79 Aspen Fuel Pump Change, Location

[David Clark]

Greetings All,

So I am working on the Aspen today and is it just me, or is the Fuel Pump almost impossible to get to. I Changed the Pump out in the Dart in about 10 minutes. From UNDERNEATH. Looking at the Aspen and I can't even SEE the Fuel Pump from Underneath, and looking at it from the Top, I can't even SEE the Mounting bolts for the dang thing. Let alone get my hand or a wrench in there. Am I missing something here. HOW do you guys Get this Fuel Pump off?? I don't remember them being this hard when I was 18 yrs old and bought my first Aspen.

And What MORON decided (from where it mounts on the Dart I have on the top of the inner fender) to move the Ignition Coil to right next to the Fuel Pump??

I really Like these Slant 6 Engines but I Swear, if I see one more web page that says the Distributor, Fuel Pump are EASY to get to, I am gonna blow my top. I can't be the Only one that things those two items are a Pain in the ASSSSSSSSS to get to. Very Little Clearance on that side of the engine if you ask me.
--- Post updated ---
2 Hours later the Fuel Pump is Finally off and out of Daylight. Not sure how everyone else's are setup but whoever the engineer was that designed the way mine is set up needs his ass kicked SEVERELY. Had to remove the Lower Radiator Hose, the Alternator and 2 Piece Alternator Bracket (this took the longest because whoever designed this bracket was a total Jerk off and this is where the Ignition Coil Clam is located, RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE two Nuts that hold the bracket on, and such two nuts are those little slightly oval out of shape LOCKNUTS, so not spinning the damn things off when you get them loose). And Maybe it's just I don't have all the right extensions or whatever but had to pull the full bump bolts off with a wrench because no matter what combination of extensions, ujoints or whatever, would not clear the fuel pump or the Motor mount or some other gawd forsaken thing.

Sorry to VENT like this but Holy Hell, the fuel pump on my Dart took 15 minutes tops. This is just NUTS.

 

[Jack Meoff]

Yep. Big difference between doing a V8 and a slant. Glad you got it done.

 

[David Clark]

Hell, Big difference between doing a /6 Dart and a /6 Aspen. BIG difference.

Still not finished yet, ran out of daylight but I did get it off. Tomorrow Running into town to pick up a welder from a friend in preparation of doing some body work on the aspen. Will get the Fuel Pump on and then run a Fuel line to a Gas Can to see if I can get it up and running anyway. I am also going to re-position the Ignition coil to somewhere other than right next to the fuel pump.

Has Anyone Seen Deconstructor Jim Lately, I came up with the money for that Trunk Pan he has a bit early if he takes paypal, I messaged him on Monday but haven't heard bback from him yet.

 

[Jack Meoff]

Jim's a busy lad sometimes but he'll get back to you.

 

[Aspen500]

You just gotta have patience! After 32+ years as an auto tech, I've learned that's the most important part. You should try newer cars. Just to change the oil filter on certain ones is an adventure in removing other parts, 3rd degree burns and lacerations. Patience........Fortunatley I have the patience of 10 normal men but I understand your venting!

 

[F body Deconstructor Jim]

Try changing the oil pump in the slant six F's. You have to jack up one side of the engine for clearance.

 

[David Clark]

Oh, I understand completely, the Engineer's that design these Cars Design them with no thought in mind if a part needs replaced, They are designed with ease of assembly at the plant. I've been a "Backyard" Mechanic (Never bothered with the ASE certification stuff) since age 16 (now 43) and then the Army as a Diesel Mechanic as well. Just Venting as all. Still in Shock that it took almost 2 hours and too much crap removed just to change a Fuel Pump, That's just asinine. Why didn't they leave the set up they had in the Dart's and Valiants that was PROVEN to work. The Coil Mounting Bracket was the Biggest Pain in the ass in changing this Fuel Pump out. Why didn't they leave the Coil on the inner fender like the Darts and Valiants. Makes no Sense to me whatsoever. UGH UGH UGH.

 

[Aspen500]

Yeah, a guy has to vent every now and again!
From 2007-2012 I was stupid enough to be an Audi tech (worst 5 1/2 years of my life btw). Replacing the starter on a 2007 Audi Q7 4.2L V-8. Step one, disconnect battery. Step two, LOWER POWERTRAIN OUT OF VEHICLE (engine, trans, front suspension, steering, etc). Step 3, support engine with engine hoist and remove engine mount bracket. Step 4, remove 3 bolts and starter and reverse procedure. Warranty paid 18 hours and it took all 18 of them too. What were they thinking? Good thing starters rarely fail on Audi's.
Replace steering rack on 2008 S8 5.2L V-10. Step one, lower powertrain out of vehicle....................
Finally got smart and left for an excellent job at an indy shop. Love it there and plan to retire from there. Only regret is not trying to get in there after the Ford dealer I was at from 1986-2007 closed all of a sudden one late September day in 2007, without warning I might add. Still have to deal with the engineering disasters but at least it's a fun place to work with great people (no arguing, no stress, no pressure, everyone gets along excellent and I don't say I work FOR someone, it's more like working WITH them.) Plus, it's not flat-rape either which takes most of the stress and pressure off. Funnily enough, you get twice the work done, and done right the first time when you're not worried about making rate. But I digress and go off topic, sorry!

