Give that slant some more MPG

[SixBanger]

Thanks Bud for info and the pdfs. In the manual I use I could not find information for a tool for removing the pulley.

Today I have the parts for the ignition. I also removed the power steering pulley from the engine without removing the radiator. It was not yet necessary to remove the balancer from the crankshaft. I think I fit the trigger wheel on the original three bolt mounting (fitting longer 5/16 bolts).
But now that I can go to the balancer, I would still be able to check the timing chain.

 

[SixBanger]

At Christmas we went to family. The car drives fine. Oil consumption is reduced, after the drive of 400 miles not really observable oil consumption.
Fuel consumption is now in the winter, and with a lot of use of highway around 11.5 mpg. Room for improvement.

At home, a power 'test' is done. 0-100 km/h test, LPG 23 seconds and gasoline 16 seconds.
Which roughly results in a power on the wheels of 45 hp at LPG and 75 hp for petrol. I am guessing a rate of automatic and differential + tires of both 80%. So total 64%.
What comes down to 117 hp at the flywheel on petrol and 70 hp in LPG.
Not the intention to want to go fast on LPG, but more as an indication. On petrol he switched to 3rd gear at 110 km/h. And with LPG this was already quite early at 75 km/h. This resulted in a much slower 0-100 measurement.

I look forward to the results with other ignition. Just for reference.

 

[tallboy]

Hi SixBanger. I made a small comment regarding cheap ways to improve your mileage in another thread, you can use the first part: SUPER SIX HEADERS May I ask the total cost of the ignition components you bought, did you buy them in Holland, or on the net? The prices in your part of Europe are much lower than here up north!
If you need to remove the harmonic balancer, do not use an ordinary puller, that will only destroy the balancer. The balancer is made from a center part pressed onto the crankshaft, and an outer metal ring bonded together with the center with rubber. They have a tendency to split when they get old, and can somtimes lead to that the outer ring is rotated a little, but enough so the timing marks will be incorrect. You could check that when you attach the new ignition parts.
(BTW; hi Charrlie_S)

 

[SixBanger]

Hey Tallboy.
I follow that thread too. The idea of replacing the propeller is a good idea. Nice thing is that you can then regulate the fans and if possible have more influence to keep the water temperature constant. It gave me an idea to possibly manage it with a simple arduino. However, with an indication lamp that they are working and a temperature warning light, the fans could fail. The propeller that is currently on it is robust. But would it really demand so much power from the engine?

The ignition module also contains a number of analog inputs (AUX). Here you can insert a number of sensors. Such as a temperature sensor of the engine oil or coolant. One idea is that if the temperature of the engine oil becomes too high, the ignition is put back a little. But that is for later.


The total cost of the package, including the ford ignition module and associated sensors and wiring, amounted to 380 pounds + 45 shipping.
I ordered this from the UK. Complete Megajolt bundle for 6-cylinder engines
After the order you have contact with the supplier, and they determine on the basis of a few photos what would best fit the trigger wheel.

 

[SixBanger]

Yesterday I was busy manufacturing a bracket for the VR sensor. It was best to mount it on the torsion spring arms. I expected that this might cause some problems, given that the axles are twisting with feathers. I have not driven yet, but after a few times moving the car seems pretty solid.

The second is the mounting of the trigger wheel on the pulley. This on the basis of the original bolts.
I will first assemble the components. And later possible disassemble the harmonic balancer to check the timing gear. Thanks for the tip for not using a standard puller.

 

[tallboy]

But would it really demand so much power from the engine?

According to this dyno test with different mechanical fans on a 350 Chevy engine, the fan from an Aspen/Volare slantsix engine stole 31.5 hp@4500rpm! If we take into consideration that the test engine is stationary, the added air flow through the fan and over the engine in a real driving situation may lower those numbers a little. Anyway, my estimate of 5-7hp is rather conservative... There was no test of electrical fans, but there was a test of the power loss from an alternator with a 65A load on it, and that was only 1.28 hp. There are also some interesting numbers from the switch to a synthetic engine oil. That increased output with 3 hp, as well as running the engine 9° cooler.
http://www.carnut.com/ramblin/dyno.html
On a slantsix petrol engine, there is also a problem with fuel evaporation from the carburetor because of the heat buildup under the hood after stopping the engine. With a timer relay, an electrical fan can be set to run for a couple of minutes after stopping the engine, to help on that situation. A heat shield between the manifolds and carburetor will also be a great imrovement.

 

[SixBanger]

Okay, interesting. Indeed, an alternator of 65 Amp would ask for power in that direction.
It would be nice if the translators cool the radiator more effectively at low speeds and after accelerations. In addition, possible speed control or on-off control of the fans when used on highways.

