American Muscle cars thinks Roadrunner Volare's are a mistake
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slant6billy
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I've substituted the G rated edited for television version and wrote a novel ,but chopped it down severely:
For all the haters of the F - body mopar, the sneers of disrespect, eye rolls..... I could go on and on. You all know the type. I question their manhood. So here it is when I really need to put a hater in his place:
Don't burn down the whorehouse just because your ______ is small.
Insert any male anatomy slang term at will.
I also follow with,\
It really must suck when the hookers laugh at ya junk?
For all the haters of the F - body mopar, the sneers of disrespect, eye rolls..... I could go on and on. You all know the type. I question their manhood. So here it is when I really need to put a hater in his place:
Don't burn down the whorehouse just because your ______ is small.
Insert any male anatomy slang term at will.
I also follow with,\
It really must suck when the hookers laugh at ya junk?
Jack Meoff
Mopar Maniac
Lol.....classic!
aspen77rt
Well-Known Member
3200 Seems a little light in stock trim
http://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/1976/661850/dodge_aspen_rt_coupe_360_v-8_torqueflite.html
http://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/1976/661850/dodge_aspen_rt_coupe_360_v-8_torqueflite.html
Aspen500
Well-Known Member
I agree. My Aspen in stock form (slant 6, 4 speed O/D) weighed in at right around 3,490 lbs.
It's really a pig now. Weighed it recently,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,3,940 lbs and with me in it 4,070 lbs, give or take a couple. Holy crap, it sure adds up quick doesn't it?!
kkritsilas
Well-Known Member
Lets do this again:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Aspen
shows the base coupe at 3200. Add 100 lbs for a V8.
Allpar't article on the F body is here:
http://www.allpar.com/model/aspen.html
directly from that article:
"Weight: an empty F body weighed between 3200 and 3500 pounds, with the V8s being about 110 pounds heavier than the Sixes. The wagons weighed the most, and the coupes were the lightest. Generally, the 4 door was about 75 pounds heavier than the coupe, while the wagon was 200 pounds heavier than the 4 door."
I read that to be that a six cylinder F body coupe was 3200 lbs., the V8 at about 3310, fitting in exactly with the Wikipedia citation. I said about 100 lbs weight increase for the V8, Allpar says 110 llbs., I stand corrected. I don't know where you are weighing your cars, but I would be more inclined to believe that Allpar and Wikipedia than the other sites that have been pointed to, and logically it seems to fit (see my previous point about the shorter wheelbase in relation to weight, using the J body car as the starting point). The http://www.automobile-catalog.com/ca...rqueflite site has a ton of inaccuracies, from the 318 2V/BBL engine having 170 HP ( sounds suspiciously high), to the use of theoretical performance numbers. I think I will stick with the Wikipedia/Allpar numbers; while not always perfect, they have a much better feel for the cars than a European site (www.automobile-catalog.com is European) would.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Aspen
shows the base coupe at 3200. Add 100 lbs for a V8.
Allpar't article on the F body is here:
http://www.allpar.com/model/aspen.html
directly from that article:
"Weight: an empty F body weighed between 3200 and 3500 pounds, with the V8s being about 110 pounds heavier than the Sixes. The wagons weighed the most, and the coupes were the lightest. Generally, the 4 door was about 75 pounds heavier than the coupe, while the wagon was 200 pounds heavier than the 4 door."
I read that to be that a six cylinder F body coupe was 3200 lbs., the V8 at about 3310, fitting in exactly with the Wikipedia citation. I said about 100 lbs weight increase for the V8, Allpar says 110 llbs., I stand corrected. I don't know where you are weighing your cars, but I would be more inclined to believe that Allpar and Wikipedia than the other sites that have been pointed to, and logically it seems to fit (see my previous point about the shorter wheelbase in relation to weight, using the J body car as the starting point). The http://www.automobile-catalog.com/ca...rqueflite site has a ton of inaccuracies, from the 318 2V/BBL engine having 170 HP ( sounds suspiciously high), to the use of theoretical performance numbers. I think I will stick with the Wikipedia/Allpar numbers; while not always perfect, they have a much better feel for the cars than a European site (www.automobile-catalog.com is European) would.
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My F body 78 RR does NOT have a single "volare" marking on it either. As far as what options it has I have no idea ( police and such)
I've had 3 B bodies before this. this is my 1st F body.
Is it a muscle car? Now yes. Off the lot no.
