Sorry in advance. Parts quality rant

[Aspen500]

I know this is about crappy parts but EV's and batteries were mentioned, and it reminded my about an EV story. The shop I used to work at had a customer who bought a new EV F-150. He was all proud of how much money he was going to save on gas and maintenance,,,,after spending $92,000 for the truck. Then last winter he hooked his 4 place trailer up loaded with 4 snowmobiles, along with 4 people and their gear in the truck and headed up north. They left after work on a Friday evening, so it was dark out. The temps were single digits and there it was snowing so headlights on, heater cranked wide open, rear defroster on, and occasional windshield wiper use. The truck had a 100% charge when they left. Barely made it over half way there (roughly 60 miles) before the batteries were so low, the truck went into power saver mode and they had to stop for the night AND find a place to charge the bleeping thing. So, how do you like your electric truck now? When I heard that, couldn't keep from laughing.

Oh yeah, on top of the $92K, he also had to upgrade his electrical service from 100 amps to 200 amps, and then have a charger installed. Roughly $4,000 for all that, and he bought the truck to save money on gasoline. Anybody understand that kind of logic????????????

Anyways, just an amusing story for the day.

 

[Justwondering]

I'll continue the hijack...
Got a friend in one of the flyover states and he raises crops on a large scale (large to me) -- a little over a 1,000 acres including what he leases.
He's been the go to guy to 'field test' new tractors for years. Large enough to give it a good test, small enough to ensure there is plenty of communication back and forth with the company reps.
He was asked to test an EV tractor.
Big tractor, pulls not just a 26 foot bat-wing shredder like mine does, but double that seeder/plow/etc. Takes some oomph to run.
He asked a few questions:
1. Can I run the tractor for a full day -- lights on heater/ac as needed. We start before daylight and might not finish til 10 pm. When the crops are ready (sugar content, protein level, size, whatever), then you have a small window to get everything out of the field before it degrades.
2. If I have a problem in the field, will your rep come out immediately or be available immediately to determine the problem and fix it? (Assuming its a software issue).
3. When his diesel tractor needs more diesel, he has a truck with a big tank that comes to the field and refill it so they can keep running til the crop comes in. How does that work with an electric tractor?
4. If the tractor dies and needs repair that can't be done in the field, how do you tow this massive dead weight (alluding to the battery weight I'm sure)?
5. He has 400 acres leased just across the county line from his place (about 17 miles down the road), how much battery power does it take to get over to the other place and will he have enough power left to work the 400 acres?
6. If there is a 'mobile' ev filling station, how long does it take to recharge the battery? With a diesel, its an hour or less.

They had no complete answers and said 'hadnt figured that part out yet' on other answers.

Just sayin -- designing an EV car and mandating it for every case doesn't always consider that all use cases are not the same.

He never bothered to ask the price for the tractor, just told them he wasn't interested in testing their EV tractor at this time.

JW

 

[Aspen500]

Stupid part is, to charge the batteries in the field, they'd tow a big diesel generator behind a diesel powered truck (or tractor) out to the dead EV tractor. Electric semis are next. Drive a couple hundred miles (maybe), stop 8 hours for a recharge , go another 200 miles, stop for 8 hours.........How big are the battery packs going to be to haul 80,000 lbs even from one state to the next, much less, for "random" example, Texas to Wisconsin. The numbers just don't add up. I give 5 years for them to figure out electric vehicles just aren't practical now for the same reason they weren't 120 years ago.

 

[kkritsilas]

We have the same brain dead politicians making the same stupid decisions up here. You know the idiotic "half of car sales must be electric by 2030", "no more gasoline cars by 2030" type proclamations of absolute stupidity as there are everywhere else. And that is exactly what they are. I have done some basic calculations, and can say that any time the overall car population becomes 20& or more electric, there won't be enough electricity to go around.

Everybody thinks its just generation capacity, and that is one part of it. For a 20% electric car population, there will need to be around 5-6 new power generation facilities. And you can hear it now "wind generators", "solar cell farms". Guess what, we have some of the largest wind generators on the planet, because there is a lot of wind in this part of the world. And will all of that capacity, they still generate less than 1% of the required demand, today, and that is on a good day. On a bad day, it is less than a tenth of that. By a bad day, I don't just mean when the wind isn't blowing, its the same when the wind is blowing too hard, as they stop the wind generators when it is blowing too hard as well. Solar cell farms are worse; they generate zero at night, and being where we are in the world, during the winter, we sort of get some snow around here that cuts power generation efficiency way down, not to mention that when it is snowing, there usually isn't much sunshine. And, when it is snowing, is when demand increases as well.