What does his heat shield look like? Is it a piece of metal plate or just an exhaust wrap?
Given that I mainly run on LPG, is it necessary / desirable for the carburetor to be heated by the exhaust manifold?

 

[tallboy]

The power needed for the alternator may seem high in relation to the output, but there are also some friction losses.
The heat shield is just an aluminum plate large enough to reduce the heat radiation from the manifold/exhaust pipe, that is what most people use. It was actually a stock factory item on some A100 vans, if I remember correctly it was made of a composite of thin, polished steel plate with some asbestos plate or similar heat proof material on the upper side. I'll see if I have some pics.
I am not qualified to answer anything about LPG, I am strictly a petrolhead!

 

[SixBanger]

Alright, I did seen an A100 with slant on an episode of Wheeler Dealers a while ago. Shame they swap it for a 8. But it was the smallest one and with manual three.

But I like the idea of the electric fans, I will visit a local junkyard if they have some fans. I like to roam around here. But all the cars here from construction years '90 - '00, but you might find some useful parts for small money.

Currently there is an 'open' air filter. I'm thinking of making a pipe connection later with the colder outside air. No idea there are aftermarket air filter houses for these? An LPG mixing piece from Impco is also included in the current air filter. Another option is to produce something for yourself.

 

[SixBanger]

A small update.
For the attachment of the trigger wheel three studs are made. One side 3/8 UNC thread and other side M8. Thus, the pulley of the power steering can still be mounted with the original 5/16 bolts.

Fortunately, I was able to borrow a UNC cutting tool from a friend (Greenfield mass). He still had it from his great-grandfather. Probably still from the war. Old tools work fine, you can also set the cutting tool to pre-cut and then cut the final time.

 

[BudW]

A couple of issues:
Getting rid of the solid (no flex blade and no fan clutch) fan blade will help with mileage.

My ’77 Volare 318 2-bbl automatic no A/C car came with the same fan blade and no fan shroud you have. Most of the “smaller than 26”/660 mm radiators didn’t come with a fan shroud and came with same the solid 4-blade fan blade. I removed the blade and spacer and installed a 5-blade and fan clutch from a newer M-body. The engine noise was drastically reduced, and fuel mileage went up in town and highway by about 1 MPG (about 15%) better.

When a car is traveling down any road over 30 MPH (48 KPH) – the fan clutch never gets a chance to engage because the air flow through the radiator is pushing the fan blade (instead of the engine) on fan clutch systems.

I already have electric cooling fans picked out for when I convert to the wider 26” (660 mm) wide radiator and plan to use then when I make my first modifications to either car (77 Volare or 86 Fifth Ave). To be honest, todays electric cooling fans only operate when A/C is on or when car is sitting still (stop lights) – and rarely operate beyond those times. In your case – I do recommend replacing your 4-blade fan with electric fan (after you install a 65-amp alternator first).

Is not a very good picture - but this car was built with same 4-blade fan and spacer block yours has (but on a 318). This is a 5-blade fan with fan clutch, which I installed.


Second issue – I think it is a bad idea to mount anything to the torsion bars. They do twist all the time and keeping your bracket in place and not twisting a bracket is one issue. The other issue is engine movement. Your 40-year-old engine mounts are far from perfect and will allow the engine to both rotate in position several degrees and well as allow side to side movement (like having foot on gas and brake petals at same time while changing gears from reverse to drive.

You would be much better off making a bracket that attaches to the timing cover (using timing cover bolts, or via water pump bolts, etc.) for several reasons.

Unrelated, a /6 uses the same timing chain and gears as a big block. The two-timing covers are different – but were based off the same design. I would guess a Dodge big block adjustable timing sensor bracket might fit onto a /6 or something similar fabricated to make work.

BudW

 

[SixBanger]

Thank you for sharing your build and advice for the fans. I could not find out what the maximum amperage is of an original alternator. 50 amp?

Good point about attaching the timing sensor. It did not seem to me the best method either. Although I drove a test drive yesterday with the mounted sensor and trigger wheel. The distance between the wheel and sensor can be relatively large, one millimeter.
But indeed the motor moves a number of degrees and the trigger wheel might come close to the sensor.

It is always possible to fabricate another mounting bracket. However, it seems difficult to find a good mounting spot on the bolt holes of the timing cover. Given that the belt to power the alternator also go right along. I'm going to think about this.

 

[BudW]

The largest the factory put out (with this design) is 65 Amps. Aftermarket has bumped it up higher (~100 Amps).

This company http://www.flamingriver.com/index.php/products/c0023/s0013/FR117
has a factory “appearing alternator” that puts out 240 Amps – which is a bit overkill for most people. Also for a price of $850 (US) plus shipping – it might give a common person a heart attack.