Last week I had a "discussion" with a local guy that had 8 B bodies in his yard right down the street from me. I stopped because I saw the grill of a plymouth poking out from behind a few cars and a fence.
He had NOTHING good to say about my car due to the fact that it was a F body.
Yet all his cars were in different states of non running repair and all either station wagons or 4 doors.
He even stated that he could put roadrunner decals on the plymouth station wagon he had sitting and have a better roadrunner then what I have.
The cars of old are GREAT, all of them. Nothing screams mid evil badassery like a B body Mopar though.
I agree the guy in the video is un educated and bias just like the guy I talked to last week.
I agree haters gonna hate. I bought my car because I like it and I wanted it.
I had/have the money to buy what I want. and looked at 5 cars in a month. 3 were roadrunners. I picked the one I bought because the wife and I liked it. I could have bought a 73 with the 340 and slap shift for the same price and it needed the same work.
or a 75 with less work and same price.
I agree also that the newer F bodies do have bigger advantages like breaking and such.
But they also have draw backs like body parts that are near impossible to get.
Need a B body part? order it.
Need a F body part search High and low for it.
I'm talking body parts as you all know.
Rich
I've had 3 B bodies before this. this is my 1st F body.
Is it a muscle car? Now yes. Off the lot no.
Last week I had a "discussion" with a local guy that had 8 B bodies in his yard right down the street from me. I stopped because I saw the grill of a plymouth poking out from behind a few cars and a fence.
He had NOTHING good to say about my car due to the fact that it was a F body.
Yet all his cars were in different states of non running repair and all either station wagons or 4 doors.
He even stated that he could put roadrunner decals on the plymouth station wagon he had sitting and have a better roadrunner then what I have.
The cars of old are GREAT, all of them. Nothing screams mid evil badassery like a B body Mopar though.
I agree the guy in the video is un educated and bias just like the guy I talked to last week.
I agree haters gonna hate. I bought my car because I like it and I wanted it.
I had/have the money to buy what I want. and looked at 5 cars in a month. 3 were roadrunners. I picked the one I bought because the wife and I liked it. I could have bought a 73 with the 340 and slap shift for the same price and it needed the same work.
or a 75 with less work and same price.
I agree also that the newer F bodies do have bigger advantages like breaking and such.
But they also have draw backs like body parts that are near impossible to get.
Need a B body part? order it.
Need a F body part search High and low for it.
I'm talking body parts as you all know.
Rich
Aspen500
Well-Known Member
Don't forget, it wasn't all that many years ago hat getting B-body sheetmetal was all but impossible (and a-body, e-body).
IMO, what is a muscle car? It's what ever you want it to be whether it came new like that or you built it like that. Ony person who has to like the car, is the one that owns it. I'll never get over the people that call themselves "Mopar guys" but what they really mean is only if it was built between 1964 and 1971. Anything else and they look down their noses at it. Funny thing is, half the muscle cars that exist today weren't when they were built. A lot of them were S6 and 318 cars that now have big blocks, Hemi's or 340's along with all the other things. There's probably more 'Cudas now than were originally built. A lot of 'Cudas started life as Barracudas for example. Has to be. Figure all the ones built in '70-'74, then subtract a crap load of them that were either wrecked, rusted away or otherwise scrapped long ago and the numbers don't add up. So, is a '69 Roadrunner that started life as a S6 Satellite really a muscle car (going by the same mind set that says a modified F-body isn't a muscle car)? No it's not but those same turn up their snobby noses at f-body Mopar guys will say the cloned RR is. I just don't get it..............
Side note: The f-body syndrome. A few years ago I called Legendary (pre internet) to ask about upholstery for my car. The ads say "Chrysler Products 1957-1979". The a**hole on the other end of the line, in laughing snotty manner says "no, we don't have anything for a car like THAT". Well f*** you very much, I was just asking. I notice even today, they have a limited selection of f-body seat upholstery but you will notice, there's no mention of it in their magazine ads. Only says A-B-C and E body.
One more rant. How is a '79 Camaro considered a muscle car when a '79 Aspen R/T 360 (both stock) is quicker in the 1/4 mile? Also, our cars are always joked about like "the cars that rusted on the dealers lot". Well, maybe the first year with the fenders and such. I vividly remember in the early '80's seeing late '70's Camaro's with the 1/4's flopping in the wind, bottoms of the doors gone, front fenders behind the wheels gone while Aspen's and Volares were just starting to show rot in the lower 1/4's and front fenders yet the Camaro is said to be a great car and an Aspen is a POS. Huh??????????????? Anyways, rant over.
