Another 360 Magnum thread

brotherGood

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Just picked up a 360 Magnum for my diplomat. I plan on essentially a full rebuild, but with a cam swap and throwing on a carb and headers.

Any help/advise is appreciated, and pictures will be coming.

*Note* I've dealt with magnum heads before, so I know of the potential for cracks as well as the need for the different intake. I will be running the V belt system as well.
 

BudW

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Cool !

Unrelated. I took some pictures of a 360 Magnum 4-speed that was installed into a ’73 Road Runner. The widow is trying to sell the car after he had a sudden heart attack. He just got the car together and drove car once, the night before he died.
She did comment that he was happy because car would get sideways without much effort.
20170819_162631r.jpg


20170819_162642 r.jpg

Pictures taken on August 19.
BudW
 

MoparKidD-4

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Check the block for the LA-style mounting ears, if it doesn't have those you'll need to find conversion mounts... besides that it's a straight bolt-in with the V-belt drive and carb setup.

Cam swap will require different pushrods if you're converting to flat-tappet cam, or a roller camshaft will need the extended snout to drive the mechanical fuel pump.

For intakes the Eddy Air-Gap is pretty much the only option for a street car, keep in mind Magnums have no exhaust crossover so you'll need to figure out a way to heat the intake in cold weather, either through heated air like a factory air cleaner or something to heat the intake itself. I had my Mag-headed LA 360 experience carb icing driving on the freeway in cold temps, around 40°F or less. If you live in a warm part of the country or only drive it in warm weather of course it won't be an issue.

Oh yeah and you'll need to find a center-sump oil pan, Magnums only had rear-sump pans since they were never installed in passenger cars...
 
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brotherGood

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So, I had someone lined up to send me some stuff for this 360 but they ghosted on me.

That being said, Im going to try and get this thing torn down this spring and off to the machine shop. This is going to be a stock bottom end rebuild, on very little budget..is there really an issue with using the bottom end kit from Rock Auto? I was going to pull the trigger on the head bolts, but I figured I'd wait. As far as the top end goes, the best I can tell I'll need are upgrades springs and retainers due to the bigger cam I'll be running. I havent decided what cam specifically, but I know Roller, and I know I want it to sound nasty while having vacuum. Im considering going to an electric fan, but Im not sure yet. Lastly, Im considering while the heads are getting work done, asking the shop if they can change the bolt pattern to match the LA. Solely due to the quality issues I've heard of the Crosswind intakes. Has the quality improved over the last few years on those, or are they still somewhat iffy. This will be the last engine combo this car sees (unless something stupid happens) so I want it to be nasty, yet reliable.
 

BudW

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Small block head bolts (A, LA or Magnum) are not known to go bad. They are big enough they don’t stretch like the newer stuff does.

Note: I’m not a fan of the angled bolts on the Magnum heads. That said – they are much easier to install/remove the middle 4 bolts, when you have a 4-bbl.
The middle 4 LA-style 4-bbl intake bolts are a bear.
BudW
 

brotherGood

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Well, with that in mind has anyone heard of the quality on the Crosswind intake? A few years ago I was hearing they were garbage.

Ultimately, I'm shooting for at least being in the ballpark of the 380 HP crate. From my understanding that's a stock block, cam, headers, and 670 Holley.
 

AJ/FormS

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Depending on the cam specs, you probably want to increase the compression ratio, else the bottom rpms get soft;which, in a heavy car, is a big disappointment. A higher stall TC can get you past that, but it won't do anything about the power having moved to a new higher roadspeed location.Only gears will restore the peak power back to it's original operating roadspeed.
Diplomats are cruisers with cruiser gears.
Hypothetically speaking;
Say you move the power peak up 600rpm, from 4800 to 5400. With a 2.45 rear gear,an A-998 trans with a 2.74 low, and 27" tires; this moves the power-peak, in first gear,from 55mph to 62 mph...What do you think of that ? The only way to get the power back to 55 mph is with a a higher number rear gear;mathematically,with a 3.05 rear gear.
But you gotta ask yourself; do you really need the first-gear power-peak to be at 55mph?
Probably not.
So you'll probably want to swap the rear gears to 3.23s or 3.55s. The 3.55s would bring that 5400rpm peak down to 43mph........ But, the original 4800rpm peak cam, and these 3.55s, would bring the power peak down to 37/38mph. See; now that's becoming useful.
If you need more power at this lower roadspeed, the better idea might be to increase the airflow with ported heads as opposed to cam timing events. Of course the usual add-ons are still required; like headers, a free-flowing dual exhaust,and the 4bbl system with cold-air intake.
But since you're doing a full tear-down, and boring it anyway;
Hypothetically speaking; the biggest boost IMO,would be to swap to aluminum heads,install a MEDIUM-RPM cam with fast clearance ramps and as much lift as possible,to work together with those heads, and simultaneously boost the cylinder pressure into the 180s,and more.
Of course all this needs to be engineered,and synchronized, and to fit into a budget. I see in post #4, that you have a very little budget..... so, like I said; Hypothetically speaking. Anyway; ..............that's where I ended up,with my 3650 pound slug (me in it) and I've never been sorry.
 
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brotherGood

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I guess I've been away long enough my current setup isn't known

At the moment, I've got a 318LA with magnum heads, dual exhaust, 998 trans and 8.25. I'll most likely rebuild the 998, I have a SG with 3.54s on the bench.
 

