The rear differential eventually got too sloppy as well due to that slamming. The ATF fluid was old and generic at that. We went to a ATF3 and got back much of the trans. We did the band adjustment too. We were not perfect, but drained off some 2.5 quarts a few months later and saw improvement. Again, was not perfect but driveable and that was in 1998. Good luck man

I've got this same problem. It started out by a delay then banging hard into reverse. Then it got worse. If you touched the gas at all in reverse or have to back up a slight hill, it will kick in and out and grind like hell. Sometimes no reverse at all! All three forward gears work nice an crisp as they should. Fluid is red and full, hence I didn't change it yet. I think I will try a fluid/filter change and switch to ATF-4 as everyone is recommending now. I'd like to adjust the bands. How do you do that?
 
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