The part that nobody is talking about is that most neighbourhoods aren't wired, at this time, for rapid chargers. Most new construction has 100A service to each house; many of the older neighbourhoods are wired for 60A service. A rapid charger needs 200A-800A, depending on how fast you want to recharge your electric vehicle. There is some overcapacity in the power grid, but it won't allow for 200A (the lowest rapid charger load) for more than a few houses in a neighbourhood. As soon as that limit is reached in a neighbourhood, the real issues start to arise. Like needing all new cabling with increased wire gauges, new transformers, circuit breaskers, switch gear, all the way down to the power substations needing to be substantially upgraded. No politician will ever talk about this, because entirely re-wiring a power grid will be insanely expensive. This is above and beyond the lack of power generation capacity.

That is not the end of it. We don't know if there will be enough lithium to support the building of the batteries for all of the electric vehicles, and we don't know how to efficiently recycle the used battery packs when they are replaced, or when cars are scrapped.

If we do move on from gasoline (which to me is highly doubtful), the majority of cars will be hydrogen fuelled, not electric. after all, hydrogen is not polluting, is it? Well, in the sense that it doesn't generate any carbon gases, yes. In terms of global warning, it certainly is, as the byproduct of hydrogen being burned is water vapour, and water vapour is the single biggest contributor to global warming of anything, not greenhouse gasses. Politicians don't talk about that, nor do the greenies, but it is true.

 

[Aspen500]

Solar panels..........Maybe in some places but where I live, the time of year you need the most electricity and heat is winter. Let's do some math. Usually from November through March, the sun only shines 1 or 2 days a week. The other 5 or 6 days are overcast. On the rare clear day, the sun is low in the sky and is only out 7 or 8 hours total. No way a whole house roof covered in panels would make even 10% of what you need. Around here, wind turbines are useless. There's normally not all that much wind. At night, when you need the most power, it's calm 80% of the time. On the flip side, the two GIGANTIC (and one older and smaller) coal power plants 5 miles south of my house produce power day and night no matter the season, weather or temperature without fail.

 

[Mikes5thAve]

This is why I think the push should have been to hybrids instead but they're still bad to the EV croud because they burn gas.

The biggest problem I have is when they call them zero emissions because they're not. They're only moving emissions from the driving side to the manufacturing side and power generation is a whole other problem.

Cars in the last 20+ years have very low emissions numbers to begin with and if anything the pandemic also showed us if they really care they should push working from home where possible. The lock downs git rid of traffic and cities with smog problems noted it disappeared.

 

[AMC Diplomat]

Shoot, they had propane powered Diplomats and I know they made 318's that ran on natural gas. The goofy climate "problem" has been solved a million times over and people reject the answers for stupid ideas. By their own "logic" bulk carriers and jet engines are the real problem, but no, let's take it out on the little guy because billionaires need to make money selling iPhones and clothes from Old Navy.

 

[Justwondering]

kkritsilas -- amen! I've had so many discussions about emissions from 'clean' energy. When I bring up the water vapor I generally get a 'deer in the headlight' response.
Got a friend (electrician) who works out at the nuclear powerplant just south of Fort Worth. He has basically said the same thing you did in your post. Ageing infrastructure, inconsistent supply side (wind/sun), demand will outstrip supply (not big enough lines/transformers), but none of the 'real' implementation problems are sexy to deal with.
So they are ignored and everyone is surprised when the lines spark and catch fire, rolling blackouts occur, and you have a several month 'delay' while you wait for the upgrade to service.
Swapping a battery pack ... lol can't imagine what that core charge would be.
Did hear that musk was transitioning the lower end EV cars back to nickel/iron batteries cause it was cheaper and easier to acquire than the lithium. Also, something about fire hazard on lithium - fire departments are geared with water and lithium reignites easily.
But ... I'm sticking with gas and if I have to change, I'll shift over to Mules. Smarter and stronger than horses. Too bad closest grocery store is 25 miles (one-way) in the distance. rotflmao

JW

PS Ele115 -- sorry to hijack your thread ...

 

[MoparDan]

I know this is about crappy parts but EV's and batteries were mentioned, and it reminded my about an EV story. The shop I used to work at had a customer who bought a new EV F-150. He was all proud of how much money he was going to save on gas and maintenance,,,,after spending $92,000 for the truck. Then last winter he hooked his 4 place trailer up loaded with 4 snowmobiles, along with 4 people and their gear in the truck and headed up north. They left after work on a Friday evening, so it was dark out. The temps were single digits and there it was snowing so headlights on, heater cranked wide open, rear defroster on, and occasional windshield wiper use. The truck had a 100% charge when they left. Barely made it over half way there (roughly 60 miles) before the batteries were so low, the truck went into power saver mode and they had to stop for the night AND find a place to charge the bleeping thing. So, how do you like your electric truck now? When I heard that, couldn't keep from laughing.

