Hello from an old Mopar fan from Florida

[ruppster]

Hi everyone,
Long time Mopar owner but a couple of years ago I bought my an FMJ car. So I thought it was about time I joined the forum here as I have some ideas for a few mods and have many questions. First off let me introduce the car that started my trip here. It's a 1981 Imperial.

http://www.dodge-semis.com/1981Imperial/

She received a first place trophy in the very first show I entered her in to. I have some pics of that show at http://www.dodge-semis.com/CS/TV2012/. I've entered it in to a few other shows since then but no luck. Had a lot of fun though. She hasn't been running right so I parked her for the better part of the last year but now I have some money coming that I can spend on her to fix that problem. Also want to rebuild the front suspension as there's something worn out in the steering system.

As far as the running issues not sure if it's carb or ignition related yet. The factory fuel injection system is long gone and it has a thermoquad intake manifold. The problem is is that the last owner put an Eldebrock square bore carb on it with a one inch thick adapter. This is causing the air cleaner to hit the padding on the underside of the hood. Would love to convert the engine over to a MPFI system from a mid 90's Dodge truck but the barrel shaped intake is too tall. I'm currently trying to get the parts together to test to see if I can modify a stock two barrel intake to use the fuel injectors and throttle body from the MPFI setup. I can't use a 1990-1991 TBI setup as the TBI throttle body is even taller then the current carb/adapter combo. And I really don't want to use an aftermarket TBI setup as it has Chevy parts. So I'm hoping to put together something that uses standard Mopar parts. Will do a separate thread for it if I get it to work.

Part of what's not helping her running status is that when it was converted to carb someone installed an electronic ignition module and wired it up like you would see on a 1973-1975 Mopar. When they did this they used vampire taps to splice in to the wires under the hood and I think she's having electrical issues do to the old crimps. Adding insult to injury is they used the original distributor. It's just a fixed sensor, no vacuum advance. So a proper re-wiring of the ignition system (along with a possible MSD ignition module) to get rid of the vampire crimps is also on the list of things to do.

On a different note I've also acquired another Imperial but it's a parts car. Had a fire under the hood. Since I'm trying to keep my primary Imperial as stock as possible my thoughts for the parts car (as it has next to no rust) is to put a Mirada front clip and interior on it and drop in either a stroked small block or a stroked 400 big block. Decisions, decisions.

Anyhow, sorry for the long intro. Hope you guys (and gals) enjoy the pics.

 

[ramenth]

Welcome aboard!

 

[Jack Meoff]

Welcome to the funny farm....beautiful Imp!!!

 

[My imp]

Welcome, nice Imp. I've either done, or am in the process of doing most of the mod.'s to mine that you want to do to yours. RockAuto has the best prices on most parts. Are you going with stock, or urethane bushings? Why the problem with the Chevy parts? Your steering pump & box are Saginaw (GM). Go through the archives, as there are many threads from people that have done just the repairs you ask about.

 

[Mr.Lopar]

Welcome aboard and nice imp

Ad for the ignitition system. As long as it wired properly (although needs redoing) i probably just need to get the correct distributor and tune it right. No need for an msd box.

Also you should be able to go tbi, with the correct intske it should fit under your hood no problem, and in dping so will require a different distributor anyways for the computer

 

[MiradaMegacab]

:icon_thumright:Welcome!!

 

[slant6billy]

Welcome and to reiterate: get a 5 wire mopar harness. You can use the 4 wire box as I just found out. There is a edelbrock intake that is low enough to make life easy ( the performer). I do agree the 1 inch spacer sucks- I have that set up right now. The Imperials are the influence the Lincoln Mark7 &8 used.

 

[bremereric]

Welcome aboard.

 

[jasperjacko]

Ah, yes, welcome!

 

[ruppster]

Welcome, nice Imp. I've either done, or am in the process of doing most of the mod.'s to mine that you want to do to yours. RockAuto has the best prices on most parts. Are you going with stock, or urethane bushings? Why the problem with the Chevy parts? Your steering pump & box are Saginaw (GM). Go through the archives, as there are many threads from people that have done just the repairs you ask about.

Oh I know that there are Saginaw(GM) parts already in the car. Just like how Chevy and Ford 4x4 trucks used New Process (Dodge) transfer cases (now called New Venture). I just want to keep it Mopar as much as possible and Dodge has a nice MPFI system on the 5.2L Magnum engines. Plus I like a challenge.

I plan on using urethane bushings.

Welcome aboard and nice imp

Ad for the ignitition system. As long as it wired properly (although needs redoing) i probably just need to get the correct distributor and tune it right. No need for an msd box.

Also you should be able to go tbi, with the correct intske it should fit under your hood no problem, and in dping so will require a different distributor anyways for the computer

Yeah, the MSD would be overkill for a stock 318/360 and while I know the stock ignition module would be fine I'm kind of partial to the MSD box as I have used them in the past and never had a failure. And as far as the TBI fitting under the hood from what I've seen of the Dodge TBI throttle body it is way too tall. Much taller than a carb and the air cleaner is already hitting the hood with just a one inch adapter plate. So I don't see any way possible that a Dodge TBI would ever fit unless I ran a one inch tall air filter.