IMO, what is a muscle car? It's what ever you want it to be whether it came new like that or you built it like that. Ony person who has to like the car, is the one that owns it. I'll never get over the people that call themselves "Mopar guys" but what they really mean is only if it was built between 1964 and 1971. Anything else and they look down their noses at it. Funny thing is, half the muscle cars that exist today weren't when they were built. A lot of them were S6 and 318 cars that now have big blocks, Hemi's or 340's along with all the other things. There's probably more 'Cudas now than were originally built. A lot of 'Cudas started life as Barracudas for example. Has to be. Figure all the ones built in '70-'74, then subtract a crap load of them that were either wrecked, rusted away or otherwise scrapped long ago and the numbers don't add up. So, is a '69 Roadrunner that started life as a S6 Satellite really a muscle car (going by the same mind set that says a modified F-body isn't a muscle car)? No it's not but those same turn up their snobby noses at f-body Mopar guys will say the cloned RR is. I just don't get it..............
Side note: The f-body syndrome. A few years ago I called Legendary (pre internet) to ask about upholstery for my car. The ads say "Chrysler Products 1957-1979". The a**hole on the other end of the line, in laughing snotty manner says "no, we don't have anything for a car like THAT". Well f*** you very much, I was just asking. I notice even today, they have a limited selection of f-body seat upholstery but you will notice, there's no mention of it in their magazine ads. Only says A-B-C and E body.
One more rant. How is a '79 Camaro considered a muscle car when a '79 Aspen R/T 360 (both stock) is quicker in the 1/4 mile? Also, our cars are always joked about like "the cars that rusted on the dealers lot". Well, maybe the first year with the fenders and such. I vividly remember in the early '80's seeing late '70's Camaro's with the 1/4's flopping in the wind, bottoms of the doors gone, front fenders behind the wheels gone while Aspen's and Volares were just starting to show rot in the lower 1/4's and front fenders yet the Camaro is said to be a great car and an Aspen is a POS. Huh??????????????? Anyways, rant over.
kkritsilas
Well-Known Member
For me, a "muscle Car" is defined as a car intended to be a high performance car, and has something to back that up mechanically (so tape stripes and graphics alone don't do it). The F body Road Runner does, whether the "no muscle cars were made after 1970" crowd agrees or not. In their day, the F body Road Runner was as fast as a Z28 Canaro or L82 Corvette, which are considered to be muscle cars.
The definition of muscle cars should be based on.performance, not the period if time the cars were built. Can anybody really argue that A Hellcat Challenger us NOT s muscle car? In a similar way, an F body Road Runner, being as fast as, or faster, than other muscle cars of the day, is a muscle car.
The definition of muscle cars should be based on.performance, not the period if time the cars were built. Can anybody really argue that A Hellcat Challenger us NOT s muscle car? In a similar way, an F body Road Runner, being as fast as, or faster, than other muscle cars of the day, is a muscle car.
aspen77rt
Well-Known Member
Even a K-car can be a muscle car....:toothy12:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBVGOLADcaA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zABEdxQo08U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBVGOLADcaA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zABEdxQo08U
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Thanks.
Now I can't threaten my wife with a K-car anymore when I work on her subaru.
Rich
slant6billy
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Uh oh..... smoke from my ears, glassy look in my eyes............ Fbody coupe with a Hellcat powerplant. I'm going to get nothing done for a week thinking about that. I need some rich ahole to wreck his hellcat, so I can take the heart from the cat. Hell, Joe put the new Gen Hemi in the blue Mirada.......it would only be the next level in the game. 707 hp Volare Coupe..... I am digging the sound of that. And just think how pissed off the world will be watching Volare tail lights get smaller. Call it the "F-ed Cat"
Jack Meoff
Mopar Maniac
I like it!
kkritsilas
Well-Known Member
Completely off the hook, I love it. Going to take cubic dollars to have happen, though. I'd really love to see this done, if just to see how the builders prevent the chassis from pretzelling (is that a word?), and how they're going to cool the Hellcat engine.
