Headers + Quiet Mufflers = OK for daily driver?

[89.Fifth]

What do you think? My car is a grocery getter and road trip car. But of course I want quicker groceries and "shorter" road trips.

 

[Oldiron440]

The old Hemi muffler comes to mind, 2.5 in and out, very nice tone, you can't go wrong.

 

[AJ/FormS]

my Barracuda is an in-your-face- HO 367 4speed with TTIs and full-length dual 3 inch tubes and Dynomax 3-pass muffs.
I used to put up to 10,000 miles a year on her, now totaling over 100,000 miles .
At 65 mph, all I hear is the wind noise...... from my open windows.... cuz she has no AC,lol. 65=2230rpm with my overdrive.
I have never been stopped for a noisy exhaust.

 

[89.Fifth]

my Barracuda is an in-your-face- HO 367 4speed with TTIs and full-length dual 3 inch tubes and Dynomax 3-pass muffs.
I used to put up to 10,000 miles a year on her, now totaling over 100,000 miles .
At 65 mph, all I hear is the wind noise...... from my open windows.... cuz she has no AC,lol. 65=2230rpm with my overdrive.
I have never been stopped for a noisy exhaust.

Thanks for the input. Do you know what model number muffler you had?

 

[Jonnyuma]

If you can find headers that fit and don't break the bank, by all means go for it.
I've gone both ways: stock manifolds with a custom 3" single Flowmaster due to a lack of suitable headers and screwey gas tank placement.
Also done headers w cheap Summit turbo mufflers.
Currently have headers and glass-packs on my truck.
The loudest was the 3" single and even it was pretty quiet, just sounded wicked.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Thanks for the input. Do you know what model number muffler you had?

They came with the TTI system so no pn, sorry.
But almost any 3-pass muffler will be pretty quiet with a tailpipe out the back. Cheaper ones are often louder, but they don't last very long, maybe 2 years tops. My Dynomaxers were new in 1999, and they're still not holed, and still doing the job.

 

[Oldiron440]

I've had the Summit turbo's on my Ford for 15 + years of summer driving with no problems.

 

[Dr Lebaron]

On my DD F/A, I have the Canadian Y pipe down straight into a Magnaflow 40 and out a tailpipe.
Makes the engine breath out better.

The 40 is loud, but I just say in a thick Australian accent 'Last of the carbureted V8's'

 

[Aspen500]

The only thing you may notice with headers is a "tinging" sound that cast iron manifolds muffle. Maybe that's the wrong word to use. I'm talking about the exhaust pulses and the sound that transmits through the pipe. Better headers with thicker gauge pipe will reduce the sound somewhat. You can always tell a car with headers just by listening near the engine.

 

[jasperjacko]

The only thing you may notice with headers is a "tinging" sound that cast iron manifolds muffle. Maybe that's the wrong word to use. I'm talking about the exhaust pulses and the sound that transmits through the pipe. Better headers with thicker gauge pipe will reduce the sound somewhat. You can always tell a car with headers just by listening near the engine.

I used to think that noise was an exhaust leak.

 

[Duke5A]

Dual 2.25" is enough to support 400 HP. If you're motor isn't producing anything more than that then it's only going to be louder with no additional benefit at a bigger diameter. Whether you find 3" exhaust enjoyable on a daily driver is really a matter of preference. It'll be damn loud at night if you live in a subdivision or something like that.

Avoid turn downs at the axle like the plague. Shift the tank over a strap and make the filler neck longer by sleeving it with filler neck hose. I ran turn-downs for a number of years - eventually the reverb off of the pavement and the dust clouds it would kick up got me to the tank modification. Nothing worse than spending three hours detailing your car only to have a self induced cloud of crap engulf it.

 

[Kermit]

I daily drive my aspen wagon, 2k miles on it in 1 month. The previous owner installed headers, with true duals, and I absolutely hate it. I would trade someone for their manifolds/single exhaust in a heartbeat.

Don't get me wrong, it sounds good...really good....except when things start to loosen up, and they will. Then it sounds like shit. It also sounds bad when they ever so slightly start tapping the steering/shift linkage. Or when they scrape going over a speed bump, hitting an unseen pothole, and hitting a dip too fast. Not to mention I have to remove the drivers side header to change the spark plugs.

Just thought I could offer an opinion from someone who sits in traffic every day in his fmj. I am also sure that these are really cheap headers, definitely not Doug's or TTI quality, so a higher quality header might fit better. I'm not willing to spend the $$$ to find out.

Jared

 

[Duke5A]

I second this! Reading this is giving me PTSD. Had long tube Hooker's on the car and with factory torsion bars it is extremely easy to scrape the ground with them. I've never run anything like Doug's or TTI, but if it goes under the steering link I would stay away from it. Shorty headers that are swept back (not block huggers, they won't clear the steering box) are what I would be looking at. Your manifolds should be good up to around 300 HP though. There was a magazine that ran a shootout on headers vs manifolds using a 300 HP crate 360 and the difference wasn't really enough to warrant the headaches you're going to have.