There are three ways to make an alternator put out more power: increase the copper windings in the Rotor, increase the copper windings in the stator and/or increase alternator RPM’s. All three methods have its drawbacks AS WELL AS you also need to increase the wiring harness to accommodate the extra amperage. I wouldn’t worry about going to a ’65 Amp alternator – but any more than that, you will need to upgrade the output wiring before bad things happen.

In ’88 Chrysler went to two different design alternators – both of which put out more amperage. They require different brackets for small blocks – but I would think they would (or might) fit a /6 without issues. The cost to get one too you to find out might not be worth the cost – if it doesn’t work.
Finding a 65 Amp alternator may very well be worth the cost.
BudW

 

[SixBanger]

After making another bracket of the VR sensor and adjusting the new ignition it is a good thing to look at the electricity of the car.

For the new ignition it was necessary to use two fuses and three relays. The ignition of which is protected with a 15 ampere fuse and the ECU with a 5 ampere. The relays are used to switch on both the ignition and the ECU separately with a switched 12 volt. In addition, a third relay for selecting the 2nd ignition mapping for driving on petrol. To select this folder you must connect to the earth (-) with an output of the ECU. When the car runs on petrol, the fuel break valve is energized, this signal also serves the third relay to earth.

But this extra electronics and wiring is not really neat. In addition, there is a lot of extra electronics and wiring in the engine compartment for controlling the LPG and petrol system (This also applies to the driver's area).
So it seems convenient to me if there is a common fuse and relay box in the engine compartment. And I'm going to see if the particular wiring can be left out. One has once built a second wiring for the LPG system.
An opportunity to also take into account the installation of a few fans and associated electronics.



Currently I have the car running on the new ignition with the current VR bracket.
At first sign, the engine runs smoothly. At the first test I noticed that he was not speeding up and began to stutter on high load. This was remedied by screwing back the gas supply (lean adjustment).
Even if it is still roughly adjusted. But I already notice that it has more spirit on LPG. Particularly in part load (50-70% load 1500 rpm) area. I also noticed that the stroboscope gives a brighter light when checking the base timing.

But first make a better VR bracket and adjust the ignition further.
To be continued.

 

[BudW]

There are not many locations to hide electrical components underhood of an FMJ – but under the battery is one location. That area is also hard to get access too for repairs.

I might recommend findings an electrical relay box from another car (any newer car – just pick one) and retrofit it to yours. Aspen500 took one from an Audi (I think) and mounted it close to his battery – but you have a lot of options.

The black box just Right of the battery (attaches to one of the battery J-bolts).


If you are going this route, I might recommend also using battery voltage and a relay to power your headlights with (a relay for low and another for high beams) – for you will have a lot of brighter headlights and a lot less load on the headlight switch.

Both relays are not easy to hide – but if retrofitting a relay box under hood – you might as well go all out.

Matter of fact, for anyone who daily drives an FMJ vehicle, at night – I highly recommend installing headlight relays.
Those who drive occasionally – it is still highly recommended – but troublesome to hide the relays.
BudW

 

[SixBanger]

Alright, thanks! Good tip for using relay switches for headlights. I own the lighting was still quite bright. In comparison with older motorcycles with a 6 volt connection ... It was more that others saw you that you could see the road well.

 

[Duke5A]

I really like that box. I've been junkyard browsing for years looking for something like that.

 

[SixBanger]

The chinees friends have also an relay and fuse box. But maybe I can find some thing at the local junkyard. Also for looking for fans.

US $9.71 19% OFF|Vehemo Zekering Auto DC 12 V 20A 6 Relais Blok 5 Road Voor Gondel Autoverzekering Houder Automobiel Duurzaam in Vehemo Zekering Auto DC 12 V 20A 6 Relais Blok 5 Road Voor Gondel Autoverzekering Houder Automobiel Duurzaam van Zekeringen op AliExpress.com | Alibaba Groep

 

[SixBanger]

I had some problems driving petrol, this was on the carburetor (float stayed open, there was mess between the seal).
I disassembled this time.
However, after assembly I got a backfire on petrol. What did not happen before. The result was that I also get backfire on LPG.

The completely disassembled and liquid exhaust gasket (paste) placed on the mounting gasket. And then this hardened the outlet paste.
This I have also applied before, got him gas-tight. What then resulted in a smoother engine.

Only I do not get gas-tight anymore. What can trigger a backfire.
Never had a backfire before. It can also be combined with the poorer mix and the new waste spark ignition.

I can not currently test the original ignition.

Someone tips / experience? Thanks!

 

[SixBanger]

Car running on original ignition again. Seems that the waste spark ignition need very good intake seal. Difficult to get a repeatable seal.
Order new mounting gasket. Try it then again.