"Crush all those Vipers" orders FIAT!
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Jack Meoff
Mopar Maniac
Paint a fiat blue with white stripes and send Sergio a video of it bring crushed.
He'll never know the difference....
He'll never know the difference....
My imp
Well-Known Member
Yep, put it right next to the turbine cars.
slant6billy
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Weren't there bad movies from the 70s and 80s that had the theme of destroying cars (Firebird 2015 AD, The Last Chase, and Crash! ........etc etc) Say what you will- I plan on driving as much pre 1996 stuff. I like the fact the car insurance can't install that little tattletail "click it" device in pre OBD2, No black box "OnStar" recording my driving habits ( I hate GM anyway). Car inspection consist of a few revs of the engine and a floor camera looking up at the catalytic converter. I just saw an 80 f coupe pop back up on Craigslist and I MUST go take a look. People at work constantly ask me, "How do you out smart the low tire pressure sensors? How can you fake out the emissions on a 2008 caddy? How can I avoid the dealer service?" All these people bought newer cars and now the catchup. "PAY UP or buy newer. These used cars that are OBD2 are all subject to the tough EPA laws. SCREW that and screw FIAT. I'm going to drive my old mopars for a long time as a thankyou to the manufacturer and they should be thankful that they made their money once with me. If they get in the busniess again as a good company to buy a car and the government quits persecuting the cars as BAD, it just might be worth it.
Jack Meoff
Mopar Maniac
jasperjacko
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Idiots!
brotherGood
Well-Known Member
As I stated elsewhere..Its got nothing to do with Fiat. The terms of the donation were put into contract, and at the time it was Diamlers's ownership. The fact that they aren't legal for highway use..Chrysler would face an unreal amount of fines and whatnot if they allowed anything other than crushing. Its too bad, but they were sent for educational use..and they served their purpose.
Regardless...it sucks. But that's the good old GOVT at fault with this one.
Regardless...it sucks. But that's the good old GOVT at fault with this one.
kkritsilas
Well-Known Member
They could be donated to a museum on condition that they never be driven. For that matter, they could be parted out (engine/transmission at least). They could be sold to a private collector on condition that they only be driven on a closed circuit road course (and there are a number of them popping up)m and never on a public road. All of these would be far more acceptable than crushing them; crushing them is just a waste.
Kostas
brotherGood
Well-Known Member
They're not sellable. I agree, they could've sent them to a museum..but that too would extend the concern of someone driving them.
It comes down to government stipulations, ones that were in place before the agreement was ever made. It isn't Chrysler, or Fiat, to blame.
It comes down to government stipulations, ones that were in place before the agreement was ever made. It isn't Chrysler, or Fiat, to blame.
Jack Meoff
Mopar Maniac
Not a lot of sunny responses on the Chrysler blog.....
http://blog.chryslerllc.com/blog.do?p=entry&id=2234
http://blog.chryslerllc.com/blog.do?p=entry&id=2234
slant6billy
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OK. Government, lawyers, and Suit types; Were you that douche bag type back in school? I really wonder when I see on the dumb moves made these days in the name of the greater good. Good for who? When Ford was going to put the mustang down and utilize the probe in it's place, the backlash was huge. Perhaps it was all hype? I mean who in there right mind names a car the "Probe". They could have had commercial running. " OK, bend over, because here comes the "Probe"! whether you want it or not......" Or GM letting Ralph Nader's Unsafe at Any Speed kill a really state of the art car that was just like a porsche or VW or other rear engine car. Nader is one of these monster douche bag types along with others. Inventors and proponents of catalytic converters and such- more doushebags with greed, political gain, and other power trip erections. I wish mopar Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat would get out the Corporatism business as usual with Risk assessments, market trends, and other 4 out 5 dentist surveyed said so. Let the talent in and get the bullshit out. I mean they must really hate themselves and loathe the mopar in all the dumb decisions they make. Like a dog with the balls cut off- really.
My take on it is pretty simple: I fail to understand all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about this. We're not talking about anything with historical value, they're not street-legal nor are they suited to racing, so they're giant doorstops. I wouldn't want to own one of them personally, as it would just take up otherwise-useful space. So, I fail to see any reason for outcry on the subject. We're talking beat-to-death engineering mules, not showroom-fresh driver-type cars. This has been happening for decades, and those that had the cars should feel lucky to have had them while they did. Now they don't, so they can get over it. At no time did Chrysler relinquish ownership of the cars, so their fate is Chrysler's decision. In this case, it's a wise one, as anyone who worked in Chrysler warranty service during the Renault Alliance heater core debacle will tell you.
