Ignition system troubles and Questions

Wander Wagon

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Hi Gentlemen, I have a 77 Volare'. Pretty sure it was a lean Burn car that someone else has already removed. It currently has a 340 Intake and an Edelbrock carb also installed by previous owner. It has an electronic Ignition Module, Electronic ignition Distibutor with vaccum advance to Carb Plate, three wire squareback style distributor, and Voltage regulator on Firewall. Recently had Issues that started when it got hot outside ( ambient temps in the 90's ) I started running the AC on the car. Car will fire right up cold, but after driving car for a while, If you turn it off. It will not refire while its Hot. It also quit Charging. I have replaced the Alternator, Voltage Regulator, Ignition Module, and Ignition switch in the column. Its charging again. It also does something else weird.... When you are turning the Ignition switch on or off, The horn will blow just before the "Run "position between "Run" and "Off"....just when the switch is in one spot. It will also shock you in that spot with your hand on switch and other hand on door handle or otherwise grounded to Body. I have pulled the pad off and unconnected the Horn wires and that stopped ( but its weird ). The Ignition switch looked Good with no burn marks or melted wires.... I replaced it anyway but nothing has corrected the Issue. I'm starting to trouble shoot this but had a couple of questions. What is the box on the firewall next to Ballast resistor pretty much in the center of the firewall ? Also, What is this little round thing ?? it was just laying on the intake with two different connectors on the blades ?? something left over from the lean burn stuff ??
Any answers or input is greatly appreciated. I was hoping to drive the wagon to Carlyle next week.....But its not been reliable this past week. It will refire after it cools down. I was getting NO spark from the coil to distributor when it was hot ??
I have a new coil and Ballast resistor to try as well...
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M_Body_Coupe

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The black box on the firewall with the tree-prong connector is either an EGR Delay Timer or an EGR Delay Selenoid, although that being an epoxy selead box I'm thinking it's the Timer.

The round thing is part of the Electric Choke Assist system. Basically there are two types: Single Stage (which is just the round puck) or the Dual Stage (which has the round puck as well as a resistor). The puck itself is spot-welded to a little metal bracket that bolts to a manifold. Looks like that metal bracket was torn off of the puck, which is why you see that little hole in the bottom of the puck.

Anyways, the difference between the two systems is that the Dual Stage differentiates between Summer and Winter requirements (resistor controls the Winter duration), whereas the Single stage is just that, a single mode for both.

The weirdest part I see in your pics is that two-pronged connector on the Electric Choke puck. To me (and my memory is a little fuzzy) that connector looks a lot more like the connector for the windshield washer fluid level sensor....ughhh????
 
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Aspen500

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The flat connector isn't supposed to be on the choke puck. To me it looks like a connector for a low washer fluid sensor (possibly). As for the other things, I'll have to think on them a while.
 

Wander Wagon

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Thanks Guys, If the lean burn system is gone...Is the EGR delay box doing anything ?? is the electric choke assist doing anything. My carb has electric choke on the carb...
 

Mikes5thAve

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The egr box I believe is independent of the computer. But you can get rid of it if you have a vacuum switch on the the front of the intake to interrupt the egr vacuum. It does the same type of thing and won't let vacuum thru till the engine hits a certain temp.

I noticed that too on the choke plug. It might also be for the vacuum amplifier or solenoid. I don't remember what those look like now. It also looks like cruise control plug but that wouldn't be on top of engine. But no, having aftermarket carb with electric choke you can get rid of those parts and connect choke power to where edelbrock recommends.
 

Wander Wagon

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Thanks for the input guys, I worked on the Volare' for a while yesterday.... Went ahead and unwrapped a fair amount of the wiring that had been added when the lean Burn was removed. Fixed some poor splicing & Routing. kept going thru things with the test light etc etc. I replaced Coil and Ballast Resistor as well, But still did not have fire sometimes, so the only thing left was Distributor or pick up.....Realized the signal to coil wasn't pulsing while starting so distributor became suspect. We had another small block factory electronic dist. so we pulled mine. Noticed as soon as it came out it was VERY tight, hardly spun at all. had plenty of Oil on the shaft but it was almost frozen.....Replaced it, and she's been firing great every since !! Going to drive it everyday, and if nothing else goes wrong, will drive it to Carlyle Thursday for the Mopar Nats...
 

BudW

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Most '77 F-bodies did not get Lean Burn (a small amount did, though). Where as most '77 M-bodies did get lean burn (with a small amount that did not). I would be highly surprised if your car did come with Lean Burn.
Your pictures look as if it came without Lean Burn (IMO).

The choke switch should be grounded. The choke switch power source gets constant 12v when car is switched "ON". The power supply for choke switch might be a good 12v source, but is not the correct wire. The correct wire should be a single wire and looks exactly like one going to choke thermostat.
I'm not sure if you can reattach the choke switch bracket back onto the can. If you can, great, but it might be easier to find another choke switch just like the one you have.

Can you take a few more pictures like what you did, above, and post, as well as both sides of the carburetor, please?
BudW
 

Wander Wagon

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Most '77 F-bodies did not get Lean Burn (a small amount did, though). Where as most '77 M-bodies did get lean burn (with a small amount that did not). I would be highly surprised if your car did come with Lean Burn.
Your pictures look as if it came without Lean Burn (IMO).

The choke switch should be grounded. The choke switch power source gets constant 12v when car is switched "ON". The power supply for choke switch might be a good 12v source, but is not the correct wire. The correct wire should be a single wire and looks exactly like one going to choke thermostat.
I'm not sure if you can reattach the choke switch bracket back onto the can. If you can, great, but it might be easier to find another choke switch just like the one you have.

Can you take a few more pictures like what you did, above, and post, as well as both sides of the carburetor, please?
BudW
Hey Bud, My car has been converted to a 340 intake and a Edelbrock (POS) carb... So, I don't need the choke Pot, or the EGR thing on the firewall...Correct. I have both unhooked now, and everything's running fine.

Earl
 

BudW

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If your Edelbrock carburetor has its own choke thermostat, that is not electric, then yes - that choke switch can be tossed. If your carb's choke is electric, then a (switched via ignition) 12v power source is needed.
Edelbrook 1400 Performer.jpg

BudW
 

80CordobaLS

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Some really good advice here, agree with everything.

One thing, which 340 intake are you running - an old Edelbrock LD340 or a factory 340 unit?
 

BudW

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One thing, which 340 intake are you running - an old Edelbrock LD340 or a factory 340 unit?
Part of reason I was wanting some better pictures. The older 340 intake exhaust crossover (or newer 340 intake with EGR nozzles) can be part of the problem.

What is under the air cleaner can tell stories (good, bad or indifferent) for a lot can be hidden under it.
 
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