Windage tray Score for Gator

[slant6billy]

This was a new in the box item and a $40 find. Gator's 340 is gonna need this insurance as he punishes it like politician that won't shut up.

 

[slant6billy]

The seller had a few other mopar items. Such as used Super Comp Headers - $60 bucks, Fairbanks trans shift kit NIB -$40, 360 Magnum head gaskets NIB $30, Magnum 360 to 904 flexplate- $80, and this one is for Gator- Mancini trans to throttle cable NIB. Which means any return visit will be with more cash.

 

[Gator]

Billy thanks for picking that up for my 340 build.I would like to now if any body knows how much parasitic loss of horsepower a windage tray provides

 

[80mirada]

Windage tray should reduce parasitic losses, as long as it is draining

 

[80mirada]

It should reduce parasitic drag, it helps get the flying oil away from the crank

 

[NoCar340]

I would like to now if any body knows how much parasitic loss of horsepower a windage tray provides

Not enough that you would ever notice the difference. Three-quarters of a percent of your peak horsepower would be estimating toward the high side.
The big advantage to a windage tray to the non-racer is in bearing life. It prevents the oil from being aerated by the crankshaft, allowing "solid" oil at the bearings. When the engine is running, the crank is in contact with neither the main nor the rod bearings. Everything is riding on a film of pressurized oil a few thousandths thick. If there are bubbles in that oil, things that aren't supposed to make contact bump into each other, eventually resulting in a permanent knock-knock joke.

 

[slant6billy]

Billy thanks for picking that up for my 340 build.I would like to now if any body knows how much parasitic loss of horsepower a windage tray provides

Just keeping this network strong. That Mancini kickdown/ trans pressure cable is all you dude.

 

[Gator]

I know . I think I'll pick that up .thanks for some info on windage trays. I was reading that the 340 came with windage trays and so did 360 .is there any difference between the 2 with the stroke being different in the 360 or is it just spaced out with washers

 

[M_Body_Coupe]

Not enough that you would ever notice the difference...

Ahh...but I beg to differ...mind you, this is not first-hand proven, rather I'm simply relaying the information contained in the "How to Build Big-Inch Mopar Small Blocks" (https://books.google.ca/books?id=W7jBPAAACAAJ).

Anyways, according to the author, when the stock windage tray is used with STROKER motors (see pg 43) the dyno results show a loss of about 42 hp on a 408" build when a stock oil pan was used. He does also point out that the 360 stock stroke (3.58") also suffers due to this and increases the internal crankcase pressure.

 

[80mirada]

The louvers need to be opened up a little for a 360, and a stock tray was never meant for a 4" crank. They work better when you add a properly fitted crank scraper. The Milodon one works better for 360s and up to a 3.79" stroke. Someone used to offer a unidirectional screen windage tray that worked well on a 4" or longer stroke, don't remember who though.

 

[NoCar340]

I've never noticed the difference after either adding or removing a windage tray from both small and big-block engines including a 340, E58 360, and an E87 440. However, the 4" stroke also introduces a whole different circumstance since the crank's counterweights are now about a quarter-inch closer to the oil and have a much-higher surface speed (and area) at the same RPM. Was the windage tray the only difference? In other words, he used the stock pan in both instances to achieve this 42HP? What was the gross horsepower on the build?

 

[M_Body_Coupe]

...Was the windage tray the only difference? In other words, he used the stock pan in both instances to achieve this 42HP? What was the gross horsepower on the build?

No idea on either of the two points, not listed in the book.

I will add a bit of my personal experience though. On my 360 builds I have opened up the drain-back slots in the windage tray and spaced the tray just a touch further away from the crank (using washers on the applicable main bolts).

 

[NoCar340]

The slots in the aftermarket (MP) piece don't seem to be opened up as far as the OE ones I've had. Easy enough to correct and recommended by just about everyone I've ever known that builds engines.
Don't get me wrong--I'm pro-windage tray--I just don't think that in a mild street build you'll find any appreciable difference on the seat-of-the-pantsometer, nor in quarter-mile performance. Keeping air out of the oil is huge, though.

 

[kkritsilas]

I have always read, and believe to be true, that windage trays (and oil scrapers) are really only effective at high RPM. High RPM is always open to interpretation of course, but I think that noticeable effects really only start at about 5,000 RPM, and get progressively more noticeable as higher RPMs are seen. The implication is that they really don't have much noticeable effect on the street, as you would rarely see 5000 RPM or higher (barring a 4.88 or 5.12 rear end ratio).

 

[NoCar340]

That was why I asked for more specifics on the engine in the book. Windage drag is primarily a high-RPM concern. However, if you're not spinning a 340 to at least six grand you're missing the best part of the party (the factory tach redline was 6,500 from '70-mid-'72).

 

[M_Body_Coupe]

That was why I asked for more specifics on the engine in the book. Windage drag is primarily a high-RPM concern...

Excellent point...nah, no details about the dyno test engine what so ever...however, the book is all about assembling pretty potent stroker SB engines, so I'm guessing we are talking near 500 hp.

I spin my 360 motor to 6500 each WOT shift, used to do that with my old build as well...both motors ran a windage tray, while the current one has a welded in "separator" plate as an attempt to help keep the oil pick-up tube covered and minimize the amount of oil slosh in the pan:

 

[NoCar340]

That's how the pros do it. They will generally use a deeper pan sump with baffles to keep the oil far away from the spinning bits. They may use a scraper as well, but not the type of windage tray we're used to seeing in stock applications. Regardless, I still strongly suggest using one, especially if--like you--the owner likes to spin their engine into the perma-grin zone. My 340s spent a lot of very happy time north of 7,000RPM with no ill effects.