 

[David Clark]

Hey No problem on going off topic LOL, That's what makes it all fun.

Yeah, Gawd only knows what the hell these engineer's are thinking. I think a good portion of them are on Crack.

 

[Dr Lebaron]

F/M/J are a piece of cake to work on compared to any 90's and beyond jelly bean.
I just did the alternator belts on my F/A, took a 1/2 hr.
Took me longer to get a matched set.

 

[Aspen500]

As compared to the accy drive belt on a 6.0L Powerstroke Super Duty Ford. If everything goes right and it's been changed once before, 2 hours. If it's never been apart, add another 1/2 hour on to that. Have to carefully cut the fan shroud in half without damaging the flanges you use to bolt it back together with afterwards. What WERE they thinking? Oh, better still if it has dual alternators. Then you add another belt to the mix. AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then again, I guess that's my job and what I get paid to do but still............
On the other end of the scale, timing chains on newer GM 3.6L (they like to stretch big time). On front wheel drive you have to drop the powertrain out for access. Amazingly, that takes all of about 1 1/2 hours to do (like on a Chevy Equinox). Takes longer to do the chains and guides than it does to remove and install the powertrain. It's almost like it was actually engineered to come apart logically. Some engineer screwed up and probably lost his job over it! lol

 

[Dr Lebaron]

Just the headlight bulbs and the battery can be an adventure in a post 90's jelly bean.

Then there's 'British Engineering'
Get a Rolls and learn all about it, like 14 bleed points for the brakes.

 

[David Clark]

Oh, don't get me wrong fella's, I enjoy working on the old A, B, F, and M Bodies but still, there are those things that just make ya think, WTF were they thinking. After I got the Fuel pump off the other day (It's on now and plan to get it fired up today hopefully) and the wife got home with the Dart, I popped her hood and compared the two side by side. The Alternator Set up in the dart is soooo much simpler and ROOMIER than the Aspen. This Two Piece bottom alternator Bracket support on the aspen is the stupidest damn thing I have ever seen, it blocks off access to the fuel pump on mine because of the Ignition Coil Mount that is on the rear of it. And they added a tab to the bracket (the Dart is a single piece bracket but almost identical) just above the rear nut holding it on. WTF were they thinking. On the Dart, I can get my Whole hand and 12 ratchets in there to get the fuel pump off, either from above or Below, But on the aspen, you can't even get to or see the Fuel pump from below.

And don't even get me started on the Post 90's SHIT. My Mini Van still has the check engine light on because the EGR valve went bad on. Have had the EGR Valve for over a month now and still don't want to replace it because I just don't feel like taking half the engine off to get to ONE FRIGGIN BOLT of the two that hold it on. One of the reasons I am tracking down a few of these older cars is for the ease of working on them versus this new crap. Yeah, we'll keep the Mini Van for Cross country Trips to visit family and all, mostly for the room it has in it, but these older ones will become our Daily Drivers now.

 

[Aspen500]

Some of the "engineering" problems come from the fact that one group does the engine, another does the body, another the chassis, etc, and it's like they don't talk to each other. If you have the engine out, things may look just fine but put it in the car (or truck) with all the other stuff from the other dept's and, well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,we end up with things that are just plain inaccessible.

Nothing to do with Fbody but have you looked under the hood of a newer Ford Super Duty with the 6.7L diesel? Oh---------------my------------cow. It's full top to bottom, side to side and front to back.

 

[David Clark]

LOL, I'll stick to my 89 Chevy Cheyenne 3500 Dually with the 6.2 in it. I can have a picnic under the hood while working on that one.
--- Post updated ---
Well, I got her up and running today. Got a few of the parts replaced and Oil Change done before starting her up, new fuel filter and Running her off a Gas Can by the Front tire until I can get Deconstructor Jim to get back to me on payment and shipping for that trunk pan. Brand new Fuel Tank and Straps for it sitting in the front seat for now LOL.

Clutch refuses to disengage though. I've played with the shifter while it's running for about 10 minutes and either I can't find Neutral or the Clutch plates are rusted together. (Remember, it's been sitting idle for 10 yrs). Everytime I let out the Clutch, the rear wheels spin no matter where I have the shifter. (3 speed with Overdrive gear, lift up to go into reverse)

UGH