As far as the distributor that's why I've held off getting one. I know the MPFI will require one different then one that would work with a carb. So I need to figure out what my final fuel system will be before I get a proper distributor.

Welcome and to reiterate: get a 5 wire mopar harness. You can use the 4 wire box as I just found out. There is a edelbrock intake that is low enough to make life easy ( the performer). I do agree the 1 inch spacer sucks- I have that set up right now. The Imperials are the influence the Lincoln Mark7 &8 used.

Yeah, I've seen the difference between a 4 and 5 wire systems and plan on using a 4 wire box (5 wire setup requires a 4 pin ballast resistor). If I don't go with an MSD 6 ignition module that is. As far as the Performer intake manifold isn't that set up for spreadbore carbs? I already have a spreadbore intake (stock Mopar piece) on the car right now and have to have the spacer/adapter for the Edelbrock carb. Years ago Holley used to make a nice spreadbore carb that was a Thermoquad replacement. Ran one on a 440 powered '77 Ramcharger I used to have and it never gave me any problems. Tried to find another one for the Imperial but it looks like I would have to get a used one and rebuild it. If the MPFI idea doesn't work I just may go with a used spreadbore Holley and dump that one inch thick adapter plate in order to lower the air cleaner.

 

[NoCar340]

Welcome to the board! Nice, clean Y-bod you've got there!

I think the problem with your distributor (and I may be wrong here as I'm really not sure) might be that it has no advance mechanism in it whatsoever. Some of these cars, and later '80s trucks, let the timing be handled completely by the computer other than base, so not only is there no vacuum advance, there isn't even a mechanical advance mechanism under the pickup plate! This actually started in the '70s; I've had a couple of 400 distributors with no advance mechanism. Go get a reman distributor for a '71-'75 high-perf small-block application. Yes, the 340 had electronic in '71 (as did the Hemi; they were the only two). Just toss your old distributor in the box for a core. They'll inspect it just well enough to make sure it's not a shoe or your dog's half-eaten rawhide bone, and give you back your core charge. With the distributor alone, you're well on your way.

There's nothing wrong with the 4-terminal ballast and in most cases you aren't using the high side anyhow (using the 4-pin ECU)... but it's nice to have it if a situation arises when you need it (failed box and all you can find is a 5-pin, which won't run without it). You've obviously had good luck with the MSD-6 so I can't knock you there, but I can tell you that puts you in the minority. I sold 'em for years and they're actually rather failure-prone, much like MSD itself --they went under yet again last year. It's also nice to be able to pop down to the local parts store for replacement parts in the event of a failure, and not have to drop $200 to do it... but if it's just a local weekend cruiser, I guess it's not that big a deal either way. Another good option from both standpoints is the Pertronix Ignitor I. So easy, my dog could wire it if she had thumbs, and I've sold hundreds of them over the years without one single failure. They seem to be freakin' bulletproof. One customer with a '62 409 Impala had a coil wire short to ground, which popped the coil. He replaced the coil and the Ignitor was just fine. It's still running four years later. Lightning from the gods? Not really, but with a good coil it's a pretty impressive performer.

Either way, the Scotch-Loks have got to go! I'd like to punch the guy that invented those things. They have no place in the world except for emergency repairs or the lazy person. I've chased down more electrical problems that were caused by those little bastages than all other wiring maladies combined, and actually know of one vehicle that burned to the ground due to one.

I don't know if Holley still makes that ThermoQuad replacement carb with the right throttle arm, but the QuadraJet replacement is virtually identical other than that. Just get the Chrysler throttle-lever extension (~$10) and bolt it on, and it's perfect. They were both 4165 spread-bores, and I think the jetting was even close if not identical. The only "problem" I see with this swap is giving up 150-200 CFM to the ThermoQuad, as the Holleys were all 650CFM. Well, that and they don't howl like a TQ. Neither does EFI. If you want to go down that road, there are a lot of options out there not using the crappy, locked-down factory systems. Some even bolt to regular four-barrel manifolds without an adapter. They're TBI systems, but completely tuneable. That being said, I've never met a happy Holley Pro-Jection owner, at least not the original non-digital one based around the GM truck-style throttle body, or the larger 900CFM four-barrel copy of it. I've never messed with one, so that could be operator error but I expect dialing in even the simplest EFI takes a little more than twisting white plastic potentiometer shafts. Still, there are newer, better options out there you could explore... and drop your Imperial air-cleaner lid right on top of it all for that stock look.

I hate to burst your bubble, but New Venture was not a renamed New Process. New Venture was a joint venture between Chrysler (New Process) and GM (Muncie) started in 1990. NV transmissions were a product of the Muncie plant. Daimler bought out GM's share in '02, then sold the whole operation in 2005, at which time New Venture ceased to exist. Dodge trucks haven't been built with an NV transmission since, though GM used the NV4500 through 2006. The Muncie plant is long demolished, and the Syracuse New Process plant went dark for good a couple of years ago.

 

[Mr.Lopar]

theres a member on another board that has done tbi swaps in M-bodies, which is essentially the same thing from the firewall forward. I know he has videos of it on you tube, but while looking for his, I found this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84YKsgcJWIs