Oh yeah, on top of the $92K, he also had to upgrade his electrical service from 100 amps to 200 amps, and then have a charger installed. Roughly $4,000 for all that, and he bought the truck to save money on gasoline. Anybody understand that kind of logic????????????

Anyways, just an amusing story for the day.

You CAN'T use logic with environmentalists, all they care about is that everybody believes what they say, do what they say, and never question any of it

 

[kkritsilas]

The politicians (around the world) are pandering to the "greenies/Environmentalists" in order to get votes. I know this is what they do (its their living after all), but some basic logic (need I say, common sense) needs to be applied to every policy. If you want to believe what I said above is full of garbage, you can, but all you have to do is look at California. Multiple times, the state governor has told people to NOT RECHARGE their electric vehicles, and this was last year, so it had nothing to do with flooding, or droughts, or fires. California simply could not import enough electrical power. Two points, if somebody had the common sense to see them:

1. There wasn't enough electricity to import, continent wide. That should have sent up alarm bells, as the electrical car population is below 10%, even in California, which by far has a higher population of electric cars anywhere in the world, and the next logical thing to do is to ask: What happens if the electric car population goes to 20-30%?.

2. Even if the electricity were available, the ability of the long distance power lines to bring it in in that amount is in doubt. Again, somebody should be asking: What happens with an electric car population reaches 20-30%?

I have seen, as many have, the picture of the Prius with an electrical generator strapped to the back bumper in order to get around the recharge ban. Evidently, California will be banning generators next year to prevent the problem. Never mind that stand by generators are required in times of natural disasters and longer term power black outs, at least there won't be any greenhouse gases emitted.

Brings up the joke: I can't afford the price of gasoline, it is so high. I will just buy a $100K electric car to address that issue.

All of this is because people can't seem to differentiate between a political cause ("global warming"), and genuine science (the real reasons the weather is changing).

 

[Aspen500]

The politicians (around the world) are pandering to the "greenies/Environmentalists" in order to get votes. I know this is what they do )its their living after all), but some basic logic (need I say, common sense) needs to be applied to every policy. If you want to believe what I said above is full of garbage, you can, but all you have to do is look at California. Multiple times, the state governor has told people to NOT RECHARGE their electric vehicles, and this was last year, so it had nothing to do with flooding, or droughts, or fires. California simply could not import enough electrical power. Two points, if somebody had the common sense to see them:

1. There wasn't enough electricity to import, continent wide. That should have sent up alarm bells, as the electrical car population is below 10%, even in California, which by far has a higher population of electric cars anywhere in the world, and the next logical thing to do is to ask: What happens if the electric car population goes to 20-30%?.

2. Even if the electricity were available, the ability of the long distance power lines to bring it in in that amount is in doubt. Again, somebody should be asking: What happens with an electric car population reaches 20-30%?

I have seen, as many have, the picture of the Prius with an electrical generator strapped to the back bumper in order to get around the recharge ban. Evidently, California will be banning generators next year to prevent the problem. Never mind that stand by generators are required in times of natural disasters and longer term power black outs, at least there won't be any greenhouse gases emitted.

Brings up the joke: I can't afford the price of gasoline, it is so high. I will just buy a $100K electric car to address that issue.

All of this is because people can't seem to differentiate between a political cause ("global warming"), and genuine science (the real reasons the weather is changing).

AMEN!

Last evening I heard all sorts of sirens. Turns out it was for a car fire on the freeway, a couple miles south of my house. A Tesla, just driving along, burst into flames. Since the wind was coming from the south, I could smell it. Talk about STINK. Combination of burning plastic, rubber, electrical and I don't know what. I mean it smelled bad. The plume of black smoke was thick. But they were "saving the environment" by driving an EV. On the rare occassion a gas powered car starts on fire, at least the fire dept can put it out easily, or if caught soon enough, a fire extinguisher. On an EV, about all they can do is keep the fire from spreading to other things. Of course, a litium fire is so quick and intense that even if they get there in 5 minutes from the 911 call, there's nothing left to extinguish anyways. Once a lithium battery pack starts burning, there's not much that can be done to stop it. EnvironMENTALists............

 

[Ele115]

Thursday I bought one of those little Bernzomatic butane torches. They come with a soldering tip and I use them a lot for soldering wiring. I use it all the time really. I used it to make some test wires Friday for 15 minutes, then Saturday I did a few small wires with it and now it won't light again no matter what I try. One more thing to return. Taking stuff back is just about a full time job

 

[Ele115]

For you electric transit fans:

Fire Officials Issue Warning After Electric Bike Sparks Blaze, Killing a Child and a Teenager