Jack Meoff
Mopar Maniac
My two cents is.....
Regardless of the fact that Chrysler still owns them and right out of the gate said they would destroy them....hindsight comes to mind.
How many people including people at Chrysler wish they never crushed the turbine cars now? What's a body in white worth and how much historical significance do they have?...plenty. It's Chrysler history.
Like them or hate them the Viper IS a significant car and IS a solid part of Chrysler history and in my mind it seems an unnecessary waste to crush them "because we said we would". There are obvious options that would still appease the emissions and safety Gestapo.
My opinion only but crushing these cars to me is spitting in the eye of this particular Mopar enthusiast...
Regardless of the fact that Chrysler still owns them and right out of the gate said they would destroy them....hindsight comes to mind.
How many people including people at Chrysler wish they never crushed the turbine cars now? What's a body in white worth and how much historical significance do they have?...plenty. It's Chrysler history.
Like them or hate them the Viper IS a significant car and IS a solid part of Chrysler history and in my mind it seems an unnecessary waste to crush them "because we said we would". There are obvious options that would still appease the emissions and safety Gestapo.
My opinion only but crushing these cars to me is spitting in the eye of this particular Mopar enthusiast...
I never said the Viper model wasn't of historical significance. I said the cars in question aren't historically significant. There are plenty of other Vipers around for one to ogle and/or own, both on the road and in museums. The prototypes still exist, too. So where's the issue? If these were neons, Rams or LH cars, no one would care one bit yet each of those models is more historically significant to the Chrysler Corporation than their halo car. Those other models were the rebirth of Chrysler in the '90s that made Chrysler the most-successful, most-profitable car company on this hemisphere when Daimler bought it and raped the company. Again, these cars are not street legal, they are not suited for competition (production Vipers were never competitive in any form of motorsport), so what's Chrysler going to do with them? Put them in a museum next to the dozens of actual, historically notable Vipers already in museums? Leave them in the hands of the already-proven-irresponsible people that had them, several of whom have crashed these cars when they weren't even supposed to be driving them? Any other option beyond taking the measures they have makes no sense when you think of the potential litigation. Chrysler's been very lucky thus far that no lawsuits have yet arisen from the decision to loan them in the first place. How long can they continue to roll the dice? Due to potential litigation, the cars can neither be parted out nor sold as-is. So what's the proposition to "save" these cars? Put them in a giant warehouse, the location of which no one will ever care about since no one would go there anyhow since there's nothing special in it? That's still leaves the potential that one or more of the cars could be stolen in a break-in, and that leaves Chrysler wide-open again to liability, since it would be their fault that the cars were not disabled beyond driveability.
Why has not one other person seen any of this? Why doesn't Chrysler get any credit for having loaned these rolling litigation magnets as long as they did? A few jerks spoiled it for everyone by driving them and getting into accidents. If your whole class got sent back to school early because a couple of kids kept throwing shovels into the impellers, does that make the superintendent of the hydroelectric power dam the bad guy? No.
The Turbine Cars are not even a comparison. They passed (actually exceeded) all FMVSS at the time and were 100% street legal. Chrysler didn't crush all the Turbine Cars. There are at least four you can go see in museums, and at least one is rumored in private hands. Regardless, what else could they do with them? They couldn't sell them to the general public since there was no parts or service knowledge with which to keep a paying customer on the road. There was no racing class in which they'd be competitive, and weren't suited to modification to make them so (the Turbine Cars were pig slow). So, why the hell would you sit on a bunch of cars for absolutely no reason, be they Turbine Cars or test-mule Vipers?
In the overly-litigious society America has become, this is the only solution that makes sense as a company. People sue because the coffee's too hot, people sue because they got caught in the ventilation system while attempting to rob a place, and people who have signed lengthy waivers stating they understand the risks of what they're about to do still sue when the whole venture goes sideways, and somehow they always seem to get a true "jury of their peers", made up of people who are equally stupid and award them not only the victory but an enormous sum of money as well.