AJ/FormS

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I guess I've been away long enough my current setup isn't known

At the moment, I've got a 318LA with magnum heads, dual exhaust, 998 trans and 8.25. I'll most likely rebuild the 998, I have a SG with 3.54s on the bench.

The A998 could have either gearset in it. Because you mentioned it, I will assume you have the 2.74-1.54-1.00 set. Then;
For a street-only car, to really have fun,I highly recommend more gear than 3.54s. And here's why.
The typical shift rpm for a typical 318 performance cam,is 5500, and the roadspeeds will be 43/77and 119. But more importantly the torque peak will be at about 4000 (maybe a little less, and the speeds there will be 31-56 and 86.
But MOST importantly are those first numbers; 4000@31mph, and 5500@43. both in 2.74 low gear.
You didn't mention the stall, so assuming it's around 2000, that makes for a possibly slow take off, until the Rs approach that 4000 rpm, which as a kick-down gear is great. What interests me, is first gear runs out at 43mph. And on the shift, the Rs will drop back to 3090. If you have cammed up your engine, and the LA is still at 8/1 compression......then Your cylinder pressure may be so low, that at 3090, your race is over.
>So what to do. Well, no matter what, it's gonna be a 2 gear run to 60, so you can either run less gear and a higher stall, or more gear. 2.94s would get you 60 at 6300. but you're gonna need a lotta stall to find acceleration off the line, with 2.94s, and using a cam that goes 6300.
>So after that, the go-to gear is 3.91s. Those, in second now,will get you 60@4700..The starter gear is now 2.74 x 3.91=10.71, almost too much. This would be like 4.37s with the A904. And no street tire in a stock tub will,withstand much stall with that amount of TM.
_____________________________________________________________
>Ok so what if you had a 904. Well then the go-to 3.91gear will get you a 9.58 starter, a little more sane., and may work with your 2000TC. At the other end first gear now runs out at 48mph, and 60=4440rpm in 1.45 second gear.
So now you have another choice; 1)More power below 4440, or 2) more rpm in first gear. Or 3) a little less gear, a little more stall ,AND a little more rpm.
I'm guessing you'll pick option 3

____________________________________________________________________
Option 1)
what you need to build with this combo is a stout engine with plenty of power at below 4440rpm, and pretty much who cares about after that, cuz the engine will rarely be asked to pull from there.In first gear,the engine is so lightly loaded, that it will blast to the shift-rpm no matter what small cam is in it. All you need is enough traction to not boil the hides, and enough stall to catapult you to where the power begins.
To that end, a stock Magnum is already pretty close to being the right engine.
but of course 3.91s are not hiway friendly.
On the flipside, 3.91s are a good gear for the 318 to trap in, 5000@98mph in third gear,in the qtr, and; 78mph@5800rpm in second, for the 1/8th.
In this case more power by cam may not be the best solution.
Here are some alternate solutions; More airflow by;more displacement, more heads, or more pressure.

Option 2) is the one you are currently pursuing

Option 3) is just option 2 but with gears and stall co-ordinated.
So since you have the 3.54s, stick 'em in,but wait until the engine is installed and tested,to pick a TC
Cuz if the engine comes in lazy off the line, it might want a 3000 or more stall. But if you bring the pressure up to 160ish with the street-cam of your choice, then it won't be lazy, and then a 2800 or less might be enough.
 
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brotherGood

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I'm sticking with the 3.54..the TC issue I still need to figure out. Moreso, where to get one for a lock up 904 variant.
 

4speedjim

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The rock auto bottom end is as good as any other stock bottom end parts, so I wouldn't be afraid to use them. The crosswinds intakes are an inexpensive, Asian copy of the E-brock. It wont flow or fit exactly like the Eddy but to save 35% and have to round file a few bolt holes? For your performance and budget goals, I would consider it. It might make a good test bed to learn to port on if you ever want to up your game while maintaining your budget. Stock Scr on Magnums is around 9.2. If you stay there, and IMO you should. Your best investment IMO is the cam. Buy a Hughes whiplash or Howards Rattler cam you will have a very stout street motor. These cams must promote good cylinder filling (VE) because they don't recommend them with above stock Scr. Too high Cylinder pressure? They do produces a thick meaty torque curve, which I think you ultimately are shooting for and you can fill up on 87 pump swill. With a cam like these, You should be able to push the car through your 2000 rpm TC, saving money here too. And they give a healthy idle, while keeping enough vacuum for brakes. 360 oil pans are the only pans that fit the 360LA and Magnum, and as said, you need a center sump car pan. With this combo, and your stock heads you should be around 375hp, and torque will be flat off idle through 5800 and the most expensive and important part would be the cam. EQ 318B heads (LA intake holes) at $311ea delivered from Summit and Jegs would place you at 420hp/tq with your stock valve train off the heads you got with the motor.
Oh ya. The Magnums don't put much wear on the cylinders. The thin rings, efi and nickel in the blocks keep cylinder wear to a very minimum. Double check the bores before you order pistons. If the guy changed his oil you may not need, or only need a .01 clean up if that. But shelf pistons .010 over for a 360 are not stock/shelf last I looked. So you might have to go .030 over whether you need to or not. Good luck and as always... keep us up to date
 
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