Kostas
dodger roger
Well-Known Member
the fastest muscle car in 1978 wasn't even a car ! detroits fastest in 1978 dodge lil red express building cool trucks before trucks were cool
Aspen500
Well-Known Member
I always thought that was so cool. A Dodge truck quicker (and WAY better looking) than the "all mighty" Corvette right off the showroom floor. Classic!
ramenth
Well-Known Member
Here's an idea: instead of trusting a website, weigh the f***** on certified scales.
You know, real world experience and all that. You know, like listening to the guy who said his F-body weighed #3400 and now weighs 3900#. But why believe him when a website can tell you something different. Like a B-body weighing in at over #3900 when I already told you my big block powered four door hit the scales at 3800#.
As for your previous arguments I have to ask: what's your experience driving a B-body? Any at all, limited time, full time? I'm curious.
Here's what you're missing: rather a big block fits in an F, M, or J, the point is comparing apples to oranges. The F-body platformed cars were never designed to be big block cars, just as the A-bodies weren't. Sure you can put a B or RB engine in between the rails, but it upsets the balance of the car. Being designed as B and RB capable from the factory, the B-'s and E-'s were designed for that extra weight on the nose. They don't plow and get scary when you enter into a curve.
I've had several F-'s over the years and one of my favorite cars I've owned is that M-body sitting under the carport. Taking that into account you'll see that I'm a proponent of the platform. But, that being said, a lot of assumptions you're making on the B-body I take as what you've read on the internet or in magazines.
It's not about what you can do with the car. It's about what the car did out of the box. Factory stock. Taking that into account, the F-body Road Runner is no where in the category of the '68's. The '68's were big block out of the box. The '78's were, what, 318 two barrels with the capability of going smog choked 360? Not even in the same subject line. At the time the '78 was built, performance didn't matter, just the styling and the appeal of it. I love the looks of the F-bodies with the spoilers and the flares, but when you get right down to it, that's all it really was, just the looks. Doesn't matter if it came with a rear sway bar and big brakes on the rear or not.
The '79 Z28 is hardly a muscle car, either. That was in the same category as the '78 Road Runner. Just a stripe kit. And a Corvette is a sports car, not a muscle car.
As for the Hellcat, that's in a category all it's own. It's hardly a muscle car. It's refined. It's meant to help the driver control all the horsepower, just as most of today's high horsepower cars are. Traction control, electronic steering control, big brakes all the way around. Driving a muscle car is a primitive experience. The car is raw power, untamed. It's a visceral experience where the car will attempt to beat you into submission. It's a beast waiting to be uncaged. I love my Diplomat and I've had a lot of fun in the F-bodies over the years, but I've yet to feel that same thing when it comes to any of them, box stock.
You're not going to get that from anything built in the late '70's coming box stock.
kkritsilas
Well-Known Member
You are right, I don't own a B body, and I have only ridden in a couple of them. No, we did not take them to the scales.
All that aside, and even if we throw out all of the weights from all of the websites, let me ask the following questions:
1. How does an F body mysteriously put on 400-500 lbs of weight over time? Is this rust (that is a lot of rust)? Please note that a big block Cordoba comes in at about 3800-3900 lbs.
2. I do own 3 J bodies, I have real world weights on all of them. My cars come in at 3500-3550 lbs. Please answer the following, from this point:
a. How does an slant 6 F body, which is smaller (coupe) weigh the same as a larger bodied car, considering that the vast majority of the components are the same (engine, transmission, K member, front suspension, and rear axle), and my car is loaded to the gills?
b. I am missing nothing. While I have yet to do this, from what I understand, the Big Block in an F or J (which I have plans for) does not cause the car to plow, nor to become unbalanced. Done properly, a Big Block can be brought down to about a 100-150 lbs increase over a factory small block, 20-40 lbs of that can be reduced and help re-balance the car by moving the battery to the trunk. this is NOT speculation, there are more than a few F bodies with big blocks around, There are even some j Bodies around with big blocks. Not only doable, but quite usable, as well.
As for why I use websites to get weights, it si because I don't have an F body handy to weigh myself, just like I don't have a a 1968-1970 Road Runner for the same purpose, nor do I have every muscle car ever made to be able to do the same. If you do, then more power to you. The fact that I use logic, and multiple web sties that are fairly well trusted to get my numbers from is due to my not having infinite amounts of money and space to present real world arguments which is a failing on my part. And my response was due to somebody else posting a site that had incorrect weights on it. As for the person who said his slant 6 F body weighed 3490, and has mysteriously gained 400-500 lbs over the years, I plainly and simply don't understand that.
