Are these 5 on 5 Knockoffs?

[kkritsilas]

Hi,

I have just bought these, thinking they were 5 on 5s as available on Cordobas. I don't think that they are, but if the webbing between the "rear" or thin spokes was blacked out they would be really close. The are marked as "Western Wheel Div Rockwell ____". I don't know who made the Chrysler 5 on 5s. Measurements seem right, 15X7", 4" backspacing, and 4 1/2" bolt circle. Are these 5 on 5 knock offs/copies?
I say they are not the original 5 on 5s because the tire valve stem is in the wrong place. In the sales brochure for the 1980 Cordoba, they show the valve stem aligned with one of the front/wide spokes, the valve stem on these wheels are aligned with the rear/thin spokes. Picturs is below:

In any case, does anybody have any idea where I may get the center caps for these whees?

Kostas

 

[slant6billy]

I did not know about the valve stem location. Not sure what 5 by 5 inch is out there other than big GMs / GM 1/2 ton pickups. As for Caps, there were several folks at Carlisle last week with a lot of odd cap sets. I can remember discount auto parts stores in the late 80s and early 90s had caps for just about anything from Crager / centerline to plastic universal types. These look like a rim I saw on a 68 stang at a cruiser show last month. Ford and mopar share the 4 1/2 bolt pattern, so it could be an avenue for look (ford that is). Make certain of that measurement on the bolt pattern. I had a nice set of mags from the early 80s that were neither 4.5 or 4.75, but somewhere inbetween...... metric and meant for big brakes. I tried every foreign hub out there from BMW/ Mercedes to Japan cars. Nothing fit the odd mag. A budy with a machine shop was able to oval the holes inward towards the center hub hole and I was able to move them to a home on a mopar. It was a pain and I wont do that again. Search some e bay or mustang forums for a cap with out a ford logo or no logo at all- is my suggestion. Mag wheels of unknown origin are both mysterious and frustrating. Good luck man.

 

[jasperjacko]

Those are correct. Just like mine.

 

[80 Lebaron Coupe]

Those are correct. Just like mine.

Whats your process for getting your wheels to shine like that?
I got a set recently and want them to look like yours.

 

[jasperjacko]

I sanded off all the clear, then progressively sanded out all the machining marks up to 2500 grit, then rouge and polish. I spent about 10 hrs per wheel. I'm sure there is a faster way, but I'm happy with the results.

 

[kkritsilas]

I think the picture in the 1980 sales brochure is wrong. Maybe they used an artist's rendering or a prototype wheel for the picture in the brochure.

Slant6Billy, the 5 on 5 is what I thought was being informally used to refer to these wheels. This is due to the 5 thick spokes on top/in front of the 5 thinner spokes. Can't call them 10 spokes, because that is what the Mirada/Mirada CMX wheels are being called most of the time. The bolt pattern is 5 X 4 1/2".

80 LeBaron Coupe, Jasperjacko will let you know his process, but know that these wheels are most likely forged (hit with a big hammer/press while in a semi-molten state) vs. cast (liquid aluminum poured into a mould). The forging process results in a stronger metal, but also results in a metal that polishes up to a far better shine. Forged wheels are very expensive to make, and sell at (usually) very expensive prices. I used to have a set if Weld Racing rims for my Lincoln Mark VIII that I used to get compliments on all the time for how nice and perfect the chrome plating was. Thing is, they weren't chrome plated, just polished. I got them new, and was good about keeping them clean. A lot of people didn't believe me when I told them that the wheels weren't chrome plated. Also, they were't clear coated or waxed, which tends to reduce the shine. Weld Racing still only makes forged wheels.

Kostas

 

[kkritsilas]

Update on 5 on 5 wheels

I did a little bit of work on the wheels this morning, mostly trying to get the backsides clean (just the part that will be visible from the front). Found the Chrysler Pentastar logo and part number, so these are the correct wheels for the Cordoba.

The front of the wheels are painted silver/light grey. I will be using aircraft paint stripper to get the grey paint off of the front/thicker spokes, the center of the wheel, the outer rim area, and the top/machined surfaces of the thin spokes. Those areas will be polished out. The lower spoke area will be painted black (any suggestions on paint?).

Also, here is the picture that confused me (note the valve stem being aligned with the thick spokes):

Anybody notice how the spoke pattern in the wheel looks like two pentastars?

Kostas

 

[jasperjacko]

I think the valve stem looks better in the production wheels. Also notice the small spoke hi-lights are machined to a point.

 

[kkritsilas]

I agree with that. They were some good looking wheels, though. Right up there with the Imperial Snow Flakes for best looking Mopar wheels ever.

I guess the brochures were prepped up before the actual production wheels were available. Missed the taper of the thin spokes. Got real confused about the alignment of the valve stem, which is what prompted the questions originally. The thin spokes stop short of hitting the edge of the rim, which is a little bit different, but still looks really good.

Kostas

P.S. Anybody know if the center caps from the Imperial Snow Flaske type wheels fits on the 5 on 5 wheels (the wheels we are discussing right now in this thread)?

 

[High Speed Pursuit]

Those are correct. Just like mine.

What paint (code) did you use for the inserts? My 10 spoke inserts are blue and I want to change them to the factory grey inserts, but wasn't sure of the correct code/color. I'm thinking of using aircraft stripper instead of sanding...did you attempt stripper at all?