 

[80mirada]

Doug's and TTI are both above the steering and are of heavy construction

 

[AJ/FormS]

And mine have been no headache at all, after the minor initial adjustments. They even hold their screw torque for years.
Duke
I don't want to contradict you,Duke, but as I recall,one of those same performance magazines claimed a huge boost to early 340s with headers, over manifolds; and we all know how great those 340 manifolds must be on account of people are paying as much or more for them, as quality headers. I cannot recall the numbers but it was very significant.
But IMO, the reason for that may be hidden in the 340s cam which has 44* (auto) of overlap. As you probably know, headers make long-overlap cams come alive. Once into the 70*s, there can be a heck of a power spike up there............ with headers, that the logs stifle. The 292/292/108 Mopar-FTH cam is a good example, at 76*.

 

[Duke5A]

And mine have been no headache at all, after the minor initial adjustments. They even hold their screw torque for years.
Duke
I don't want to contradict you,Duke, but as I recall,one of those same performance magazines claimed a huge boost to early 340s with headers, over manifolds; and we all know how great those 340 manifolds must be on account of people are paying as much or more for them, as quality headers. I cannot recall the numbers but it was very significant.
But IMO, the reason for that may be hidden in the 340s cam which has 44* (auto) of overlap. As you probably know, headers make long-overlap cams come alive. Once into the 70s, there can be a heck of a power spike up there............ with headers, that the logs stifle. The 292/292/108 Mopar-FTH cam is a good example, at 76*.

You kidding? I love conversations like this!

Here is the article from Hot Rod: Exhaust on a Mopar 300hp Crate Engine - Tech Articles - Mopar Muscle Magazine

The numbers are in the captions in the gallery. They used a Magnum 360 crate motor rated at 300 HP. To sum it up:

• 318 Manifolds: 311 HP - 403 ft/lbs
• 340 HI PO Manifolds: 315 HP - 409 ft/lbs
• Block Hugger shorties 1 5/8": 322 HP - 416 ft/lbs
• Long tube 1 5/8": 319 HP - 424 ft/lbs

I honestly think the early 340 manifolds are all the rage because of the resto crowd and reputation they had being an exclusive performance part. They really aren't all that great though.

If the op's 318 is a factory cam'd motor then it isn't anywhere near 300 HP, so the differences listed will be even less. Even at 300 HP, the difference between the best and worst is only 8 HP and 21 ft/lbs. Not anything you'll feel on the butt dyno. Considering the numbers and hassles of long tubes I would say shorties for the win, but really, anything under 300 HP then just keep the 318 manifolds.

 

[89.Fifth]

It's funny you know. I heard so much debate on either side of the muffler vs header thing. It seems like everybody has different evidence and it probably boils down to what engine you're running. Maybe it makes a difference on a factory motor and not a loping 1/4 miler. Or the other way around. I don't know. I guess I'd have to find out.

I'll tell you though that I wouldn't get anything besides TTI or similar quality. None of that under the link stuff. Not with the potholes around here.

Eventually I want good breathing heads, mild mild cam, and the exhaust/intake to support it.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Duke
The point I was trying to make is that magazines are not my authority in test matters. One says one thing, and another says another. But I do want to make these points;

TTIs, made 327@4700, compared to all the logs from 311 to 315; that is from a high of +5.1% increase to a low of +3.8%, and an average of +4.4%
But without the other dyno data, there is no way to see the truth.
The next bigger size cam will also make about 5% more power, so, in this case
The headers are worth about one cam size at 4700, maybe 4900. And without a corresponding boost in compression, may lose power in the lower rpms, whereas, not so with the headers. I'd rather have the headers than the cam, the average power will be up, and for a streeter, this is pretty important, cuz how often do we buzz 'em up to 4700,lol.

 

[Duke5A]

Duke
The point I was trying to make is that magazines are not my authority in test matters. One says one thing, and another says another. But I do want to make these points;

TTIs, made 327@4700, compared to all the logs from 311 to 315; that is from a high of +5.1% increase to a low of +3.8%, and an average of +4.4%
But without the other dyno data, there is no way to see the truth.
The next bigger size cam will also make about 5% more power, so, in this case
The headers are worth about one cam size at 4700, maybe 4900. And without a corresponding boost in compression, may lose power in the lower rpms, whereas, not so with the headers. I'd rather have the headers than the cam, the average power will be up, and for a streeter, this is pretty important, cuz how often do we buzz 'em up to 4700,lol.

You mean the torque and HP peak RPM numbers? They're in the article, but I didn't include them seeing as we're talking about such a mild combo and the peaks are all within 500 RPM of each other.

Also, I don't see why magazine tests should be discounted so as long as you know the limitations and how to properly apply the results to other applications. The peak numbers for this debate are really not relevant, but the difference between each exhaust setup is what I was looking for. Honestly, at such low power levels and differences we're debating over semantics, especially taking into consideration the car is a suburban grocery getter, long-tube headers (or any header at all) simply aren't worth the minuscule gain when compared to price and headache.

Sure, you could go for TTI headers which would eliminate the headache part and gain a respectable amount of power (20 HP), but at $900, why? I doubt the op is willing to fork over that amount of money given the application, and even if he was there are bigger gains to be had elsewhere for that cash.

I still stand by my original statement: given the usage and power level the op is better with sticking with 318 manifolds. The only reason I could see going headers is if he wants a setup that can support future upgrades.

Is it Spring yet? I want to pull the car out and start driving it. lol.

 

[Oldiron440]

I'd never knock a guy for headers on his daily driver.