As for A bodies not having big blocks, please take the time to look up the Dodge Dart GTS with a 383. Unless Dodge had decided to put in a Chevy stroker in the late 1960s, it would have been a Big Block Mopar. And no, I don't own one of those either, just so you know.
As for the 1978-1979 Z28 not being a muscle car, please try to take that to a Chevy board, and see what type of response you get there with that statement. This is as arbitrary a statement as the one about the F body note being a muscle car. it may not be a muscle car to you, but I bet that there are plenty of people who would disagree with you.
If as you say, the Corvette is not a muscle car, but a sports car, then why did the same show, "American Muscle" do an episode on it? If we are to abandon all common sense and logic, and allow this show to define "muscle car", then by the fact that they have done a show on the Corvette automatically defines it as a muscle car.
And by any definition you choose, the Hellcat Challenger is most definitely a muscle car. I don't care what standard of definition you use, the Hellcat Challenger is the top muscle car of all time, bar none, to this point. Whether the definition is based on straight line performance, stopping, getting around corners, etc., name one parameter that it fails on. Too sophisticated? Maybe, but then again, what is wrong with sophistication when the performance is there? Don't say it had too many creature comforts, because a lot of the "real muscle cars" of the late 1960s were decked out as well (see GTX vs. Road Runner, the GTO, etc.) The original Road Runner was a partial response to that, but just because the Road Runner came into being, doesn't make the "duded up" cars any less a muscle car. In today Hellcat Challenger, you no only have all of the features/luxury, you have performance that can match a Lamborghini or Ferrari.
Muscle means muscle, as in performance, period. A car that excites you when you drive it. And by my own definition, that includes the F body road runner, and the Hellcat Challenger. By your deifintion, it doesn't. So be it. However, I don't like the way the guy on the show put down the F body Road Runner. Instead of saying " it was just a trim package on a Volare", he could have said "the F body Road Runner was not as fast as the earlier big block cars, but was as fast as any other muscle cars of the day", or something to that effect. The point can be made that the original Road Runner was just a trim package on a Belvedere; the Super Bee was a trim package on a Coronet, if that is the way you want to do this. His dismissal of the F body Road Runner was an insult, and is part and parcel of somebody with a very inflated sense of self worth. As I said before, the only people who get to name cars are the manufacturers, and only the manufacturers. And in my book, people who hero worship late 1960s big block Road Runners do not get to define the term "muscle car" any more than anybody else.
There are way too many people out there who think they can define things for everybody, like people in the show. There is no formal definition of muscle car, anywhere, that is accepted by all. I have stated my definition, and by my definition, the Hellcat Challenger, the F body Road Runner, and yes, even the Corvette (being a sports car does not preclude it from being a muscle car to me), are muscle cars. You don't have to accept my definition, please feel free to state what your definition is.
Nice discussion.
All that aside, and even if we throw out all of the weights from all of the websites, let me ask the following questions:
1. How does an F body mysteriously put on 400-500 lbs of weight over time? Is this rust (that is a lot of rust)? Please note that a big block Cordoba comes in at about 3800-3900 lbs.
2. I do own 3 J bodies, I have real world weights on all of them. My cars come in at 3500-3550 lbs. Please answer the following, from this point:
a. How does an slant 6 F body, which is smaller (coupe) weigh the same as a larger bodied car, considering that the vast majority of the components are the same (engine, transmission, K member, front suspension, and rear axle), and my car is loaded to the gills?
b. I am missing nothing. While I have yet to do this, from what I understand, the Big Block in an F or J (which I have plans for) does not cause the car to plow, nor to become unbalanced. Done properly, a Big Block can be brought down to about a 100-150 lbs increase over a factory small block, 20-40 lbs of that can be reduced and help re-balance the car by moving the battery to the trunk. this is NOT speculation, there are more than a few F bodies with big blocks around, There are even some j Bodies around with big blocks. Not only doable, but quite usable, as well.
As for why I use websites to get weights, it si because I don't have an F body handy to weigh myself, just like I don't have a a 1968-1970 Road Runner for the same purpose, nor do I have every muscle car ever made to be able to do the same. If you do, then more power to you. The fact that I use logic, and multiple web sties that are fairly well trusted to get my numbers from is due to my not having infinite amounts of money and space to present real world arguments which is a failing on my part. And my response was due to somebody else posting a site that had incorrect weights on it. As for the person who said his slant 6 F body weighed 3490, and has mysteriously gained 400-500 lbs over the years, I plainly and simply don't understand that.