 

[jasperjacko]

I did not strip the paint. It was nice after I cleaned it up

 

[kkritsilas]

High Speed Pursuit:

I am starting my process with Aircraft Stripper. I have only had a preliminary run, and it looks promising, although I suspect that the aircraft stripper I am using is well past its best before date. I am starting to see bits of raw aluminum under the paint, and it is almost mirror like already. I will only be able to determine if wet sanding is necessary after I get all of the unwanted paint off.. I am only using it on the thick/front spokes, center cap area, and rim section. The area between the thick spokes is going to be left alone for now (mine is a medium grey, much like the one in Jasperjacko's picture above), or I may paint it black, haven't decided yet. The thin spokes will be polished up. I will be cleaning up the wheels all over with some wheel cleaning products, and will probably not strip the paint off of the webbing if it is well stuck down, just paint over it.

Kostas

 

[High Speed Pursuit]

Thanks for the info Kostas...please post photos when you finish them

 

[80 Lebaron Coupe]

Yeah, I would like to see the results also.

 

[kkritsilas]

I'm going to be working on them tonight, if the weather holds up. Its been raining here for the last couple of days, and I don't want to do any of this indoors. I don't have a garage, so I do it in front of my place. The stuff I use is supposed to be low odor, but I'm pretty sure its not a good idea to do it indoors in any case. I may also need to get a new jug of aircraft stripper, if the stripper I have doesn't seem to work properly, I will have to see.

Kostas

 

[kkritsilas]

I just wanted to get back with some more information regarding the aircraft stripper. I don't think it is going to work with the aircraft stripper. It may be the stripper that I am using, but it seems like, as stated by JasperJacko earlier, that there are machining marks in the aluminum that are serving to hold a lot of paint, and the stripper seems to be having a hard time cutting through the thick paint. I think the thickness of the paint was intentional, to hide the machining marks and make the surface of the wheel look smooth. if you want the mirror-like shine in JasperJacko's wheels, either media blasting followed by wet sanding, or wet sanding entirely will be the only way to get there.

I will be trying the aircraft paint stripper again tomorrow, maybe another 2-3 passes on the same spokes I did the initial test. It may be enough to take the paint off, and expose the bare aluminum so that it can be polished out. I may leave the machining marks in place.

Kostas

 

[kkritsilas]

Sorry to bother the board with more questions, but if you don't ask, you don't learn.

Does anybody know if the wheel centers from the Mopar versions of the Magnum 500 are the same, or fit properly, on the 5 on 5 wheels. Year One makes a repro set (https://www.yearone.com/Product/1966-74-a-b-e-body/mr019). I have the 5 on 5s that I am working to get the paint off of, but will need centers, as the wheels that I bought didn't come with them.

Also does anybody know if these spinners will fit the 5 on 5s? See:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171089188983?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Those might look really good with the 5 on 5s.

Update on the aircraft stripper idea: I did try it one more time. It seems that these wheels have a clear coat on top of the paint. The clear coat comes off pretty easily. The color coat underneath is pretty stubborn. I have tried to remove the color coat with aricraft stripper one more time, with very limited success. I was in a rush though, so I may not have give the stripper enough time to do its best. I will be trying again this weekend. Life got in the way since my last update, but I should have some time to experiment this weekend. I have investigated the Eastwood Small-Job Blasting System (ww.eastwood.com/eastwood-small-job-blasting-systems.html) if the aircraft stripper doesn't work out. I did contact Eastwood's tech support people via chat, and they advised that the crushed/ground glass media would probably be better than the soda for this application. The kit ($49.99) comes with 10 lbs of soda and 10 lbs of ground glass. Even with the Hood ($39.99) it still comes out cheaper to get the kit and hood vs. going to a media blasing place locally ($110/HR + Media (37.50 per 50 llbs. bag for soda)). Keep in mind that this kit needs a pretty substantial compressor due to air volume/pressure requirements (7.5 CFM @ 80 PSI). I do have a compressor that I can borrow to power this kit, but if you don't have one, it will cost a lot of money to get something of adequate size.

Eastwood has a video on cleaning wheels with this kit right on the same page as the kit information. They use the ground glass in the video to clean up some Mustang wheels.

Kostas

 

[jasperjacko]

If you really want the paint off, why not just get them sand blasted and then hand sand and polish to finish? I think you could have them blasted for 50-100 bucks tops. Remember, the soda is a one time use product and 10 lbs. is just 2 bags of sugar. Maybe sugar or salt would do the trick...who knows?

 

[tim berry]

i have used soda before ,you can adjust your air down to minimize etching of the metal i did this on the a arm covers at 90 psi it was too much i think soda at 55-65 psi might get the job done for you i boght the spot blaster the orange onefrom eastwood good tool

 

[kkritsilas]

Jasperjacko:

Sandblasting aluminum will actually remove aluminum along with the paint. I'm no expert on this, and can only go by what my research has revealed, but nobody recommends sand blasting anything except thicker steel or cast iron. Talking to the local media blasting places, they are quoting 2 hours @$110/hour, along with $37.50 for soda media. Call it $250, and this is if I do this myself. If I buy the kit, hook it up to my friend's compressor, and pay the same $37.50 for media, I get the same result for about $100.00, and end up with a soda/ground glass blasting kit that I can use for other jobs.

Tim:

Thanks for the feedback on the Eastwood kit. Seems like some of Eastwood's stuff is good, other stuff not so much, so your review is a big help. The Eastwood video, and Eastwood's tech support are both indicating that the factory wheel paint used is particularly tough. I will keep your advice in mind when I begin the media blasting, if I need to go that far.

Kostas