It was fun while it lasted. So until I hear of a truly-viable reason why--as well as a solution as to how--these cars should be "preserved", it's a tip of the hat, and fare thee well.
Why has not one other person seen any of this? Why doesn't Chrysler get any credit for having loaned these rolling litigation magnets as long as they did? A few jerks spoiled it for everyone by driving them and getting into accidents. If your whole class got sent back to school early because a couple of kids kept throwing shovels into the impellers, does that make the superintendent of the hydroelectric power dam the bad guy? No.
The Turbine Cars are not even a comparison. They passed (actually exceeded) all FMVSS at the time and were 100% street legal. Chrysler didn't crush all the Turbine Cars. There are at least four you can go see in museums, and at least one is rumored in private hands. Regardless, what else could they do with them? They couldn't sell them to the general public since there was no parts or service knowledge with which to keep a paying customer on the road. There was no racing class in which they'd be competitive, and weren't suited to modification to make them so (the Turbine Cars were pig slow). So, why the hell would you sit on a bunch of cars for absolutely no reason, be they Turbine Cars or test-mule Vipers?
In the overly-litigious society America has become, this is the only solution that makes sense as a company. People sue because the coffee's too hot, people sue because they got caught in the ventilation system while attempting to rob a place, and people who have signed lengthy waivers stating they understand the risks of what they're about to do still sue when the whole venture goes sideways, and somehow they always seem to get a true "jury of their peers", made up of people who are equally stupid and award them not only the victory but an enormous sum of money as well.
It was fun while it lasted. So until I hear of a truly-viable reason why--as well as a solution as to how--these cars should be "preserved", it's a tip of the hat, and fare thee well.
Jack Meoff
Mopar Maniac
I hear what you're saying and understand the validity of your points.
And realistically we could debate this for days...
What irks me is crushing Vipers solely because of red tape.
Any way you slice it it's just a waste.
I don't know what the "right" solution would be but crushing them sure doesn't sound like it to me. And in my personal view although a Neon is indeed a Mopar somehow it doesn't hold the same position as a pre production Viper does.... I'm the kind of guy who gets pissed when I find out the boneyard crushed Fifth Ave's. Or they get derby'd. Crushing cars like those Vipers....
To me it's waste for no valid reasoning.
It is what it is and there's nothing I can do about it really except express my disappointment. Chrysler can justify it anyway they like but I'll never agree with it. It's not like I'm going to lose sleep over it....but in a perfect world where people still had a level of common sense I'm sure another solution could be found.
And realistically we could debate this for days...
What irks me is crushing Vipers solely because of red tape.
Any way you slice it it's just a waste.
I don't know what the "right" solution would be but crushing them sure doesn't sound like it to me. And in my personal view although a Neon is indeed a Mopar somehow it doesn't hold the same position as a pre production Viper does.... I'm the kind of guy who gets pissed when I find out the boneyard crushed Fifth Ave's. Or they get derby'd. Crushing cars like those Vipers....
To me it's waste for no valid reasoning.
It is what it is and there's nothing I can do about it really except express my disappointment. Chrysler can justify it anyway they like but I'll never agree with it. It's not like I'm going to lose sleep over it....but in a perfect world where people still had a level of common sense I'm sure another solution could be found.
brotherGood
Well-Known Member
This. I just couldn't quite get it from my head to keyboard..Lol
My imp
Well-Known Member
Exact is a none existant word. The turbine cars were crushed for tax, red tape, bs. So four out of fifty survived. Who gives a f never mind. Short sighted people takin the easy way out, rather than expending a little time & effort. But then again, the school proved they couldn't honor the contract as written. Take the car, write another contract with someone who will! I'd take that non street legal Viper over 90% of the shite Fix It Again Today/Tony shipped over here for years! At least when Daimler was finished with Chrysler, there was something worth saving. Just wait till Fiat's done with it.
ramenth
Well-Known Member
So, we're having a fit about crushing cars which have been worked on by unsupervised novices, taken apart ten times, put back together wrong nine of those times, have been purposely sabotaged in order to teach a class about diagnostics and generally have never been warmed up to operating temperature being moved from the parking lot to the garage and back again so the engines are now full of sludge, everything needs to be taken completely apart and rebuilt correctly for the cost of a new Viper.
72Dodge
Well-Known Member
They're pretty doorstops, that's about it.