As for A bodies not having big blocks, please take the time to look up the Dodge Dart GTS with a 383. Unless Dodge had decided to put in a Chevy stroker in the late 1960s, it would have been a Big Block Mopar. And no, I don't own one of those either, just so you know.
As for the 1978-1979 Z28 not being a muscle car, please try to take that to a Chevy board, and see what type of response you get there with that statement. This is as arbitrary a statement as the one about the F body note being a muscle car. it may not be a muscle car to you, but I bet that there are plenty of people who would disagree with you.
If as you say, the Corvette is not a muscle car, but a sports car, then why did the same show, "American Muscle" do an episode on it? If we are to abandon all common sense and logic, and allow this show to define "muscle car", then by the fact that they have done a show on the Corvette automatically defines it as a muscle car.
And by any definition you choose, the Hellcat Challenger is most definitely a muscle car. I don't care what standard of definition you use, the Hellcat Challenger is the top muscle car of all time, bar none, to this point. Whether the definition is based on straight line performance, stopping, getting around corners, etc., name one parameter that it fails on. Too sophisticated? Maybe, but then again, what is wrong with sophistication when the performance is there? Don't say it had too many creature comforts, because a lot of the "real muscle cars" of the late 1960s were decked out as well (see GTX vs. Road Runner, the GTO, etc.) The original Road Runner was a partial response to that, but just because the Road Runner came into being, doesn't make the "duded up" cars any less a muscle car. In today Hellcat Challenger, you no only have all of the features/luxury, you have performance that can match a Lamborghini or Ferrari.
Muscle means muscle, as in performance, period. A car that excites you when you drive it. And by my own definition, that includes the F body road runner, and the Hellcat Challenger. By your deifintion, it doesn't. So be it. However, I don't like the way the guy on the show put down the F body Road Runner. Instead of saying " it was just a trim package on a Volare", he could have said "the F body Road Runner was not as fast as the earlier big block cars, but was as fast as any other muscle cars of the day", or something to that effect. The point can be made that the original Road Runner was just a trim package on a Belvedere; the Super Bee was a trim package on a Coronet, if that is the way you want to do this. His dismissal of the F body Road Runner was an insult, and is part and parcel of somebody with a very inflated sense of self worth. As I said before, the only people who get to name cars are the manufacturers, and only the manufacturers. And in my book, people who hero worship late 1960s big block Road Runners do not get to define the term "muscle car" any more than anybody else.
There are way too many people out there who think they can define things for everybody, like people in the show. There is no formal definition of muscle car, anywhere, that is accepted by all. I have stated my definition, and by my definition, the Hellcat Challenger, the F body Road Runner, and yes, even the Corvette (being a sports car does not preclude it from being a muscle car to me), are muscle cars. You don't have to accept my definition, please feel free to state what your definition is.
Nice discussion.
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Greg55_99
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I bough my 77 Road Runner brand new off the lot in 1978. 318 2 barrel with three speed with overdrive trans. Muscle car? At the time, no. Didn't get muscles until I put in a hot 360. But off the lot, no.
Greg
Greg
Aspen500
Well-Known Member
Well, I know why my car gained so much weight from when it was stock. Big block, 727, 8 3/4, crap load of sound deadening (Eastwood version of Dyna-Mat), A/C, chassis stiffening (sub frame connectors, rect tubing perimeter framing the engine compartment, cowl reenforcments, front sub frame from the tran x-member to just before the upper control arm brackets is the original with 1/8" "caps" fully welded on, etc) and probably some stuff I can't think of right now. It all adds up. Yes, it's a pig! Personally I think the handling is fine but I don't really drive aggressively. I'm sure it would understeer more than stock but it's no worse than most cars on the road.
The stock weight I posted may be a little off, it was a scale but an older one. The as it is now weight was done on a fairly new digital certified scale so in theory, it should be pretty accurate. Extra weight? Just need more power! Can we get a Tim The Tool Man grunt-grunt-grunt please! lol
The stock weight I posted may be a little off, it was a scale but an older one. The as it is now weight was done on a fairly new digital certified scale so in theory, it should be pretty accurate. Extra weight? Just need more power! Can we get a Tim The Tool Man grunt-grunt-grunt please! lol
